Disc Golf Pro Tour

[Understable]

The biggest difference in dg and many other competitive sports is many disc golfers refuse to spend money and many Ams complain when they pay $50 for a tournament and do not get at least $50 in a players pack plus an am payout. The rooms during the gaming convention in downtown LA were at least $250/night and I am sure the tickets to the event were significant not to mention what meals and drinks cost.

My family are serious ball golfers. The father in law plays almost everyday and my wife was a serious am golfer growing up. When I talk about trying to plan tourneys and the frustration of making a budget that works they all scratch their heads at our sport.
- ball golfers hope to get dinner but not always expected
- ball golfers get a couple of rounds (including a warm-up round) included. That is all the expect
- Trophy for the winner then is it
- Players pack? No one has ever received a players pack
Disc golfers have got to move away from this must have list of 100% payout, 100% players pack, etc. It doesn't make most TDs want to put on better and better events because their entire budget is locked up in PPs.

And don't get me started with Pros. They expect +100% payout, lunch and the Am players pack would be nice also.

When are we expecting too much? You all want to be like Ball Golf except when you think you deserve even more.

 

[TimSyl]

We will update the Pro Tour Power Rankings every Tuesday. We are proud of the fact that we are the first ranking system that does not put an arbitrary weight on events because of their tier or location. Straight up wins and losses against Quality Players at Qualified Events. That's it.

Let us know your thoughts!

Have thought of producing trading cards of the players? Grandson is into disc golf and trading cards, bet they would be a hit with some folks.

 

[lyleoross]

Have thought of producing trading cards of the players? Grandson is into disc golf and trading cards, bet they would be a hit with some folks.

At Texas States, about six or seven years ago, Dave Nesbitt put together a pack of cards, playing cards, with the biggest names and faces in the sport. They were beautiful and sold nicely. He included them in the players pack, and sold them too. I don't know how they did overall as a sales item.

 

[allinpflop]

My family are serious ball golfers. The father in law plays almost everyday and my wife was a serious am golfer growing up. When I talk about trying to plan tourneys and the frustration of making a budget that works they all scratch their heads at our sport.
- ball golfers hope to get dinner but not always expected
- ball golfers get a couple of rounds (including a warm-up round) included. That is all the expect
- Trophy for the winner then is it
- Players pack? No one has ever received a players pack
Disc golfers have got to move away from this must have list of 100% payout, 100% players pack, etc. It doesn't make most TDs want to put on better and better events because their entire budget is locked up in PPs.

And don't get me started with Pros. They expect +100% payout, lunch and the Am players pack would be nice also.

When are we expecting too much? You all want to be like Ball Golf except when you think you deserve even more.

Are you really suprised? Most people are drawn to disc golf bc it is cheap to play....when you start with either poor people or cheap people (or both) why would you be suprised that people don't want spend any money unless they feel like they are going to get most of it back in products or payouts.

 

[TimSyl]

Are you really suprised? Most people are drawn to disc golf bc it is cheap to play....when you start with either poor people or cheap people (or both) why would you be suprised that people don't want spend any money unless they feel like they are going to get most of it back in products or payouts.

There have been numerous threads on this topic. I'm also from a golf background and the entitlement of discers is amazing. The fact people continue to TD tournaments floors me.

 

[lyleoross]

Are you really suprised? Most people are drawn to disc golf bc it is cheap to play....when you start with either poor people or cheap people (or both) why would you be suprised that people don't want spend any money unless they feel like they are going to get most of it back in products or payouts.

Wait, are you saying that ball golfers don't expect gifts/payout because they're already rich? I don't know the genesis of it, but the whole gift payout thing is part of the PDGA sanctioned event structure. Hazarding a guess, they set it up that way because they felt it was necessary to attract players to events. Don't know if that is warranted or not, but to some extent it follows the running model, where every runner gets a shirt and a goody bag. Running wasn't always that way either.

I'd have to wonder if you put the money into the event atmosphere, music etc., if players wouldn't prefer that to a "free" disc and some other trivial garbage? It's like the grab bags kids get at parties. They are hugely excited to get it, but two hours later, it's in the garbage or spread around my car, or in a bin someplace in the play room.

 

[allinpflop]

There have been numerous threads on this topic. I'm also from a golf background and the entitlement of discers is amazing. The fact people continue to TD tournaments floors me.

Everytime I say the only thing wrong with disc golf is disc golfers everyone gets mad but I really think that is the only thing holding the sport back. Start with a better class of people with more disposable income and watch how nice things become....I worked in the ball golf business for many years and really except for the basic concept of the game they have very few similarities.

 

[TimSyl]

Everytime I say the only thing wrong with disc golf is disc golfers everyone gets mad but I really think that is the only thing holding the sport back. Start with a better class of people with more disposable income and watch how nice things become....I worked in the ball golf business for many years and really except for the basic concept of the game they have very few similarities.

agreed. When non players ask me about "Frisbee Golf", I typically them I like the game...don't like most of the players.

 

[allinpflop]

Wait, are you saying that ball golfers don't expect gifts/payout because they're already rich? I don't know the genesis of it, but the whole gift payout thing is part of the PDGA sanctioned event structure. Hazarding a guess, they set it up that way because they felt it was necessary to attract players to events. Don't know if that is warranted or not, but to some extent it follows the running model, where every runner gets a shirt and a goody bag. Running wasn't always that way either.

I'd have to wonder if you put the money into the event atmosphere, music etc., if players wouldn't prefer that to a "free" disc and some other trivial garbage? It's like the grab bags kids get at parties. They are hugely excited to get it, but two hours later, it's in the garbage or spread around my car, or in a bin someplace in the play room.

Not rich but they are not poverty stricken....they can afford to pay greens fees and for expensive equipment. The expectation is very different in a competitive event. Of course golf outings and charity events with prizes still take place but that is a different thing all together from a sanctioned official tournament.

 

[ToddL]

My family are serious ball golfers. The father in law plays almost everyday and my wife was a serious am golfer growing up. When I talk about trying to plan tourneys and the frustration of making a budget that works they all scratch their heads at our sport.
- ball golfers hope to get dinner but not always expected
- ball golfers get a couple of rounds (including a warm-up round) included. That is all the expect
- Trophy for the winner then is it
- Players pack? No one has ever received a players pack
Disc golfers have got to move away from this must have list of 100% payout, 100% players pack, etc. It doesn't make most TDs want to put on better and better events because their entire budget is locked up in PPs.

And don't get me started with Pros. They expect +100% payout, lunch and the Am players pack would be nice also.

When are we expecting too much? You all want to be like Ball Golf except when you think you deserve even more.

How much would they pay for each round? There's a good chance that their entry fee is mostly eaten up by the greens fees for the 2-3 rounds that they get for the tournament.

 

[allinpflop]

How much would they pay for each round? There's a good chance that their entry fee is mostly eaten up by the greens fees for the 2-3 rounds that they get for the tournament.

That is where the problem lies....a ball golfer expects to pay greens fees....they don't expect to be able to play for free lIke a disc golfer does.....so when you have a tournament the ball golfer understands that money has to go somewhere....the disc golfer already plays for free so they want to know what's in it for them?

 

[donnyv]

The ones that give me chuckles are the dudes with $100 bags, filled full with discs and other stuff, yet can't fathom paying $5-10 for a round of disc. So they can afford the $200-500 for that stuff (prob tons more at home too) but can't afford to pay a few bucks to the course. Maybe buy less discs?

 

[disctildeath]

You know the problem I have with all of this talk about bashing people for being cheap or entitled is that most courses only exist with volunteer help and public support, don't know where people think a really well maintained course dedicated to being a challenging pro course will only cost like 5 bucks to play. Here's an idea, if you have a background in ball golf and don't like "disc golfers', then get out of OUR sport, because the people who want to do charity work, make it available to public, etc far outnumber the "spit on anyone who isn't carrying a 300 dollar grip bag" crowd. Do you people even know who Steady Ed was or the fact that disc golf was developed by him to be accessible, all this "professionalism" has done is ruin the sport. Hell watch old worlds videos, do ever see the players acting all pissy or childish because they had a bad round (Ron Russell being the noted exception lol), Funny with all the crisp professional collared shirts and payout standards and higher tourney fees you would think this wouldn't be the case. I mean for the most part pro disc golf is a backdoor welfare make work project, I mean how many tournaments can actually get paid spectators, probably 8 of 10 golfers couldn't care less who Paul McBeth is. I think maybe these outsiders don't realize how much of a minority they are, if they are so bothered by the tourney model, then start running your own non-sanctioned event, if your actually successful in bringing more people (good luck with no players pack), then float the idea to the PDGA to change the rules.

 

[TimSyl]

You know the problem I have with all of this talk about bashing people for being cheap or entitled is that most courses only exist with volunteer help and public support, don't know where people think a really well maintained course dedicated to being a challenging pro course will only cost like 5 bucks to play. Here's an idea, if you have a background in ball golf and don't like "disc golfers', then get out of OUR sport, because the people who want to do charity work, make it available to public, etc far outnumber the "spit on anyone who isn't carrying a 300 dollar grip bag" crowd. Do you people even know who Steady Ed was or the fact that disc golf was developed by him to be accessible, all this "professionalism" has done is ruin the sport. Hell watch old worlds videos, do ever see the players acting all pissy or childish because they had a bad round (Ron Russell being the noted exception lol), Funny with all the crisp professional collared shirts and payout standards and higher tourney fees you would think this wouldn't be the case. I mean for the most part pro disc golf is a backdoor welfare make work project, I mean how many tournaments can actually get paid spectators, probably 8 of 10 golfers couldn't care less who Paul McBeth is. I think maybe these outsiders don't realize how much of a minority they are, if they are so bothered by the tourney model, then start running your own non-sanctioned event, if your actually successful in bringing more people (good luck with no players pack), then float the idea to the PDGA to change the rules.

Well, I am one of two volunteers who do most of the maintenance at a 36 hole complex. I also designed and put in a course at a YMCA camp. I helped redesign and install another course nearby. I received $0. So, yes, I give back to the sport. But, I'm still amazed discers expect something equal to or more back for their tourney entry fee and/or complain about paying a couple bucks to play a course.

 

[allinpflop]

You know the problem I have with all of this talk about bashing people for being cheap or entitled is that most courses only exist with volunteer help and public support, don't know where people think a really well maintained course dedicated to being a challenging pro course will only cost like 5 bucks to play. Here's an idea, if you have a background in ball golf and don't like "disc golfers', then get out of OUR sport, because the people who want to do charity work, make it available to public, etc far outnumber the "spit on anyone who isn't carrying a 300 dollar grip bag" crowd. Do you people even know who Steady Ed was or the fact that disc golf was developed by him to be accessible, all this "professionalism" has done is ruin the sport. Hell watch old worlds videos, do ever see the players acting all pissy or childish because they had a bad round (Ron Russell being the noted exception lol), Funny with all the crisp professional collared shirts and payout standards and higher tourney fees you would think this wouldn't be the case. I mean for the most part pro disc golf is a backdoor welfare make work project, I mean how many tournaments can actually get paid spectators, probably 8 of 10 golfers couldn't care less who Paul McBeth is. I think maybe these outsiders don't realize how much of a minority they are, if they are so bothered by the tourney model, then start running your own non-sanctioned event, if your actually successful in bringing more people (good luck with no players pack), then float the idea to the PDGA to change the rules.

Wow......that's quite a post.....
I'm not sue I can make heads or tails of what you are trying to say.....I don't dislike the pdga or tournaments....I'm in favor of tds actually making a few dollars and disc golfers feeling like the tournament itself has value and paying an entry fee that doesn't require a player pack that equals the entry fee. I see the sacrifice of time and effort from our best tds and wonder why they do it since disc golfers complain about everything.....I also believe pay to play is the best model.....playing in Maine where most courses are pay to play and on private land is a great model and one that I wish would catch on everywhere.....as far as tournament players behaving badly I don't know what that has to do with the discussion at all. Paid spectators also doesn't seem to have any bearing on this discussion.....

 

[DGPT]

The Pro Tour is built to

• showcase the best in our sport
• bring spectators to watch and participate
• spread the culture of the disc
• and give back.

http://www.discgolfprotour.com/tour.html

I come from an all-around disc sports background. My first tourney was VA States which has disc golf, distance, maximum-time-aloft (MTA), accuracy, double disc court (DDC) and freestyle competitions. After the tourney, there is always a pick up Ultimate game. This event taught me what disc is all about: honor, respect, giving back, having fun, accepting, and loving the time that is disc.

The goal of the Pro Tour, through the festival, the freestyle demos, the touring pro clinics, the donations to St. Jude, is to bring people to the culture of the disc by showcasing the best disc golfers on the planet. Huge thanks to great sponsors like Zuca Cart, Nite Ize, Tribaloid Video Games (yes, they are making a killer disc golf game), KEEN, and Dude apparel for stepping up to help make this happen.

Disc golfers are wonderful people. By definition we are fringe. We are willing to try new things, things that until recently, most people had never even heard of. We are special and great and it is critical that, as the sport goes mainstream - and this will happen whether we push it that way or not - we work to maintain what makes us unique and special.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

-spread the culture of the disc...

what disc is all about: honor, respect, giving back, having fun, accepting, and loving the time that is disc.

We are special and great and it is critical that, as the sport goes mainstream - and this will happen whether we push it that way or not - we work to maintain what makes us unique and special.

i smell tea leaves. The thing about disc golf is its not all that unique or special. Its pretty inclusive of all types of people as a hobby. Now the sport side of touraments and those players i really question the idea of any spirit...

 

[Jenga54]

i smell tea leaves. The thing about disc golf is its not all that unique or special. Its pretty inclusive of all types of people as a hobby. Now the sport side of touraments and those players i really question the idea of any spirit...

I think it's incredible to see this tour's plan for year one! The beauty of sport is that it can bridge from the least competitive to the highest level. Once a year at the family reunion we play some baseball, and the arm hurts every year. All the way up to the MLB. I don't question the players' passion because it's ultra competitive. Watching pros can inspire the hobbyist. I don't think this thread is to discuss AM payouts or the fact that there are bad people in the world - that's what the rest of DGCR is for.. But to highlight what this tour is doing. I'll be bringing the family with 3 kids to see the event in St Paul!

 

[lyleoross]

agreed. When non players ask me about "Frisbee Golf", I typically them I like the game...don't like most of the players.

I'm gonna take some exception here. The underlying gist of these comments, "that ball golf has a better class of people" is BS. I've dealt with disc golfers for twenty years now, and they're a pretty generous lot, giving hours of time and effort to the sport. If you're looking for universal adultness, you're not going to get it, anywhere. Personally, I like most of the players, I've met a few who are less tolerable, but most of those are like Nikko, great people off the course, so competitive on the course that they lose perspective.

As to ball golfers, really, you're gonna hold them up as your model? It feels like the judgment is that they are good because they have money, and IMO that's a piss poor measure of the quality of a person. I understand there may be some disagreement on this but go back and read the post that Tim replied to.

Ball golf is a universal disaster beginning with exclusive clubs that only allow certain kinds of people, going straight to being an environmental disaster, and finishing with a sport pretty much directed at rich people, that pays staff minimum wages at best. I'm not impressed. Now, unlike the comments here, some of my best friends play ball golf (no really, dry yawn). They tell me about the beer carts with hot babes, the martini driven matches, and their all to expensive golf clubs. And to make sure I'm clear, I live in a neighborhood where the given sport is ball golf, and people wonder what those funny discs I have in my car are.

The truth is that each sport has good and bad people, but that one is a pay to play model, and the other is primarily driven by volunteers. On the other hand, I will place the environmental impact of the two sports side by side any day.

 

[lyleoross]

I want to follow the conversations here up. In the 1930s it was generally acknowledged that there should be avenues of entertainment for the poor and middle class in this country. Public parks, public venues that were cheap or no cost. It was thought that these things would be good and healthy, and would help to build character. If my recollections serves me, Central Park in New York was built to address this notion. Not everything was supposed to cost money or be a profit center. Camping was the poor man's activity, rich people went to retreats, call them spas if you will. Somehow, since Ronnie Reagan, we've gone down this path that everything should be for profit, and that poor people were a lazy shiftless lot trying to take advantage. I take some pride in the fact that disc golf is inclusive, that it can be played by anyone on any day, indeed, those are it's roots, a bunch of California hippies throwing discs around and inventing fun games.

I'm excited to see that disc golf increasingly is able to accommodate both those out to play for money, and those who want a viable inexpensive activity to participate in. I'm all for building pay to play venues for those who want a better class of people, so to speak, but I'd hate to see us lose the volunteer, all inclusive aspect of our sport. And when I say better class of people I mean it. The posts here are written more carefully, but that is exactly what they are saying. People who want to spend some money, not those cheap buggers, people who conduct themselves in a certain fashion, what ever that might be. Making such distinctions, no matter what they're based on, bothers me. Not wanting to spend money, or even possibly, not having any disposable income isn't a crime, it isn't a character flaw, it's a reality in a country that has shipped a big chunk of its manual labor jobs over to China, and where the remaining jobs are often in the service industry and pay very low wages. When you're looking at $20 for a disc, or feeding your family, you might just be a cheap bugger.