Define "Professional" Disc Golfer

[BogeyNoMore]

If they play for money, they are by definition of the word, "professional."

I disagree.

Earning a living via one's profession, is what makes one a professional. Simply making a bit of money doing something doesn't make you a professional.

Someone hits the poker table at the casino every week, and plays in tournaments. They're pretty good, and over the course of the year, they're up $5K - $10K. They'd starve as a professional poker player.

That person's profession is something other than poker. Poker's just a hobby/activity that they happen to be good enough at to win some dough.

Substitute DG, bowling, or pretty much anything you want for poker, it's all the same.

 

[ray1970]

Earning a living via one's profession, is what makes one a professional.

Like when I fire up the grill and make some burgers. They might be excellent burgers but I'm definitely not as professional as the kids at McDonalds that do it for a living.

 

[GripEnemy]

"Is being a professional disc golfer too easy?"

- next OMD thread

 

[DanJon]

"Is being a professional disc golfer too easy?"

- next OMD thread

Make Pro Disc Golfers 30% smaller.

 

[Steve West]

Horse left the barn on that many years ago as I pointed out. Little chance that will ever become a requirement, just remain an option for TDs if they want to run that format, more likely for charity events.

Sometimes you just need to get a new horse.

 

[seedlings]

How much does the local pro at a park and rec ball golf course make? Pro at a local tennis club? I really don't know.

 

[Hampstead]

$75 says I'm a card carrying professional disc golfer.

 

[dehaas]

So let's pause for a minute and filter things and let them soak in:

Everybody here agrees there's a big difference between the few making a living playing dg and the "local pros" who snipe stray cash here and there and get stomped when real talent shows up.

Some legit discussion follows.

Internet agrees "The Champ" may be "The Champ" but never "A Pro".

Trophy only suggestion presented for ams. Nobody cares about people bragging online about how cool their vouchers are. If you wanna brag at least try to impress people with them dolla dolla bills.

Somebody with PDGA street cred blames the definition of ams and gives the rationale of "that's how it's always been" and implies no change on the horizon.

As much as we all gag when we hear "grow the sport" the PDGA is completely in the position to do so. True ams play for trophies…tournament entry fees theoretically drop substantially because there's no payout. Lower cost to play should mean more players. Growing the sport, right? True competitors don't need anything on the line. Everybody knows that guy who puts forth max effort just to say they beat you, simple as that. Player packs are still kosher…you can continue the "am scam" model and let the difference between wholesale and retail be how TD's pay themselves for their time and effort…or…we're all adults here so follow along…there's actual transparency and on paper TD's can show they're paying themselves and nobody cries about it. Doesn't have to be hidden.

100% PDGA made the bed they currently sleep in and doesn't appear to have any intention on fixing it. This is probably gonna across brutally harsh, and I'm all about people having the ability to make a living. At some point in the past somebody caved and said it was cool for vendors to run tournaments and offer merch instead of cash and that's how the "am scam" began. At the time that was considered "growing the sport" and like all stagnant organizations it's allowed to ride free and clear without fresh thought.

At this point I run way more than I dg. Race entry budget far exceeds disc purchase budget at this point. Ultramarathons range typically from $50-250 depending on distance and amount of support provided typically. The ultra scene is very much grassroots just like dg. Normally I receive a shirt and a finisher medal, no payouts unless you're setting a course record or winning a big race somewhere. Like dg a lot of race directors will put on one race a year and it's a labor of love. Others host multiples and that's what they do for a living…nobody bats an eye at the fact that part of your entry goes straight to the race director.

They're providing a service…that has value to others. Again, we're all adults?

The resistance to fix a lot of the issues the PDGA created in the first place seems to be they don't want to go back against themselves? That doesn't come across as very growth oriented to me?

I'd love to be proven otherwise. The sport is at a very pivotal point. Covid boom practically handed over way more opportunity than any genius marketing team could ever conjure up.

 

[uncle pennybags]

This year I hit two aces in competitve play. $150 for one and $125 for the other (in the same week!)......does this make me a professional disc golfer or maybe a disc golf acer??

opcorn:

 

[Billipo]

Maybe do it like ball golf.... Disc Golf Pro versus Professional Golfer

 

[foxdawg10]

Maybe do it like ball golf.... Disc Golf Pro versus Professional Golfer

That's not how this works, that's not how any of this works...

 

[foxdawg10]

How much does the local pro at a park and rec ball golf course make? Pro at a local tennis club? I really don't know.

There is a new site called Google.com that could give you some information on that question, lol.

Golf and Tennis Pros aren't what we are talking about here though. They are people actively running golf and tennis clubs as their job, or maybe giving lessons for pay. They aren't the same as average people joining tournies who may or may not win money in said tournament.

 

[autocrosscrx]

So my first hobby is autocross. There are regional events and then there is a National Tour series and a Pro Solo series that lead to national championships in each. There are a handful of professional race car drivers that do it, but it is amateur motorsports. You can win some money and you can win contingency money. I typically don't win contingency, but I had a Pro Solo go my way this year and I got a check from Toyota Motorsports and store credit from Hawk Brake Pads. I was on Yokohama tires and they don't pay, but other tire companies have paid me in cash and product for doing well on their tires and running their stickers. But it takes pretty extraordinary circumstances to break even and earning a living is off the table.

Anyway, most local events have an indexed class to both allow the top drivers to compete against each other and to isolate the more casual drivers from getting discouraged by those folks. We generally call it "Pro Class". And I feel really uncomfortable with that. I try to not say that I run "Pro" and instead say that I run Index class or PAX Class (which is the name of the index). Or if I say it, I give the finger quotes.

So I get the OP's sentiment. With that said, we got people that are the equivalent of 920 rated players that run in Pro class and get stomped every single time, yet take great pride in running Pro. That doesn't really bother me.

 

[seedlings]

There is a new site called Google.com that could give you some information on that question, lol.

Golf and Tennis Pros aren't what we are talking about here though. They are people actively running golf and tennis clubs as their job, or maybe giving lessons for pay. They aren't the same as average people joining tournies who may or may not win money in said tournament.

Yes. My point is that even in ball golf and tennis there are differences between Pros and Pros.

 

[autocrosscrx]

Yes. My point is that even in ball golf and tennis there are differences between Pros and Pros.

It just doesn't see relevant to this conversation.

A golf pro might go to college to get a degree in that field, then go get professional certification, then apply for a job, and interview and get chosen.

That's like apples to elephants to compare to a dude that plays local disc golf tournaments in open.

 

[DavidSauls]

I think there are enough definitions of "professional", and use of the word in other sports and the wider world, that we can pick whichever one suits our purposes.

Disc golf has long used the word to draw a sharp line through a vague field of players. The 950-rated player winning $40 last cash in MPO, and the 950-rated player getting a $100 players pack and $200 prize merch in MA1, are both semi-pros in my eyes.

But "Pro" and "Am" also have useful purposes for us: to clear distinguish the top divisions from the others, in a way that anyone can recognize, and to do so with very short words.

Myself? I'll have it both ways -- as an everyday description of players in certain divisions, while also thinking of "Professional Disc Golfer" as one of the small number of people who are making a living from playing disc golf.

 

[foxdawg10]

I think there are enough definitions of "professional", and use of the word in other sports and the wider world, that we can pick whichever one suits our purposes.

Disc golf has long used the word to draw a sharp line through a vague field of players. The 950-rated player winning $40 last cash in MPO, and the 950-rated player getting a $100 players pack and $200 prize merch in MA1, are both semi-pros in my eyes.

But "Pro" and "Am" also have useful purposes for us: to clear distinguish the top divisions from the others, in a way that anyone can recognize, and to do so with very short words.

Myself? I'll have it both ways -- as an everyday description of players in certain divisions, while also thinking of "Professional Disc Golfer" as one of the small number of people who are making a living from playing disc golf.

I can see your point, to a point. I see the vast majority of disc golfers as recreational.
Calling someone who wins $50 at a tourney a semi pro seems a big stretch to me and is more of a marketing tool than anything else. Give someone the hope that at some point they will win money at this game, and they will keep buying more discs than they will ever possibly need.

I have won a modest amount of money at this game, and in the larger world I have no problem calling myself a recreational player. I don't within the dg community because that is not how we define ourselves.

 

[DavidSauls]

Though I like the concept that receiving cash makes you a "professional". It means that in my life, I've been a professional in many activities, going back to a professional take-the-garbage-out person with my allowance as a kid.

 

[seedlings]

It just doesn't see relevant to this conversation.

A golf pro might go to college to get a degree in that field, then go get professional certification, then apply for a job, and interview and get chosen.

That's like apples to elephants to compare to a dude that plays local disc golf tournaments in open.

Fair enough. As I said, I didn't know how it worked. Please disregard.

 

[oldmandiscer]

This just in, All NWSL players are not professional soccer players.


Currently, the minimum player salary for the 2021 NWSL season is $22,000 and the maximum player salary is $52,500,

It's a minor league. Do they record the games even? Show them on TV? Is it on youtube only like disc golf? I have no idea since I've never seen it covered once which proves my point. It's a minor league.

https://www.comparably.com/salaries/salaries-for-minor-league-football

There are minor league football leagues too where the players make little. Not to mention baseball and numerous other sports.

They (NWSL) certainly are not being unfairly uncompensated just because of their gender. It's a market driven pay. Unless you can prove to me how they are being taken advantage of and someone else is getting rich off of them then I don't see the argument at all.

Like the other minor league sports I doubt they are filling sold out stadiums, shown on primetime TV with multi-billion dollar TV Network deals.