Recently in a series of emails back and forth between Jubuttib and myself I had several questions answered that had been looming since becoming interested in the more peripheral aspects of Discgolf.
For some this information may seem commonsensical and basic, let me assure you however that for a new player on this site, exposed to so much terminology and culture at once, some of these concepts seem much more daunting and ominous than they truly are.
I can only hope that some of the other new, yet serious, players out there benefit from this the way I have.
Please note that it is a slight read, I chose to keep it more conversational in form to help stay true to Jubuttib's wording and language.
Thanks (especially to you Jubuttib),
-------------------------------------------------------
Dialogues of Wear; cajuaL to jubuttib
Cajual: I have had a lot of trouble finding pointed information on the wearing process that a disc goes through as it ages so to speak and would love the chance to pick your brain while I have you.
So to begin;
How does a disc wear in?
jubuttib: Depends on the disc and plastic, but on a general level discs tend to get understable with time. The initial break in period is pretty fast, of the order of 1-2 weeks or so for baseline, a month or maybe two for premium. During that initial break in period the flash wears down and the disc gets a bit banged up. How much the flight changes during that period is dependent on the disc (PDs don't really wear in that much during that initial period). After that the breaking in slows down, and the discs can stay on pretty much the same level of wear for a long time, even years. Like my favorite S-PD (2nd run orange Freak that started out almost as overstable as the first runs) that I've had in the bag for two years, and it's only now getting a bit of turn to it, and still has plenty of fade at the end of its flight. I think I still have about a year two at the very least in that thing before it gets understable on me.
Discs can also wear in different ways. A Roc for example has a tendency to lose its fade while retaining its high speed stability, meaning it gets straighter before getting understable. A Katana will more likely lose high speed stability while retaining the fade, meaning it's going to get more wayward and require more room to work it as it beats in. Then there are some that lose both at about the same rate and just get consistently more understable.
Premiums last longer but baseline is easy to beat in if you need the understability.
Cajual: Could you elaborate slightly more on the wearing process for the different types of plastics?
jubuttib: Baseline usually seasons in a few weeks, upper baseline (pro) within months. Not to unusable, but noticeably worn, and will after that fly more or less the same for a while, depending on the mold and blend of plastic. With premium plastic it can indeed take quite a bit of time, and I guess you could say it never actually ends. Discs get more beat up pretty much to infinity, though in some rare cases they actually suddenly get super-duper overstable again. But that usually applies only to discs beaten to hell and back again, and then having been a chew toy for a dog for a couple of years.
Cajual: Is there good and bad wear? Are gouges / gashes / cuts etc THAT big of a deal? Can I have faith in my putter off the teebox even if it regularly hits the basket and becomes roughed up?
jubuttib: They can ruin a disc, but what seems to be the most important thing is that the hits the disc takes actually bend the wing down, lowering PLH. That and they get structurally weaker, bent out of shape and unstable. If the disc is beaded and the bead wears down noticeably, that's going to affect stability. Smaller nicks and scratches usually don't affect flight much at all, but big gouges can make discs more understable. The process of beating in a disc hasn't been studied objectively all that much. I've only read one study where they took three identical DX Valkyries, made sure they flew the same, measured things like wing height, diameter, dome, weight etc., then one was designated as a control disc, one received some throws on a field and one got thrown against walls etc. After that they measured them again and compared the flights, control staying the most stable, field thrown one getting a bit less stable and wall bashed one getting markedly understable.
If you're worried about the putters, just throw them and see if they can still take a drive. =) If you're worried about your putting putters getting too beat for driving duties, simply get other ones (perhaps in a premium plastic) for driving duties and relegate them for putting when they get too beat.
Cajual: What is the infamous sweet spot? How long does a disc typically stay in this stage?
jubuttib: It depends on the disc, the plastic, where you play (how hard the ground is, are there lots of trees etc.) and what you find the sweet spot to be. =) For some the Roc is at its best when it has a bit of turn and almost zero fade, and it can hang around in this state for years, even in baseline. Then again a Pro Destroyer will stay in it's almost totally neutral sweet spot for only a couple of months, unless you really treat it with care. Before that it's going to have a bit too much fade, and after that it's going to develop turn. As a good rule of thumb a disc that starts out a bit too overstable for the purpose you're trying to use it for will beat into the sweet spot gradually and stay there for way longer than a disc that starts out flying just like you want it to. A good example is that S-PD I mentioned earlier. When I first got it I mainly used it for wind fighting and shots that needed lots of fade, then it beat in a bit and hit a sweet spot where it was very reliable but wouldn't fade too early or too much and stayed there for about a year. Now it's gotten some turn and I think it's in an even sweeter spot, since it's still reliable and now it's even more workable than before.
But like I said, it depends on the disc. Generally a premium disc will stay in it's sweet spot for a longer time than baseline, and more neutral and overstable discs will also stay usable for longer than out of the box understable discs
Cajual: Is it bad to manually remove flash etc by using an exacto, concrete, sand paper, or any other coarse surface? And if not, what are some ways you can do this correctly?
jubuttib: Removing the flash is usually not considered a bad thing, since it's basically a molding flaw that isn't in the design. If you get rid of that manually (sanding, X-acto knife, rubbing it on concrete) you can basically take care of the initial wear in period before you start using the disc. Especially if it's premium it won't beat in fast after that, baselines still get dinged up and a solid rock or tree hit can completely destroy a baseline disc in one fell swoop. You probably want to do this to discs that are meant to be stable to overstable or stable to understable, since those discs will fly more overstable than they're supposed to before you get rid of the flash. If you have a really overstable disc that you want to keep that way for as long as possible you want to leave that flash in there.
Beating discs against trees, walls, etc. on purpose is basically forbidden by the rules, but since it's just about impossible to detect many people do it. Usually you'd want to let a disc beat in naturally and not accelerate the process, but if you really love beat in Wraiths for example you might want to get a few new ones and just blast them into submission. I sort of feel that way about my D-MD2's, I use them as an understable complement for my other MD2's and they need to be beaten in to understable before they're of much use to me.
By the way, if you want to beat in discs, a good way to do it is to go to a field and practice a bunch. Especially thumber and roller practice wears discs down quickly.
Cajual: Is that legitimate about it being illegal to throw your disc purposely into things?
jubuttib: It's basically a part of the rule that you aren't allowed to make modifications to the disc that affects the flight, actually meaning more like bending them, cutting of pieces, adding stuff etc. but beating it in through artificial means qualifies too. It's almost impossible to spot a disc that has been altered like that and it's been the subject of many a fruitless conversation in the past. Best not to drag it back up...
You ARE however allowed to fix gouges, scrapes etc. by sanding and cutting sharp edges etc.
Cajual: What is your best advice on cycling discs to help build multiples of each stage?
jubuttib: For overstable, moderately overstable or neutral plastic you basically just use the disc for what it's meant for as long as it still has the stability you want. When it gets beaten enough to not handle it's original duty anymore you assign it another duty and put a new overstable one in. You can basically keep doing this as long as you want, as long as the discs stay throwable (or rollable) you can just keep resupplying the overstable slot with new discs while continuously beating in the older ones. If you run into a situation where your new discs beat in faster than your older ones, you're basically getting a steady supply of beaten in back-ups. A beaten in overstable disc is often more reliable for understable duties than a disc that starts out understable.
Understable plastic works basically the same way, but if you start out with an understable disc there's really nowhere else to go except even more understable. I guess if you need rollers, then this is good for you.
For some this information may seem commonsensical and basic, let me assure you however that for a new player on this site, exposed to so much terminology and culture at once, some of these concepts seem much more daunting and ominous than they truly are.
I can only hope that some of the other new, yet serious, players out there benefit from this the way I have.
Please note that it is a slight read, I chose to keep it more conversational in form to help stay true to Jubuttib's wording and language.
Thanks (especially to you Jubuttib),
-------------------------------------------------------
Dialogues of Wear; cajuaL to jubuttib
Cajual: I have had a lot of trouble finding pointed information on the wearing process that a disc goes through as it ages so to speak and would love the chance to pick your brain while I have you.
So to begin;
How does a disc wear in?
jubuttib: Depends on the disc and plastic, but on a general level discs tend to get understable with time. The initial break in period is pretty fast, of the order of 1-2 weeks or so for baseline, a month or maybe two for premium. During that initial break in period the flash wears down and the disc gets a bit banged up. How much the flight changes during that period is dependent on the disc (PDs don't really wear in that much during that initial period). After that the breaking in slows down, and the discs can stay on pretty much the same level of wear for a long time, even years. Like my favorite S-PD (2nd run orange Freak that started out almost as overstable as the first runs) that I've had in the bag for two years, and it's only now getting a bit of turn to it, and still has plenty of fade at the end of its flight. I think I still have about a year two at the very least in that thing before it gets understable on me.
Discs can also wear in different ways. A Roc for example has a tendency to lose its fade while retaining its high speed stability, meaning it gets straighter before getting understable. A Katana will more likely lose high speed stability while retaining the fade, meaning it's going to get more wayward and require more room to work it as it beats in. Then there are some that lose both at about the same rate and just get consistently more understable.
Premiums last longer but baseline is easy to beat in if you need the understability.
Cajual: Could you elaborate slightly more on the wearing process for the different types of plastics?
jubuttib: Baseline usually seasons in a few weeks, upper baseline (pro) within months. Not to unusable, but noticeably worn, and will after that fly more or less the same for a while, depending on the mold and blend of plastic. With premium plastic it can indeed take quite a bit of time, and I guess you could say it never actually ends. Discs get more beat up pretty much to infinity, though in some rare cases they actually suddenly get super-duper overstable again. But that usually applies only to discs beaten to hell and back again, and then having been a chew toy for a dog for a couple of years.
Cajual: Is there good and bad wear? Are gouges / gashes / cuts etc THAT big of a deal? Can I have faith in my putter off the teebox even if it regularly hits the basket and becomes roughed up?
jubuttib: They can ruin a disc, but what seems to be the most important thing is that the hits the disc takes actually bend the wing down, lowering PLH. That and they get structurally weaker, bent out of shape and unstable. If the disc is beaded and the bead wears down noticeably, that's going to affect stability. Smaller nicks and scratches usually don't affect flight much at all, but big gouges can make discs more understable. The process of beating in a disc hasn't been studied objectively all that much. I've only read one study where they took three identical DX Valkyries, made sure they flew the same, measured things like wing height, diameter, dome, weight etc., then one was designated as a control disc, one received some throws on a field and one got thrown against walls etc. After that they measured them again and compared the flights, control staying the most stable, field thrown one getting a bit less stable and wall bashed one getting markedly understable.
If you're worried about the putters, just throw them and see if they can still take a drive. =) If you're worried about your putting putters getting too beat for driving duties, simply get other ones (perhaps in a premium plastic) for driving duties and relegate them for putting when they get too beat.
Cajual: What is the infamous sweet spot? How long does a disc typically stay in this stage?
jubuttib: It depends on the disc, the plastic, where you play (how hard the ground is, are there lots of trees etc.) and what you find the sweet spot to be. =) For some the Roc is at its best when it has a bit of turn and almost zero fade, and it can hang around in this state for years, even in baseline. Then again a Pro Destroyer will stay in it's almost totally neutral sweet spot for only a couple of months, unless you really treat it with care. Before that it's going to have a bit too much fade, and after that it's going to develop turn. As a good rule of thumb a disc that starts out a bit too overstable for the purpose you're trying to use it for will beat into the sweet spot gradually and stay there for way longer than a disc that starts out flying just like you want it to. A good example is that S-PD I mentioned earlier. When I first got it I mainly used it for wind fighting and shots that needed lots of fade, then it beat in a bit and hit a sweet spot where it was very reliable but wouldn't fade too early or too much and stayed there for about a year. Now it's gotten some turn and I think it's in an even sweeter spot, since it's still reliable and now it's even more workable than before.
But like I said, it depends on the disc. Generally a premium disc will stay in it's sweet spot for a longer time than baseline, and more neutral and overstable discs will also stay usable for longer than out of the box understable discs
Cajual: Is it bad to manually remove flash etc by using an exacto, concrete, sand paper, or any other coarse surface? And if not, what are some ways you can do this correctly?
jubuttib: Removing the flash is usually not considered a bad thing, since it's basically a molding flaw that isn't in the design. If you get rid of that manually (sanding, X-acto knife, rubbing it on concrete) you can basically take care of the initial wear in period before you start using the disc. Especially if it's premium it won't beat in fast after that, baselines still get dinged up and a solid rock or tree hit can completely destroy a baseline disc in one fell swoop. You probably want to do this to discs that are meant to be stable to overstable or stable to understable, since those discs will fly more overstable than they're supposed to before you get rid of the flash. If you have a really overstable disc that you want to keep that way for as long as possible you want to leave that flash in there.
Beating discs against trees, walls, etc. on purpose is basically forbidden by the rules, but since it's just about impossible to detect many people do it. Usually you'd want to let a disc beat in naturally and not accelerate the process, but if you really love beat in Wraiths for example you might want to get a few new ones and just blast them into submission. I sort of feel that way about my D-MD2's, I use them as an understable complement for my other MD2's and they need to be beaten in to understable before they're of much use to me.
By the way, if you want to beat in discs, a good way to do it is to go to a field and practice a bunch. Especially thumber and roller practice wears discs down quickly.
Cajual: Is that legitimate about it being illegal to throw your disc purposely into things?
jubuttib: It's basically a part of the rule that you aren't allowed to make modifications to the disc that affects the flight, actually meaning more like bending them, cutting of pieces, adding stuff etc. but beating it in through artificial means qualifies too. It's almost impossible to spot a disc that has been altered like that and it's been the subject of many a fruitless conversation in the past. Best not to drag it back up...
You ARE however allowed to fix gouges, scrapes etc. by sanding and cutting sharp edges etc.
Cajual: What is your best advice on cycling discs to help build multiples of each stage?
jubuttib: For overstable, moderately overstable or neutral plastic you basically just use the disc for what it's meant for as long as it still has the stability you want. When it gets beaten enough to not handle it's original duty anymore you assign it another duty and put a new overstable one in. You can basically keep doing this as long as you want, as long as the discs stay throwable (or rollable) you can just keep resupplying the overstable slot with new discs while continuously beating in the older ones. If you run into a situation where your new discs beat in faster than your older ones, you're basically getting a steady supply of beaten in back-ups. A beaten in overstable disc is often more reliable for understable duties than a disc that starts out understable.
Understable plastic works basically the same way, but if you start out with an understable disc there's really nowhere else to go except even more understable. I guess if you need rollers, then this is good for you.