2016 Ledgestone Insurance Open presented by Discraft

[JohtoVillage]

We are happy to announce the details of this year's Ledgestone Insurance Open, once again presented by Discraft.

When: August 18th - 21st for MPO/FPO; August 19th - 21st for all other divisions
Where: Central Illinois
Registration: Registration will open on 2/15/16 and here are the details: http://lisopen.com/register/
Courses: Course schedule will be available online at the following link: http://lisopen.com/event/2016/course-schedule.aspx
Projected Payout: The projected payout is located here: http://lisopen.com/event/2016/projected-payout.aspx
Schedule of Events: Here is the jam packed events schedule: http://lisopen.com/event/

We have made quite a bit of changes from last year. Here they are:
-No more Final 9.
-One round per day for every player.
-AM players will have the option of using their payout money online after the event is over if they cannot stick around for the Awards and payout in person.
-The Lake Eureka course has been modified. Here is the updated caddy guide: http://lisopen.com/event/2016/guide/eureka-temp.pdf
-We will be using eight courses this year instead of ten. This will allow AM players to play some higher quality courses.
-DGCR's very own Dana Vicich will be coming on board as the Assistant TD. Illinois State Coordinator Mike Krupicka and Deuce Squad owner Brady Hanna will also be assisting.

Other Highlights:
-This year's event will have 1236 players, assuming a full field. It will be the largest event in disc golf history.
-The pro payout will be $150,000 assuming a full field, which will surpass 2015's record pro purse.
-More spots are being made available for all divisions.
-The 2015 event gave $20,000 to St Jude, and the goal is to give $30,000 for the 2016 event.
-The AM player's pack will be monstrous.
-The AM payout will be nearly $60,000. First place in MA1 will receive a whopping $1200. Payouts will be strong and they will be deep.
-Discraft will once again be the presenting sponsor of the event.
-This year's event will be part of the Disc Golf Pro Tour: http://www.discgolfprotour.com/
-Side events include a Distance competition, Putting competition, 2 XC Tiers, Glo Doubles, A Disc Golf Festival, 2 FlyMarts, an Ice Cream Social, a Players Buffet Dinner, a Hole in One contest with a big prize and a huge raffle to benefit St Jude.
-Once again the registration process will be tiered and those details are on the website. This year registration will take place at Disc Golf Scene.

Keep up with all of the news and updates by liking our Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/LedgestoneInsuranceOpen/?fref=ts

 

[Halcón]

Sounds like a huge tourney got even huger. I love the payout goal to St. Jude. Awesome stuff.

 

[JohtoVillage]

Sounds like a huge tourney got even huger. I love the payout goal to St. Jude. Awesome stuff.

Thanks! We had a patient last year throw out our ceremonial first putt who had her life saved through the work of St Jude. It was incredibly touching to be involved with St Jude and I am excited to be able to work with them again.

 

[Halcón]

I was vocal about the deep payouts this year, thinking they should be more top heavy. But hey, if it works, and you're pulling off an event like that (1236 players!), AND able to give back...then keep doing your thing.

 

[PWaggoner]

Good job sounds awesome!! 1200 advanced payout would be insane!

Remember that thread about FPO and equal pay or something?

MPO has 320 for a first payout of 7000 while FPO has 36 with a first payout of 2000. If the FPO had a field as large as MPO first payout would be nearly 20 grand.

 

[JohtoVillage]

MPO has 320 for a first payout of 7000 while FPO has 36 with a first payout of 2000. If the FPO had a field as large as MPO first payout would be nearly 20 grand.

The added cash per FPO player comes out to about $125. The added cash per MPO player comes out to about $130. So I am not entirely sure what you are saying is accurate. I tried to make it as close as possible.

I was vocal about the deep payouts this year, thinking they should be more top heavy. But hey, if it works, and you're pulling off an event like that (1236 players!), AND able to give back...then keep doing your thing.

Yeah, I know I will get complaints about the deep payout again this year. People will say, "$150,000 purse and only $7,000 for first in MPO?"

They will also complain about paying 150 deep in MPO. I understand their concerns, but if the payout is too top heavy then you won't get the 960 and 970 pros to play the event. If you only pay out 25% of the field or so, it just makes the rich richer and doesn't spread the love enough to get that many players to sign up. That's just my opinion based on running large events.

 

[JC17393]

Good job sounds awesome!! 1200 advanced payout would be insane!

Remember that thread about FPO and equal pay or something?

MPO has 320 for a first payout of 7000 while FPO has 36 with a first payout of 2000. If the FPO had a field as large as MPO first payout would be nearly 20 grand.

First place payout doesn't scale up like that, not with the PDGA payout table. You'd be correct if, with 320 in FPO, they paid the same number of women as they will with 36 players (15). They won't. With 320 players, they'd pay (assuming 40%) 128 players which would keep the first place payout in the 7000-7500 range just like the men.

And as I type, Nate chimes in to make that exact point.

 

[JohtoVillage]

First place payout doesn't scale up like that, not with the PDGA payout table. You'd be correct if, with 320 in FPO, they paid the same number of women as they will with 36 players (15). They won't. With 320 players, they'd pay (assuming 40%) 128 players which would keep the first place payout in the 7000-7500 range just like the men.

And in this case we are paying about 55% of the FPO field and about 47% of the MPO field. The rest of the pro divisions will be 50%, while AM divisions will range from 50% to 80%.

 

[DiscJunkie]

Thanks for what you're doing.
This whole announcement is awe-inspiring.
Keep up the good work!

 

[teemkey]

Nate: Hopefully 2016 weather will permit your testing program to be implemented in full.

You've got Wysocki and Koling forehands, Lizotte and Shusterick backhands, and that McBeth guy. Then you've got the <1000 rated 80% of the field to consider (MPO & FPO).

So could you tell us the guiding principals you apply when testing a gold-level temporary course? It would be great if you'd discuss the order you prioritize those principals, and how you evaluate test data.

Maybe this would be best discussed on Smashboxx or another media forum with a more interactive and moderated format...

 

[JohtoVillage]

So could you tell us the guiding principals you apply when testing a gold-level temporary course? It would be great if you'd discuss the order you prioritize those principals, and how you evaluate test data.

Assuming you are referring to the Lake Eureka course, I am happy to answer.

The Eureka course played to about an SSA of 65. This year we have eliminated four holes, all of which were par 3's. One of those played as essentially the easiest on the course, while another played pretty easy but did provide some score separation. One of the holes we eliminated was the volleyball court hole. This hole did not work out as planned. I could have fixed this hole, but actually found a much better hole to use in this area. The other hole we eliminated was a good, challenging par 3 but we decided to combine it with another hole to make a very challenging par 4.

We have added a monster 1100 foot par 5, a somewhat challenging par 4, a solid par 3 that will see a good mix of birdies and pars with some bogeys thrown in, and then a very challenging par 3, akin to hole 17 at the USDGC.

We have also adjusted stroke and distance on 3 holes and made one more tweak to one more hole. All in all, I would expect the SSA to play to about a 66 or 67 for next year's event.

I say all of that to answer your question. Before I do that, keep in mind that the only division that will be playing the Eureka course this year is MPO.

I wanted the Lake Eureka course to be a Gold Level bordering on Black Level course. Its really tough to make a Black Level course without a lot of trees (though rope helps).

I have been testing the updated design this Fall. I was able to learn a lot while watching the top pros play the course. I also used quite a bit of statistical analysis in my evaluation. The results...

-Unfortunately, lower rated players did not play the course as intended. Many times they tried shots that the top pros weren't trying, and this resulted in a lot of high scores for them. A few lower rated pros birdied the water tower hole and the volleyball court hole, while no one in Pool A birdied either of those two holes.
-The top pros played some of the harder holes very conservatively, valuing par over a potential birdie. This proved to be a good strategy.
-Wind was a huge factor on the course. Without wind the course probably would have played 3 strokes easier.

Based on player feedback, our statistical analysis and the shots I saw thrown at the course, it became pretty clear what I needed to do. We are hosting a Preview event in May where I will be able to see some of the changes being thrown by other players, but I don't think that will change my opinion a lot. As I found out last year, top pros play a much different game than regular, 970 rated pros. I will say that I have thrown the new holes numerous times to see how they play. Just one of these holes will have stroke and distance, and its a short, island green hole so its easier to design. It was a little more challenging to design the new, 1100 foot par 5, but I think it will be the new signature hole and people will enjoy it.

My vision for the course is to create a US Open style course where par is a good score. Too many courses are just too easy nowadays. I want to make par a good score. In doing so, you will create a course that challenges players beyond what most courses challenge them nowadays. That makes players uncomfortable and sometimes the players will get a little bit angry.

But basically when testing the course in the future, this is how I envision it: How the course was played/me watching the pros play the course > My Course Design Committee Opinions > Statistical Analysis > Future Preview Events

Once again, to reiterate, as I tweaked the course I had these things in mind:
-I want to continue to punish bad putts; OB will continue to be located approximately 20 feet behind or around a lot of baskets.
-I want to force people to think about laying up.
-I want to utilize stroke and distance OB to make people think more and to severely punish bad shots.
-I want to make sure that the risk/reward component is truly evident: some holes in 2015 did not have any reward factor and just had risk. I wanted to modify this for the 2016 version of the course.
-I want to keep players on edge the entire round to where they are forced to focus on every shot. When I have played this course myself and when I play Winthrop Gold, there is no letting up. The course forces you to be focused on every shot, and as soon as you lose focus big numbers happen.

Hopefully that answers your question, let me know if you have any more questions!

 

[teemkey]

Many thanks for the extended and clear response Nate.

I must admit I asked the questions based on another ongoing thread that has evolved into making courses more difficult and play more exciting to watch. I thought your approach to creating difficulty and excitement would be an excellent counterpoint.

BTW, I do believe a deep payout is the best strategy for the long term benefit of professional disc golf. It enables developing players to stay on tour to hone their skills, and that's how we'll see more and better competition in the future. Likewise the hefty contribution to charity enhances the profile of disc golf in the best possible way. Keep fighting the good fight.

Thanks so much for you and the Ledgestone Open team for all the hard work.

 

[JohtoVillage]

Thanks for the kind words. I saw the thread about making competition more difficult and considered chiming in. I will say that I completely disagree with making baskets smaller, mainly because it would be too hard to replace all of the courses in the country with smaller baskets. I think the best way to make putting harder is to make baskets riskier. It doesn't require a terrain change, but it would just require getting OB near baskets.

Case in point: this last year at Ledgestone during the third round, McBeth had an 80 footer on hole 14 at Northwood. OB was behind the basket about 20 feet. I stood right next to him before he putted and he said, "I want to run this putt but your OB is too close." He wasn't really mad but was just commenting about it. He proceeded to run the putt anyways and he buried the putt. For someone like McBeth, running a putt 25 feet past the basket is irrelevant because he will make the comeback putt. In this case, I at least made him think about laying up the putt because of the risk behind the basket. It didn't affect him, but the placement of OB around baskets (reasonable distance) is in my opinion an effective way to make putting more difficult: nerves come into play more and that causes more missed putts.

 

[Consult20]

Thanks for the kind words. I saw the thread about making competition more difficult and considered chiming in. I will say that I completely disagree with making baskets smaller, mainly because it would be too hard to replace all of the courses in the country with smaller baskets. I think the best way to make putting harder is to make baskets riskier. It doesn't require a terrain change, but it would just require getting OB near baskets.

Case in point: this last year at Ledgestone during the third round, McBeth had an 80 footer on hole 14 at Northwood. OB was behind the basket about 20 feet. I stood right next to him before he putted and he said, "I want to run this putt but your OB is too close." He wasn't really mad but was just commenting about it. He proceeded to run the putt anyways and he buried the putt. For someone like McBeth, running a putt 25 feet past the basket is irrelevant because he will make the comeback putt. In this case, I at least made him think about laying up the putt because of the risk behind the basket. It didn't affect him, but the placement of OB around baskets (reasonable distance) is in my opinion an effective way to make putting more difficult: nerves come into play more and that causes more missed putts.

"Oh, and by the way Paul, we pulled the outside chains on that basket too -- are you still going to run it?"

 

[brandocommando9]

"Oh, and by the way Paul, we pulled the outside chains on that basket too -- are you still going to run it?"

I wouldn't doubt it lol!

 

[IndyTyler]

The new changes to Eureka look good Nate. Glad to see the haters didn't put out your fire. I am really looking forward to coming back and playing again this year.

 

[JohtoVillage]

The new changes to Eureka look good Nate. Glad to see the haters didn't put out your fire. I am really looking forward to coming back and playing again this year.

For about a week or so I was strongly considering taking a year off, but Discraft was very supportive and pretty much talked me into it.

 

[IndyTyler]

Well I am glad you decided to do it again. It was a blast this year. I really hope Am1 plays Kennel Lake again. That was a great set up of a temp course. Westwood is a fantastic course too. Thank you for all the hard work.

 

[Steve West]

What is Lateral Relief?

 

[JohtoVillage]

What is Lateral Relief?

There are rocks on the shoreline of the lake that are dangerous and we give relief from the rocks if the disc comes to rest on the rocks. You can take lateral relief to come off of the rocks onto land.