Am world BAGGERS

[Dave242]

I have only seen it once and it was a couple of months ago. $30.00 to enter (AM) and all we got was one tourney stamped Z plastic disc. Now I know which TD and Club to avoid for future events.

Not saying you are not correct, but some events are advertised as fundraisers (some are poorly advertised as such). So, the point is to have high entry fees, low payouts, and make decent money without much work or exposure to risk/loss.

 

[Chains Bailey]

Sponsors

I qualified that earlier, it does answer the question for 98% of the PDGA events.


I need to add the question:

How do Pros get 100%+ of their entry fees + any additional money for B and A tiers given back to them in the form of Pro payout?


Answer - AMs pay for entire PDGA events + PRO and AM payouts. Not a bad thing, just the truth.

 

[Halcón]

Threads like this stir up discussion, but are things going to change? Do we want them to change?

 

[JC17393]

Every tournament you have played in IS run this way.

No, not the way Dave242 describes it. Not $10 off the top of the entry and only paying the ams $20 back in value and calling it 100% return.

What DavidSauls described was every tournament I've ever played or run. Dave242 is describing something a little different than that, particularly since he posted it as a distinct alternative to DavidSauls.

 

[smyith]

You are going to have to point out where that link changes the FACTS I have presented.

how do you take everything from AMs and not payout 100% at a B tier?
how do you take everything from AMs and not payout 110% at an A tier?

Also, you have not, and can not, answer my earlier question --- How do Pros get 100%+ of their entry fees + any additional money for B and A tiers given back to them in the form of Pro payout?

money raised thru sponsorship proir to the event. 50/50 ctp. merch profit from proir events. plus no tier requires you to payout more than 100% of the pro entry fee.

 

[Chains Bailey]

No, not the way Dave242 describes it. Not $10 off the top of the entry and only paying the ams $20 back in value and calling it 100% return.

What DavidSauls described was every tournament I've ever played or run. Dave242 is describing something a little different than that, particularly since he posted it as a distinct alternative to DavidSauls.

Whatever way you slice it...it equals AMs paying for entire events.

 

[bnbanbury]

Every tournament you have played in IS run this way.

To say that all tournaments are run a particular way is silly, there are big discrepancies from td to td in terms of how payouts are handled. I've been to several tournaments that have paid out more than 100% to ams. I've also attended your tournaments Brandon which have average to low payout. I also played Tom coffin's tournament last year that cost 20 bucks, didn't announce as trophy only, and paid out nothing. It's a spectrum. Speaking hyperbolically doesn't serve any purpose.

 

[bnbanbury]

how do you take everything from AMs and not payout 100% at a B tier?
how do you take everything from AMs and not payout 110% at an A tier?


money raised thru sponsorship proir to the event. 50/50 ctp. merch profit from proir events. plus no tier requires you to payout more than 100% of the pro entry fee.

Well they require added cash which amounts to the same thing

 

[bhadella]

Yes, I suppose you are right. Arizona does a good job of self-policing. There really aren't a lot of people that I see doing this. I guess it is just the few that do are so noticeable that it seems like a massive problem.

I think Hammer's thing against "bagging" is a local phenomenon due to the high percentage of people that "play up" in Arizona.

I just looked at the six most recent B & C Tier tourneys in AZ and it's very evident that "playing up" is a very common there. Only 22 of the 101 people playing Intermediate were ranked > 900. Only 23 of the 130 people playing Advanced were > 935. So of the 231 entries into Intermediate and Advanced, only 45 (19%) were playing within their natural or "non playing-up" Division.

 

[smyith]

Well they require added cash which amounts to the same thing

derrrr. that was not his question

 

[Chains Bailey]

how do you take everything from AMs and not payout 100% at a B tier?
how do you take everything from AMs and not payout 110% at an A tier?


money raised thru sponsorship proir to the event. 50/50 ctp. merch profit from proir events. plus no tier requires you to payout more than 100% of the pro entry fee.

98% of events do not have (sponsorship/50/50 ctp/profit from prior events) to distribute AND even with less than 100% payout for Pros you still have not answered the question.

You have to just accept that the majority of PDGA events are run from scratch (Zero money to start with) and funded with AM money. You can stay ignorant of this fact, but it does not change the reality.


AMs pay for ENTIRE events + Pro payout + AM payout. We can argue over terms like "Am Scam" and where the money comes from "Merch Profit", but the FACT remains the same...the money comes solely from the AMs.

 

[Future_Primitive]

Not saying you are not correct, but some events are advertised as fundraisers (some are poorly advertised as such). So, the point is to have high entry fees, low payouts, and make decent money without much work or exposure to risk/loss.

Agreed on fundraising tourneys, I have no issue with them as you know what you are signing up. Nobody should expect anything back but a good time at a fundraiser event.

Nope, this was a PDGA sanctioned C-Tier event. $30 for PDGA members, so $40 for non members and only 1 Discraft tourney stamped Z disc. :thmbdown:

Like I said, only one I have ever seen that was out of whack.

 

[Atrain]

Kind of, but not really

Whatever way you slice it...it equals AMs paying for entire events.

Chains, you are almost right. You're forgetting one step though.

Ams get what they pay for. Pros get what they pay for. The ams aren't the ones paying for the pros, it's the the TDs and organizers that are.

Yes, we know the margin that the tournament makes is coming from the Ams, but that doesn't equate to them paying for the pros.

 

[JC17393]

Whatever way you slice it...it equals AMs paying for entire events.

Ams don't pay for the events I run, at least not entirely. Everyone pays their fair share of the expenses. Pros pay their $2 C-tier and $3 B-tier PDGA player fees just like the ams. Pros pay their share of any course rental or greens fees when applicable just like the ams. Pros pay the same donation at our charity events, just like the ams. This notion that all that is beneath the responsibility of pros, even at PDGA events, baffles me.

 

[TheArnoldPalmer]

This is a great thread. We have a a lot guys in Central MN that fit in here. They play in intermediate and their ratings above 925. They are putting up scores that would put them in the top 10 in advanced. You guys know who you are. Yes, some of them are on this forum. At the same time intermediate players need to step up their games to compete at a higher level. But these "Sand baggers" or whatever you want to call them. They need to move up to advanced to improve their own game. I have only played in a couple tournaments myself but it was clear as day that some of these guys just want the win and cash. So how about no more payouts in intermediate. Intermediate players are not making a living playing disc golf. Maybe this would make these guys play Advanced. I used to play in a lot of pool tournaments and it was the same. They don't care about the game. I get, who does not want to win. It just tells you a lot about that person. LOSERS!!!! But when I sign up for a tournament I expect to play others at the same level or a bit better.

To my understanding INT. goes up to 935.

And what I find even MORE irritating than what this thread is about is NOVICE and REC players who sign up in INT.

Totally slows down the round for everyone who actually belongs in that group/division. Honestly, when I'm stuck playing with someone not playing their rating I have to look away when it's their turn to throw. seeing someone shank their shot or doink an easy putt over and over bugs me while trying to compete against people who actually belong in that division. :wall:

 

[Chains Bailey]

To say that all tournaments are run a particular way is silly, there are big discrepancies from td to td in terms of how payouts are handled. I've been to several tournaments that have paid out more than 100% to ams. I've also attended your tournaments Brandon which have average to low payout. I also played Tom coffin's tournament last year that cost 20 bucks, didn't announce as trophy only, and paid out nothing. It's a spectrum. Speaking hyperbolically doesn't serve any purpose.

"I've also attended your tournaments Brandon which have average to low payout"

This is incorrect on all fronts.


My events pay Pro 100%+, with ZERO money taken out for anything. An example would be - 50 Pros at $50 = $2500 + $500 for being a B-Tier and the Pro payout will always be $3000. Add value with Trophies (Always awarded) T-Shirts/Decals etc...(Occasionally available).

Am payout is always OVER the 100% mark by a good margin.

I have made a few mistakes (I would guess 2 times at most) with adding up the Pro fees for payout and shorting' them at most $70, if my memory serves me correct.


Here is what Pros have NEVER paid for at one of my events:

PDGA event sanctioning fees
ALL printed material --- Tournament specific flyers/programs/scorecards
ALL player PGDA fees (Including Pro)
ALL local series fees
Tournament insurance
Local park fees
ALL merchandise for players packs (Including Pro, when offered)
ALL merchandise for AM payout
ALL CTPs, AM and Pro
Trophies, AM and Pro
Lunches for ALL, if included in the event
Money added for B and A Tiers

I will not comment on other TDs payouts or events.

I am pointing out a FACT, that people may not like to hear - or may not like to have put out for everyone to see, but still remains true.

 

[smyith]

98% of events do not have (sponsorship/50/50 ctp/profit from prior events) to distribute AND even with less than 100% payout for Pros you still have not answered the question.

You have to just accept that the majority of PDGA events are run from scratch (Zero money to start with) and funded with AM money. You can stay ignorant of this fact, but it does not change the reality.


AMs pay for ENTIRE events + Pro payout + AM payout. We can argue over terms like "Am Scam" and where the money comes from "Merch Profit", but the FACT remains the same...the money comes solely from the AMs.

don't you just love definitive statements with no data to back it up. did you know that 88.75% of all forums posters make up 67.98% of their statistics?

 

[Chains Bailey]

Ams don't pay for the events I run, at least not entirely. Everyone pays their fair share of the expenses. Pros pay their $2 C-tier and $3 B-tier PDGA player fees just like the ams. Pros pay their share of any course rental or greens fees when applicable just like the ams. Pros pay the same donation at our charity events, just like the ams. This notion that all that is beneath the responsibility of pros, even at PDGA events, baffles me.

That is great that your events can be evenly divided in terms of money from AM and PRO entry fees towards event costs. You are a part of the 2% I have mentioned.

If I did that, there would be the view that I am paying the Pros a very LOW amount verse their entry fees.

 

[Chains Bailey]

don't you just love definitive statements with no data to back it up. did you know that 88.75% of all forums posters make up 67.98% of their statistics?

Pick a number --- 98% / 88% / 73%......fact remains the same - just substitute the word MAJORITY for any numbers I have thrown out and you are still incorrect.

 

[smyith]

98% of events do not have (sponsorship/50/50 ctp/profit from prior events) to distribute AND even with less than 100% payout for Pros you still have not answered the question.

how have i not answered the question? maybe you need to rephrase it.

its been many years since i played an event without at least one 50/50 CTP. a couple of the local TDs have even said they use prior profit. i will give you tho that sponsorship is not common.

what YOU need to realize is that not all events are run the same across the country. just cause around you it happens one way does not mean that it is done differently elsewhere. so maybe 98% of the time its like that locally for you. But around me locally I would put it at less than 50%.