Does thick rough take away from a quality course?

[davetherocketguy]

As others have stated I like the presence of rough as it motivates me to throw accurately. But there are different kinds of rough. There's the forested pricker laden stuff adorned with copious amounts of poison ivy which believe it or not, I will gladly take over tall prairie grass rough where you have little to no hope of finding discs. I really don't mind being penalized for bad throws but to be penalized and having no hope of finding my disc is a little maddening. Of course, the same could be said for water hazards but we're talking about rough here. Besides, most water hazards add to the beauty of a course so I don't mind it as much.

Forested rough there is almost always hope of finding your disc and the next shot is almost always very challenging so successful shots out of the rough are especially rewarding. Prairie grass isn't like that - assuming you can find your disc. The shot from the rough is usually pretty open and easy. Not a lot of penalty other than the search...

 

[little oz]

Goats are impressive for what they'll eat. We use to have a lot of them and moved to a new house. Had a section where an old barn used to be all grown over with viney messes, briars, and some random trees. You couldn't walk through it if you tried.......and then there were just trees left.

The bad thing is - they also love flowers, decorative bushes, and other things you want left alive - so keeping them where you want them can be a PITA as they are excellent escape artists.

My home course in Colorado (Jellystone) have goats on the course for maintenance, and they do a great job. Plus, you can rent a goat to caddy for you, but it's around $25.

 

[DavidSauls]

In 2007, when we reached the point at Stoney Hill that we held a tournament, the rough was absolutely brutal. We had a great assortment of thorns, dominated by blackberries, in dense patches on the edges of fairways.

We were out of our minds. We know that now. Back then, we joked that we invited people out for a tournament just so they'd beat down the thickets.

We've made great headway since so that, while you can find some terrible lies by missing the fairway, and sometimes have to pitch out, lost discs and major blood loss are much rarer.

 

[ru4por]

The new Belle Isle course here in Detroit has a hole on which the right side of the fairway is hip high poison ivy...a large area covering most of that side of the fairway for 10ft deep. That is one of the only unfair and bothersome "rough", I have played. I like rough, bring it on.

 

[knettles]

As others have stated I like the presence of rough as it motivates me to throw accurately. But there are different kinds of rough. There's the forested pricker laden stuff adorned with copious amounts of poison ivy which believe it or not, I will gladly take over tall prairie grass rough where you have little to no hope of finding discs. I really don't mind being penalized for bad throws but to be penalized and having no hope of finding my disc is a little maddening. Of course, the same could be said for water hazards but we're talking about rough here. Besides, most water hazards add to the beauty of a course so I don't mind it as much.

Forested rough there is almost always hope of finding your disc and the next shot is almost always very challenging so successful shots out of the rough are especially rewarding. Prairie grass isn't like that - assuming you can find your disc. The shot from the rough is usually pretty open and easy. Not a lot of penalty other than the search...

This sums up my thoughts. Unless the tall grass is very far from the fairway, I don't like it. But I'm completely ok with bushes, brush, vines, thorns, saplings, etc. Tall grass has gotta go.

 

[elmexdela]

stay on the fairway and dont worry about it

 

[Tfire25]

My home course in Colorado (Jellystone) have goats on the course for maintenance, and they do a great job. Plus, you can rent a goat to caddy for you, but it's around $25.

Wait..... What? How did this get ignored? Goat caddies? This needs to catch on. I'm going to have to buy some goats. Like tomorrow.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Playing a course with thick rough is like dating a chick with 70s porn bush, you're going to have fun either way but should you really have to deal will all that mess???

lulz

 

[DiscJunkie]

Don't mind thick rough, but why is the thick rough usually worse on the right side of the fairway??
Think about it.

Really don't mind thick rough, just not so bad I can't find my disc, and not so bad that I risk my safety, or Poison Allergies, or blood loss.

 

[mmueller]

I'm the developer and owner of Haybro, course that triggered the conversation. The brush on the course is still really thick in places (in the rough and beyond for the most part), but it's come a long way in a couple months of back breaking work. In the beginning I had to come up with a basic set rules to try to make the effort manageable. It came down to 3 things: flight path visibility; more time playing/less time looking for discs; and basic play-ability. They seem to be working well, and there has been positive feedback.

An important goal was to have some decent flight paths off the tee, and a couple good, though sometimes narrow fairways. Being on a mountain side, a common shot is to throw a hyzer out over the valley and have it come back to land safely on the green, thus the fairway for some is nothing more then the preferred way to get to the green.

Another critical rule was to have maximum visibility of a disc's flight path to minimize guessing where it landed. This made a major difference, especially on the 2 drives that shoot out over a 60' - 100' drop. Having the disc descend behind a thick row of brush shortly after leaving the pad makes it difficult to impossible to estimate the landing zone and find the disc.

When it comes to the lower flat areas with tall grass, potentella and sarvis brush I figured that every hour that I spent with a brush cutter or weed eater would probably save me and a lot of other people the same amount of time or more going forward - even in OB and roughs. That has paid off many times over. Smaller random clumps of _features_ like sage, some sarvis and the _elephant_ grass were left, which looks nice while still allowing quick and easy search of large areas.

For the heavy stuff up on the mountain areas I assigned each species a priority and around each bush or whatever I thinned everything out that was of a lower priority. For example, I'd clear the dense sarvis and potentella out from under old scrub oaks that are common on the course and look great with a little care. The big masses of sarvis I'd thin into one or more smaller groups. Naturally, the clearing was more agressive on the greens and fairways, tapering in the rough and beyond. The goal is to have more of a disc friendly enchanted forest look then an ornamental garden.

Hopefully the end result will be that the bush will be there but not overwhelm or get in the way of what you are looking for, and it will be nice without looking too groomed.

Thanks to everyone that has weighed in on this. It's great info.

 

[davetherocketguy]

stay on the fairway and dont worry about it

 

[DavidSauls]

In direct answer to the course thread....while I may curse dense rough, most of my favorite courses have it, at least in places. It hasn't taken enough away from the quality of those courses to keep them from being among my favorites.

 

[denny ritner]

Course on a campground near me does great fairway maintenance but the grounds crew dumps all of the crap into the closest rough. This practice has basically provided a trellis for the thorns to grow huge.

This^ It can be hard to resist hauling that fallen tree limb into the rough. It can also look nice for a while to use cut trees to line the fairways, but all that stuff needs to be hauled off or mulched.

It does take time to get a new wooded course into shape and I don't take points off on a review score, but it does detract from my experience and does need to be mentioned if it's difficult to find discs just off the fairway and/or there are physical hazards such as thorns, snakes, vines, etc.

I get dinged for thick rough on my favorite course and don't fault the reviewers.

 

[denny ritner]

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=6976

It's a brand new course. Just starting to get some groups of travelers out to play it. It's definately thick wood foliage kinda stuff. No real tall grass. Hopefully some of you guys make it out to our quiet little corner of Colorado to check it out. We have another new course too, so its worth the trip. Ill try to get pictures of the all the holes up soon.

"Hole Info. Notes: 5, 6, 8, 10, 11, 15, 16, and 17 are blind from the primary tees. Spotters are encouraged for less accurate players. Please use online or other course guides to navigate (on the links/files tab, udisc app). "

Mountain course with half the tee shots blind? Hmmm

 

[DavidSauls]

I get dinged for thick rough on my favorite course and don't fault the reviewers.

Same here. Heck, I dinged my own course for it. How could I fault others?

 

[1978]

If your fairways are fair (wide with out secret trees, for the most part widening at the end) and airways clear (canopy trimmed) and the greens are wide enough (35' of putting room +10' of cleared (moderately obstructed) putting room...I dont care how much rough there is. If you give me a 350' shot with a landing strip of 30', that is unfair. If you give me 60' landing strip and the rough is terrible its my fault for going in there.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

exactly^ -- rough, rough is fine when used right and not just deferred maintenance.

 

[bobmcnelly]

"Hole Info. Notes: 5, 6, 8, 10, 11, 15, 16, and 17 are blind from the primary tees. Spotters are encouraged for less accurate players. Please use online or other course guides to navigate (on the links/files tab, udisc app). "

Mountain course with half the tee shots blind? Hmmm

Sort of the reason we are trying to thin the rough as much as possible.

 

[mmueller]

"Hole Info. Notes: 5, 6, 8, 10, 11, 15, 16, and 17 are blind from the primary tees. Spotters are encouraged for less accurate players. Please use online or other course guides to navigate (on the links/files tab, udisc app). "

Mountain course with half the tee shots blind? Hmmm

I spent 6 months in Portland and played many great courses in and around the area. From what I remember, a majority of the holes in the better/popular courses were blind and I was glad to bring whatever part of my brain that situation required into the game. Someone will correct me, but I think close, if not all 18 holes of L.L. Stubs are blind. That is a hilly, fun course and I'd be sad to see the blind shots go.

One of the first things that I ask people on the course you mention is if they mind the blind baskets - none of the out-of-towners have complained yet and some are surprised when I ask - and I've seen lots of these guys park their first ever shots for those holes.

 

[bobmcnelly]

Bump!

So I just added almost all 18 holes into the pictures of the course, so you guys can kind of see the rough on the sides of the fairway.

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=6976