Crowley Tourney and the drama that followed.

[Dave242]

this just proves that the rulebook is garbage..you can bend most rules to work in your favor

Actually you got that backwards - the rulebook is fine, it is the people who bend the rules to work in their favor who are "garbage" (I use poetic license here since I try to respect people to a point where I would never call anyone garbage)

I played Ultimate competitively for years before starting DG. That is a self refereeing sport with the penalties being quite non-punative. The over-arching theme was "spirit of the game".

I absolutely loved that having played college soccer and then mens league soccer where I way too often saw what I call "frustrated high school jock syndrome" - a selfish and argumentative attitude that totally kills the fun.

When I started playing DG the laid back sportsman-like "spirit of the game" dominated my experience. I loved it.....and I still do. When I see the "frustrated high school jock syndrome" creep into DG, I hate it! And I hate it about myself when my competitive nature oozes out when I am competing and playing poorly and I find myself lessening the enjoyment of others with a little of my own FHSJS.

 

[giles]

So the Crowley tourney was this last weekend and i habe heard a crazy story about a player playing in open masters that blew up. I have heard ths from about 5 people and all of the stories match up so I am wondering was anyone there, does anyone know the real story and if so WTF?
The story I have heard was that this open master missed a tap in, got mad and picked his putter up. He then went to the next hole and did not hole out. I was told that that means automatic DQ, is that true? He told guys on his card that it didnt matter he wasnt coming back on Sunday. Well he did com back on Sunday and ended up cashing for 150 bucks or something like that. The TD paid the other people because this guys was DQ'ed. As of yesterday the PDGA overturned the TD's ruling. Now the people I heard this story from said it was cause this guy is a sponsor and because it was a gimmie. I would like to hear the whole story because if the PDGA did overturn the DQ, why, and if so why are there rules if we dont have to follow them.

Hole 21, 08 Java Classic

LOL Rob...

 

[80playedin10states]

so interpreting the rules a different way from you makes me garbage...okie dokie...the rulebook isn't fine if there are so many arguments about it...like this post...why wasn't he dq'ed?...the rules aren't used in casual play(much?) anyway so maybe that's where you play your rounds...for someone like me that has played in hundreds and hundreds of tourneys, the rules are a must

 

[Dave242]

Nope - what I said was the rulebook is fine, it is the people who bend the rules to work in their favor who are "garbage" (I use poetic license here since I try to respect people to a point where I would never call anyone garbage)

I have no issues at all with good honest discussion of rules interpretation since no rulebook (at least one that is readable and useful and does not take a handtruck to carry with you) will cover every possible scenario and nuanced situation. I do have issues with people bending the rules to suit themselves.

I have no clue about the situation that this thread is about, but I chose to trust that things were handled well by the people closest to the facts and circumstances. I give them the benefit of the doubt.

BTW, I was never a tournamentaholic competitor, but I played in 4-8 PDGA events per year for a while. And I have co-TD'ed quite a few PDGA events (TD'ed one, but for the others I did not want the daytime and weekend TD responsibilities due to family priorities....which is the same reason I no longer compete in PDGA or other events). I have also been a PDGA official at several events. I have run A-Tiers and also 2 USDGC Monday qualifiers. Not that any of this makes me more or less special than anyone else, but hopefully it demonstrates that I care and that I am at least 1 notch above clueless in these matters.

 

[ERicJ]

PDGA Rule 801.04 Playing the Stipulated Course

A. It is the responsibility of the player to play the course correctly.

this just proves that the rulebook is garbage..you can bend most rules to work in your favor

Bending the "failure to hole out" rule to your benefit should be pretty obvious grounds for DQ.

PDGA Rule 804.05 Disqualification and Suspension

A. A player shall be disqualified by the director for meeting any of the necessary conditions of disqualification as set forth in the rules, or for any of the following:
(1) Unsportsmanlike conduct, such as; loud cursing, throwing things in anger (other than discs in play), or overt rudeness to anyone present.
(2) Willful and overt destruction or abuse of plant life, course hardware, or any other property considered part of the disc golf course or the park.
(3) Cheating: a willful attempt to circumvent the rules of play.
(4) Activities which are in violation of the law or park regulation or disc golf course rule, including the illegal consumption of drugs or alcohol.

 

[ERicJ]

this just proves that the rulebook is garbage..

If you want "garbage"... try taking the PDGA Officials Test. It's an Open Book "take home" test... couldn't be much easier unless they filled in the answers for you. Pretty much just certifies that the newly appointed Official has the ability to look up a rule in the rule book. Which I guess is better than nothing.

 

[A.Mutt]

That's not just garbage that's a freakin joke.

 

[Dave242]

It would be a total joke if PDGA officials had to make calls like officials do in action sports where you need to instaneously recognize a violation and then call it with finality. That is not the case in DG. The test is not hard, but it matches most of the needed skills to be an official. The other needed skills can be vetted out by the TD who "hires" officials.

And talking about hiring, there are precious few players who would rather give up their weekend from competing or doing their own thing to be an official....and only a handful of non-DGers who want to be officials. So, there are slim pickings to start with. What would you guys suggest for an officials certification procedure? Do you have any better and do-able ideas than what approach is now and the PDGA Marshall program?

 

[skottyb]

so here's another rule i can use to my advantage..let's say there's a tough par 5 and i "quit" after 2 shots...that means i get a 4?...sounds pretty lame..but as i have said before, the rule book is whacked and you can bend several rules to your advantage

No.. its par + 4 strokes.. so you would take a nine. par (5)+4 strokes = 9

 

[milow369]

so here's another rule i can use to my advantage..let's say there's a tough par 5 and i "quit" after 2 shots...that means i get a 4?...sounds pretty lame..but as i have said before, the rule book is whacked and you can bend several rules to your advantage

No, I understand it to be 4 throws more than the stated par. It would be a 9

 

[80playedin10states]

it isn't par plus 4...eric informed us of that...only par plus four if you show up late...ridiculous stuff huh? he quoted the rule book and it states 2 strokes will be added for a non finished hole...or a dq...

 

[Roc1Time]

Hole 21, 08 Java Classic

LOL Rob...

What happened?

 

[ERicJ]

It would be a total joke if PDGA officials had to make calls like officials do in action sports where you need to instaneously recognize a violation and then call it with finality. That is not the case in DG. The test is not hard, but it matches most of the needed skills to be an official. The other needed skills can be vetted out by the TD who "hires" officials.

And talking about hiring, there are precious few players who would rather give up their weekend from competing or doing their own thing to be an official....and only a handful of non-DGers who want to be officials. So, there are slim pickings to start with. What would you guys suggest for an officials certification procedure? Do you have any better and do-able ideas than what approach is now and the PDGA Marshall program?

Good points Dave. Especially on people willing to "staff" an event vs. playing themselves. I've seen that personally while helping run our A-Tier state championships.

If the goal of the officials program is to certify people who can look up rules in a book, then the existing program is sufficient. If you want players that actually know the rules without the book you'd have to give them a closed book test. Tournaments are already busy enough, but you could have some tests administered between rounds. There's really no work required other than handing out the test and collecting the tests at the end of a time limit.

I think more people would probably take the test if (a) they knew how easy it was to pass, and (b) they knew it was free to current members of a PDGA local affiliate club.

 

[BullBurner]

"A. A player shall be disqualified by the director for meeting any of the necessary conditions of disqualification as set forth in the rules, or for any of the following:
(1) Unsportsmanlike conduct, such as; loud cursing, throwing things in anger (other than discs in play), or overt rudeness to anyone present."

Haha that is hilarious that they had to put that in there. I have certainly been guilty of this a few times

 

[Roc1Time]

"A. A player shall be disqualified by the director for meeting any of the necessary conditions of disqualification as set forth in the rules, or for any of the following:
(1) Unsportsmanlike conduct, such as; loud cursing, throwing things in anger (other than discs in play), or overt rudeness to anyone present."

Haha that is hilarious that they had to put that in there. I have certainly been guilty of this a few times

And thats why my nickname is Anger Management.

 

[jhgonzo]

I've seen people throw their bags in anger during a tourney...I don't think they should get DQ'd; they should get a stroke for every disc that's in their bag.

 

[roadtripstuff]

"A. A player shall be disqualified by the director for meeting any of the necessary conditions of disqualification as set forth in the rules, or for any of the following:
(1) Unsportsmanlike conduct, such as; loud cursing, throwing things in anger (other than discs in play), or overt rudeness to anyone present."

Haha that is hilarious that they had to put that in there. I have certainly been guilty of this a few times

I think most of us have been there at some point.

 

[Roc1Time]

Not me

 

[Johnnyfats]

Man it was crazy how hot and humid it was at that tournament. I was thinking about playing but my fat ass would have passed out for sure.

 

[craigg]

I've seen people throw their bags in anger during a tourney...I don't think they should get DQ'd; they should get a stroke for every disc that's in their bag.

I was at a tournament where this happened one time. Dude got a 13 stroke penalty for slamming his bag into the basket