2015 Ledgestone NT presented by Discraft

[sidewinder22]

 

[Aim For The Chains]

PS from a true pro to the whiney players who expect a check'



***the TD is very unselfish, funny how he seems successful eh?

PS*** this is why people like Nikko suck at DG, the business. They don't get it yet expect big things. LOL. What a joke some of these "top pro" disc golfers are the more and more I get into this crap. They are like puppets.

DO WORK!

 

[Pbmercil]

It's funny to see how much people are willing to defend the TD..

Its as if just because he put the event on, that he is exempt from any criticism or wrong doing.
Sorry, but it doesn't work that way.

Actually yes, yes it does. See, nate doesn't owe the disc golf community a freaking thing. NOTHING. He can run his event any way he freaking feels like. He could build a temp course next year with nothing but 100 foot holes and I wouldn't say a damn thing. Nobody is paying him. He does this purely out of love and passion for disc golf. So he can do whatever he wants. It's HIS event. If you don't like it, don't play, don't watch, don't go, whatever. See, the disc golf community NEEDS people like him to exist. What he's doing for the PDGA is charity. He doesn't have to. He could decide tomorrow that it isn't worth the hassle and bag the legdestone. It's happened to plenty of awesome TD'S before.

I don't get what makes people think they have the right to pile on. If you don't like it don't play in it, don't watch it, don't buy a fundraiser disc or whatever. But the idea that nate owes players (and a bunch of non players too) an explanation is pure garbage. Disc golfers critizing nate is like a homeless person griping about the food at the soup kitchen

 

[Aim For The Chains]

yeah I personally cannot believe that he WOULDNT take some of the $ to cover all the BS he has dealt with. The hours are likely not even able to be budgeted at this day and age in the sport. Why pay out a bunch of whiney ass dudes really is how I see many of these events.

HEY BECOME A DISC GOLF TD AND WORK FOR FREE TO GET YOUR ASS RIPPED UP OVER SOMETHING YOU TRIED REAL HARD TO MAKE GREAT! .. And don't get my comments twisted over the payouts and it has nothing to do with this tournament but disc golf in general. This large payout just shows how F'd up DG is when it comes to that structure and what players expect at a low level of overall competition. Get serious if you want serious $. The self promotion is laughable.

 

[DirtyMeathook]

Actually yes, yes it does. See, nate doesn't owe the disc golf community a freaking thing. NOTHING. He can run his event any way he freaking feels like. He could build a temp course next year with nothing but 100 foot holes and I wouldn't say a damn thing. Nobody is paying him. He does this purely out of love and passion for disc golf. So he can do whatever he wants. It's HIS event. If you don't like it, don't play, don't watch, don't go, whatever. See, the disc golf community NEEDS people like him to exist. What he's doing for the PDGA is charity. He doesn't have to. He could decide tomorrow that it isn't worth the hassle and bag the legdestone. It's happened to plenty of awesome TD'S before.

I don't get what makes people think they have the right to pile on. If you don't like it don't play in it, don't watch it, don't buy a fundraiser disc or whatever. But the idea that nate owes players (and a bunch of non players too) an explanation is pure garbage. Disc golfers critizing nate is like a homeless person griping about the food at the soup kitchen

BOOOOOOOOM!

In the few years that I have played, this tournament was the best thing to happen to DG. Bottom line is 125k got pumped into the disc golf community due to the work of one man.

 

[joecoin]

BOOOOOOOOM!

In the few years that I have played, this tournament was the best thing to happen to DG. Bottom line is 125k got pumped into the disc golf community due to the work of one man.

$125K would build a sweet course.

 

[AndyJB]

BOOOOOOOOM!

In the few years that I have played, this tournament was the best thing to happen to DG. Bottom line is 125k got pumped into the disc golf community due to the work of one man.

THREAD DRIFT AHEAD:

When did "boom" become such a big phrase in disc golf? Also "woot woot." I may be a crumudgeon, but I see those two phrases all the time. There is no logical reason for me to be annoyed by them, yet still, everytime I see those two idiotic phrases I want to disregard everything the individual who typed them has to say...even when it is logical like DirtyMeathook's brief post.

/thread drift

No TD is above criticism. However, if the criticism is not constructive, and is in fact just whining, then that doesn't mean said criticism has to be respected. Valid Ledgestone complaint: the galley on the final 9. Pretty much everything else I've read seems like sour grapes and whining...but then again, I wasn't there.

 

[Pbmercil]

THREAD DRIFT AHEAD:

When did "boom" become such a big phrase in disc golf? Also "woot woot." I may be a crumudgeon, but I see those two phrases all the time.

I think it's more general vernacular/ pop culture then disc golf specific

 

[WFreed]

why is nobody appreciating that simon won on this course because he was the only one who played smart golf in the final 9? I would say it more of a challenge for simon to make himself lay up than to just crush a shot with no fear of OB. Its good for the players to be challenged even if smart golf isnt as fun to watch.

 

[runningDoc]

The next stage to grow the sport is again follow the Boston and New York Runners Clubs model and create independent non profit corporations where you can have salaried organizer staffs per given tournament, especially the larger ones.

You need to compensate the efforts of TDs and main organizers for such a successful (in terms of man power and money generated) endeavor. The players will always be there, but the current model is not sustainable for the superstar level TDs/organizers. The top TDs will just burn out.

The PDGA has salaried staff, and wouldn't survive without it. In fact it's grown by leaps and bounds. It doesn't have to be huge money/salaries but the system should be implemented. It's an idea who's time has come.

 

[runningDoc]

why is nobody appreciating that simon won on this course because he was the only one who played smart golf in the final 9? I would say it more of a challenge for simon to make himself lay up than to just crush a shot with no fear of OB. Its good for the players to be challenged even if smart golf isnt as fun to watch.

There's a new video Q&A with Simon and Eagle and Simon alludes to why he does those high risk shots during tourneys so often - because he sees competitors miss their lines and still get rewarded it gets in his head.

It's not a good reason to let that (not properly hitting lines) affect your game to the point you take crazy high risk shot to prove a point.

But if any tournament was the one to cater to Simon's psyche of having to throw proper shots lines OR ELSE - this was the one!

And lo and behold he stayed within his game watched as competitors missed their marks and were punished and won.

 

[grotto]

Yeah, I kept watching Simon, expecting him to do something crazy and he didn't, and he won! Nice to see that he has the ability to be more controlled.

If he can keep that mentality going, he's going to be damn dangerous to the lead card from here on!

 

[KaBooM]

why is nobody appreciating that simon won on this course because he was the only one who played smart golf in the final 9? I would say it more of a challenge for simon to make himself lay up than to just crush a shot with no fear of OB. Its good for the players to be challenged even if smart golf isnt as fun to watch.

Agree that Simon really played smart and executed well on the Final 9. To be fair, Paul missed, yes missed, a couple of key shots that turned things around. He then had to become aggressive. Point being that Paul clanked a couple of long putts, threw short OB on a not overly difficult approach and had a bad drive (compared to Simon's).

The more I reflect and watch footage, the more I like what Nate did here. There was no cruise control option. The design, aided by some wind, required the best player in the game to be all of his "1050" skill set on the final 5 or 6 holes. There was pressure on drives, approaches and putts. For once, he wasn't up for the test. Way, way better than your basic "walk in the park", bomb a big hyzer, lay up, putt -- protect the lead.

Great job Nate!! I am sure that a few things should be tweaked. I do now like the S&D being scattered tactically around the course. Too many courses allow an easy "par recovery" to an errant 500' OB drive as the top pro simply foregoes a birdie (or even in extreme cases, an eagle) for the OB bomb drive. Controlled distance is what makes the U.S. Open a challenge for the top PGA players, nothing wrong at all with striving for that same "standard of difficulty" within a PDGA NT.

 

[runningDoc]

Yeah, I kept watching Simon, expecting him to do something crazy and he didn't, and he won! Nice to see that he has the ability to be more controlled.

If he can keep that mentality going, he's going to be damn dangerous to the lead card from here on!

USDGC is kind of similar in the sense that you should be punished if you don't hit your line. Maybe he carries this straight into a Major.

 

[Pbmercil]

Agree that Simon really played smart and executed well on the Final 9. To be fair, Paul missed, yes missed, a couple of key shots that turned things around. He then had to become aggressive. Point being that Paul clanked a couple of long putts, threw short OB on a not overly difficult approach and had a bad drive (compared to Simon's).

The more I reflect and watch footage, the more I like what Nate did here. There was no cruise control option. The design, aided by some wind, required the best player in the game to be all of his "1050" skill set on the final 5 or 6 holes. There was pressure on drives, approaches and putts. For once, he wasn't up for the test. Way, way better than your basic "walk in the park", bomb a big hyzer, lay up, putt -- protect the lead.

Yeah its growing on me too. Gotta figure Paul taking a two stroke lead into a final 9 in a more traditional format is nearly a done deal. Its very hard to close a gap when people can't take big numbers.

It made for a lot more excitement for sure. It also created some tough decisions for McBeth once he lost the lead. For example, the volleyball hole (which aesthetically I hated but I thought it played pretty well, tho I thought the 2 should have been more reasonable) Simon ended up going out on his approach and taking a 5. Paul also took a 5 after trying to run the deuce. He assumed he had to try for the deuce to close ground, but it turned out that a 3 would have given him two strokes. His thought process wasn't terrible, but simon made a mistake and because paul ran his tee shot he wasn't in a position to capitalize. That level of strategy and gamesmanship in a final is pretty fascinating to me.

McBeth probably got too aggressive once he lost the lead. Playing a bit safer and waiting for simon to make a mistake might have been smarter then trying to run some borderline impossible shots. Its crazy to think simon won being so conservative. Maybe he can carry that into the USDGC?

 

[optidiscic]

as someone who has designed a course with extensive OB, one thing Ive learned is that a players opinion of the course is typically very personal.....when they cannot run a basket without fear of ob they take it personally, when they throw ob and then gamble to make up strokes and compound the problem they take it personally.

Smart errorless play is worth as much as high risk high reward play and lots of players simply do not like that

I think there is a place for this in the game

I dont know much about the Ledgestone designs but I do know that players typically bitch when a course beats them

 

[Pbmercil]

as someone who has designed a course with extensive OB, one thing Ive learned is that a players opinion of the course is typically very personal.....when they cannot run a basket without fear of ob they take it personally, when they throw ob and then gamble to make up strokes and compound the problem they take it personally.

Smart errorless play is worth as much as high risk high reward play and lots of players simply do not like that

I think there is a place for this in the game

I dont know much about the Ledgestone designs but I do know that players typically bitch when a course beats them

I definitely agree. Players get so used to playing hyper aggressively that they somehow think its wrong or bad when the course is designed to punish them for that mentality.

 

[dekdo]

Actually yes, yes it does. See, nate doesn't owe the disc golf community a freaking thing. NOTHING. He can run his event any way he freaking feels like. He could build a temp course next year with nothing but 100 foot holes and I wouldn't say a damn thing. Nobody is paying him. He does this purely out of love and passion for disc golf. So he can do whatever he wants. It's HIS event. If you don't like it, don't play, don't watch, don't go, whatever. See, the disc golf community NEEDS people like him to exist. What he's doing for the PDGA is charity. He doesn't have to. He could decide tomorrow that it isn't worth the hassle and bag the legdestone. It's happened to plenty of awesome TD'S before.

I don't get what makes people think they have the right to pile on. If you don't like it don't play in it, don't watch it, don't buy a fundraiser disc or whatever. But the idea that nate owes players (and a bunch of non players too) an explanation is pure garbage. Disc golfers critizing nate is like a homeless person griping about the food at the soup kitchen

You're logic is wrong. I'm not saying the effort shouldn't be appreciated, but there is room to grow and improve. Ignoring this will only hurt you in the end.

 

[paulw]

Originally Posted by Pbmercil View Post
Actually yes, yes it does. See, nate doesn't owe the disc golf community a freaking thing. NOTHING. He can run his event any way he freaking feels like. He could build a temp course next year with nothing but 100 foot holes and I wouldn't say a damn thing. Nobody is paying him. He does this purely out of love and passion for disc golf. So he can do whatever he wants. It's HIS event. If you don't like it, don't play, don't watch, don't go, whatever. See, the disc golf community NEEDS people like him to exist. What he's doing for the PDGA is charity. He doesn't have to. He could decide tomorrow that it isn't worth the hassle and bag the legdestone. It's happened to plenty of awesome TD'S before.

I don't get what makes people think they have the right to pile on. If you don't like it don't play in it, don't watch it, don't buy a fundraiser disc or whatever. But the idea that nate owes players (and a bunch of non players too) an explanation is pure garbage. Disc golfers critizing nate is like a homeless person griping about the food at the soup kitchen


You're logic is wrong. I'm not saying the effort shouldn't be appreciated, but there is room to grow and improve. Ignoring this will only hurt you in the end.

You're both wrong. The guy(s) that do all the work should get paid. They won't because the goal is to see how much money you can give away. Silly goal -- keep the money.

 

[Jax11]

yeah watch the end for you people who cant seem to make it through content which is 1+min and doesn't interest you right away.

I think the general undertones of Stokely's video were positive. I appreciate his positive attitude and the professional approach he intends to use to provide feedback for the tournament staff.

What I think can be easily misconstrued is his idea of being selfish. How I took it was that he is choosing to respond this way because selfishly he wants more tournaments like this. Whining and complaining publicly will only burn out the tournament director. So he is choosing to selfishly withhold his constructive criticism for his intended letter so he doesn't publicly flame the tournament director.

I think he could have chosen different words but I think the general idea of his video was that its awesome to publicly acknowledge and appreciate the great things that happened at this tournament and your constructive criticism should be taken up directly, privately, and professionally with the tournament staff. Not aired out on social media.