brutalbrutus
* Ace Member *
Lol... I saw it live so i didn't bother to watch it.
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DGPT: 2021 MVP Open at Maple Hill Sept 3-5
- Thread starter brutalbrutus
- Start date
Lol... I saw it live so i didn't bother to watch it.
yeah youre right it could be worse
either way that angle on it and the stick was incredible
Really it's the exact same thing as Lizotte on 8 last year (same card as McBeth's weirdness).
https://www.discgolfnetwork.com/mvp-open/season:6/videos/2020-mvp-open-at-maple-hill-live-round-one
1:21:50
Simon throws OB in the pond on 8. Goes to drop zone, plays out the hole. After finishing, he goes to retrieve his original OB disc and discovers it might actually have been in bounds the whole time.
gammaxgoblin
Eagle Member
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2016
- Messages
- 820
haha yeah I see your point, except in this case the branch has a range of like 20 feet of movement and is like 10 feet from inbounds ....sometimes.
robdeforge
Double Eagle Member
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2014
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- 1,356
https://youtu.be/ApHyTw8ktlo?t=11289
eagle after his miss on 15: "so f****** annoying" (at least that's what I hear), wonder if he was talking about the reaction of fans
eagle after his miss on 15: "so f****** annoying" (at least that's what I hear), wonder if he was talking about the reaction of fans
Flick Maniac
* Ace Member *
Well she is young, isnt she? I dunno. I have to confess I rarely watch FPO other than when its thrown at me during MPO coverage. Not a judgement call, just dont enjoy watching it.
Anywhoo, I'd award the petulence prize of the day to Joel Freeman. I have seen him on video before, but never in such a complainy mood. Every shot was poised to have some words after it.
Anywhoo, I'd award the petulence prize of the day to Joel Freeman. I have seen him on video before, but never in such a complainy mood. Every shot was poised to have some words after it.
Wow, didn't know this happened last year, only the McBeth controversy. IDK what the final ruling was, but if this year's rule was applied, then wouldn't he have had 3 shots taken in error? He took a 2 based on his disc being in bounds. But since he didn't call provisional, those other shots were counted as what, playing from an improper lie, 3 times?
Anyone know how that one played out because it seems the ruling must have different than Kyle's from this year...
Whoever is in charge really needs to fix all these OB water issues. It's really ridiculous for a top notch tourney. I think this one has actually forced me to change my opinion on this entire issue as well. In watching the live coverage, and having a much better vantage point than the players because of the zoomed in camera angle, it looked ABSOLUTELY in the water. I was shocked it was not. And that is again with the zoomed in camera angle. No way any player could have guessed it was in bounds.
So what's the answer, play a provisional on EVERY throw just in case a human judgment error was made?
No, I think there should be a rule change addressing true human errors (including an official call--red flag--that turns out to be wrong) in cases like this. There is no cheating intended, and the entire card would agree they thought it was OB as well from the teepad. Do we want entire groups walking to landing zones for every OB hole, or throwing tons of provisionals?
Not sure what Simon's score on that hole ended up being, but it seems incredibly punitive if he had to take two strokes for every throw taken in error...what-is the entire group supposed to walk all the way over there? Honestly, Ricky's throw on that hole was VISIBLE from the teepad, even though it was OB. If anyone might have taken a provisional, it should have been him.
Everyone sort of praised Paul in the next round for taking the provisional he did, that he ended up winning his appeal on, but one has to wonder if this round 1 snafu is what set that chain of events in motion in his mind? Same hole even.
Rule x.yy: In cases where a throw appears to land out of bounds, and the entire card believes that to be the case, and/or a sanctioned spotter calls the throw OB, and a player then continues playing the hole from a designated drop zone, and upon reaching the landing zone of the original throw, it is determined by the majority of the card that the original throw was in fact in bounds, then all intervening throws after original throw (from the drop zone and subsequent throw) shall be discarded, with no penalties for having taken them.
the_lung
Eagle Member
Because while TD Steve Dodge is one of the most prolific idea men ever in disc golf, the fine details and the execution of events often suffer. Case in point, one year a player landed by an OB rope on hole#8 and questioned it. When the TD was asked about this rope by the PDGA Marshal, Steve replied "oh yeah, that's an old OB rope, we just ignore it."
(How was no thought ever given to actually removing this rope to prevent confusion???)
Another case in point, it's 11:00 am on the Monday following a DGPT Elite Series event and there are still no payouts posted on the PDGA page. Players and spectators have zero idea how much money each player earned in the tournament. That's inexcusable.
NOStheBOSS
Double Eagle Member
According to Brian Earhart and Nate Perkins, the MVP contract is up for the Maple Hill Open and there's a bidding war for the Title Sponsor
I bet there's a long list of wannabe sponsors for "The [Your Name Here] Open at Steve Dodge's House of Ambiguous OB 2022"
bwgort
Birdie Member
It's really not difficult to call provisional before you throw from the drop zone. Errors happen. As a player you should be smart enough to hedge against that risk.
I actually felt this same way even a couple days ago. But watching the stream of Simon's ob last year has changed my mind. Watch it if you haven't.
A provisional should be taken when there exists even a very small doubt. What if there is NO don't, but turns out the entire card is wrong? Can't be taking provisionals on every hole that has OB. There is round flow to consider, especially at big and/or live streamed events.
bwgort
Birdie Member
I actually felt this same way even a couple days ago. But watching the stream of Simon's ob last year has changed my mind. Watch it if you haven't.
A provisional should be taken when there exists even a very small doubt. What if there is NO don't, but turns out the entire card is wrong? Can't be taking provisionals on every hole that has OB. There is round flow to consider, especially at big and/or live streamed events.
I played the event this weekend and called provisional each time I went to the drop zone in case it was a close call. It's a really quick and easy thing.
Why, because you know who won or don't like watching him win?
Concerning the Klein situation, I'm glad there are rules and glad they are followed. I don't like the situation and I think it could be better, but it is difficult to get the wording right (as with everything). Someone posted earlier a good idea to counteract this situation, but provisionals are a breeding ground for loopholes; that suggested wording would only fix this situation. For instance, the current way the rule is worded allows for legal/unpenalized practice throws in many situations (809.02). All you have to do wait until you can't see where you landed and claim that the situation isn't clear and you want to throw a provisional, rethrowing from your previous lie (809.02.B.1.a). I like the way that 809.02.B.1.b starts much better: "(if) the group agrees."
Where I'm going is: a rule could be stated in such a way that if the group agrees to everything, this situation (and similar ones) could be avoided. Specific for this case, if the group agrees that the player played the hole appropriately with the knowledge that they had at the time of each throw, then there should be no penalty. I realize that its easy to say "provisional" before every drop zone/OB shot, but why are we requiring players to jump through this silly hoop when it can be avoided?
Where I'm going is: a rule could be stated in such a way that if the group agrees to everything, this situation (and similar ones) could be avoided. Specific for this case, if the group agrees that the player played the hole appropriately with the knowledge that they had at the time of each throw, then there should be no penalty. I realize that its easy to say "provisional" before every drop zone/OB shot, but why are we requiring players to jump through this silly hoop when it can be avoided?
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