Fanboys and plastic worship

[wolfmandragon]

I feel like if overmolds were really far superior to none overmolded discs then every competitive person would use them and this is just not the case.

Overmolds arn't better...they are different. They work for some and don't for others.

 

[JTacoma03]

Dipping toes. Haven't YET that you know of, not can't. Trying more normal stuff these days.

And there's a lot going on within this nebulous "the rim" thing... you can't look at 100 variations of rim and say that rims are rims and they're already heavy so case closed. Rims are pointy... it matters when the smaller and further-from-the-lever end is heavier than the larger end.

And overzealous brand fans are the worst, just enjoy your stuff it's not a religion.

Very fair point, I should have said "haven't". Wasn't meaning to imply that they couldn't.

FWIW I'm also not trying to say their discs aren't different, I just haven't seen the data that I personally need to see to believe that the difference correlates to being a superior product. Not that they're required to prove that to be a viable competitor in the space, but that seems to be the impetus behind the GYRO marketing.

To that end, it feels like the aforementioned marketing paradox.

Doesn't McBeth use an Atlas or whatever that Innova overmold is?

Strangely he was not throwing it at USDGC this past year, even though that disc basically won him the tournament with the throw on 17 back in 2015

 

[ZAMson]

I feel like if overmolds were really far superior to none overmolded discs then every competitive person would use them and this is just not the case.

I think whatever discs you know are superior. If your game is moldable clay, then weighted overmolds have a great flight. If you're most comfortable with normal discs, those are better for you immediately. Tons of people have started playing since 2013 or so when a GYRO bag became a viable option, and those are who I think would enjoy these most. I've never tried to convert a friend and I don't even think people should add discs to a solid setup. Give it time is how I see the pro-vermold bag.

 

[ejvogie]

I should have specified it to MVP molds where GYRO is a thing. For innova they do it for grip.

I'm not buying it. OK, maybe just a very little. But I don't grip my discs on the rim. And those compass points? :gross:

 

[Arisugawa]

There is way way more to this game between the ears then that round chunk of plastic in the hand.

I wish this was something more commonly understood. Or at the very least recognized on an individual level.

I've seen far too many people swap in a new disc, or switching manufacturers, or retooling one's bag to be all one manufacturer's discs in the belief that it will solve problems that are largely mental.

Switching tools can help so long as one is aware of why the switch is being made. But I've seen too many switches made either out of desperation, ignorance, or in the case of some of the examples in the thread, at the insistence of a fellow golfer.

And I'm certainly guilty of this as well, or have been in the past at the very least.

 

[Mushin No Shin]

Weren't their threads on here a decade ago, about Gateways McCormack creating the Overmold dealio?

 

[ejvogie]

Pretty sure Voit had some overmolded lids back in the day. So the local old-timer said every. Single. Time. I threw my Volt :|

 

[wolfmandragon]

Whom will be the first to offer a tri mold? I think golf balls are up to 4 layers now, why should they have all the fun?

I only say this half jokingly, I can see the different densities and flex allowing for better 'hyperflight', I beleive I heard it called.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Whom will be the first to offer a tri mold? I think golf balls are up to 4 layers now, why should they have all the fun?

I only say this half jokingly, I can see the different densities and flex allowing for better 'hyperflight', I beleive I heard it called.

Either you're on to something or ON something...

IALTO

 

[jakebake91]

Whom will be the first to offer a tri mold? I think golf balls are up to 4 layers now, why should they have all the fun?

I only say this half jokingly, I can see the different densities and flex allowing for better 'hyperflight', I beleive I heard it called.

Those discs are gonna get spendy....

 

[wolfmandragon]

Those discs are gonna get spendy....

Calaway driver $699.99
Titleist Pro V1 Golf Balls $47.99 a dozen.

As dg grows, so will the demand for better performing equipment. While we may not see discs at 800 bucks apeice, I beleive that within a couple years we will see higher tech materials and better R&D on 'tour' level discs; requiring $50-$75 shell out per disc. These will sell if they shave strokes off ones game.

They may not sell many to the common player, but that will sell to the competive am and lower ranked pros. They will make money on the higher markup per disc, not quanity.

I perdict by the end of 2020, we will see if I am right.

 

[wolfmandragon]

Either you're on to something or ON something...

IALTO

sleep depravation

 

[jakebake91]

Calaway driver $699.99
Titleist Pro V1 Golf Balls $47.99 a dozen.

As dg grows, so will the demand for better performing equipment. While we may not see discs at 800 bucks apeice, I beleive that within a couple years we will see higher tech materials and better R&D on 'tour' level discs; requiring $50-$75 shell out per disc. These will sell if they shave strokes off ones game.

They may not sell many to the common player, but that will sell to the competive am and lower ranked pros. They will make money on the higher markup per disc, not quanity.

I perdict by the end of 2020, we will see if I am right.

but would they sell enough to justify the cost and production/engineering headaches of such a venture? Im not so sure i see the return. The higher markup would offset tooling/production/engineering costs, but then you're not making any more profit than a regular disc. So why bother? Not saying it wouldn't sweet to see (especially for me!) but im not seeing it.

 

[Sharkbite]

Most of my disc are unstamped, which is somewhat ironic because I am so passionate about Gateway. I don't brag about what I throw but when people ask I tell them.

 

[JTacoma03]

Calaway driver $699.99
Titleist Pro V1 Golf Balls $47.99 a dozen.

As dg grows, so will the demand for better performing equipment. While we may not see discs at 800 bucks apeice, I beleive that within a couple years we will see higher tech materials and better R&D on 'tour' level discs; requiring $50-$75 shell out per disc. These will sell if they shave strokes off ones game.

They may not sell many to the common player, but that will sell to the competive am and lower ranked pros. They will make money on the higher markup per disc, not quanity.

I perdict by the end of 2020, we will see if I am right.

I think you're spot on in your speculation here. I don't know about the timeframe because I think the first manufacturer will meet heavier resistance, and then the 2nd company to do it will be successful, but no doubt it will happen.

but would they sell enough to justify the cost and production/engineering headaches of such a venture? Im not so sure i see the return. The higher markup would offset tooling/production/engineering costs, but then you're not making any more profit than a regular disc. So why bother? Not saying it wouldn't sweet to see (especially for me!) but im not seeing it.

I don't think R&D costs will significantly increase until after the next major price category is created. I think with regular (as opposed to over-) molds, the expensive component will be the discovery of a better polymer. Dunipace believes that the biggest thing missing from the overall current disc lineup is truly accurate high speed drivers...so maybe (and obviously I'm speculating heavily here) a yet-to-be-discovered polymer will react in such a way that solves that problem...or maybe lasts longer AND provides better grip, etc.

I would not be surprised to see changes in the fundamental changes in the way discs are manufactured eventually, and that will require significant investment, but I think there's still room to grow with the current injection molding processes.

 

[Lazerface]

I've always wondered if the price points for discs will ever vary like other sporting equipment. Of course there is variance across the product line from the same manufacturer depending on plastic, but relative price points are pretty flat across the market.

We don't really have a "low cost leader" (Southwest Airlines) in the market. Will there be a day when Innova costs $50 and Company B costs $20?

The thing about other sporting equipment, like golf, is that the expensive or "pro" level equipment is often the wrong equipment for the regular non professional consumer. I don't see this being the case with disc golf. I cannot imagine Innova producing a $50 disc that is considerably better than a $20 disc for a pro/advanced player, but wouldn't really benefit the average player. Plastic types and stability aside, I think the price point in the disc market will naturally flatten out across all manufacturers regardless of development. I may be failing to think outside the box here and maybe there is a way to make a round thing fly way better and the technology can be patented and no other manufacturer could copy it.

 

[jakebake91]

I think you're spot on in your speculation here. I don't know about the timeframe because I think the first manufacturer will meet heavier resistance, and then the 2nd company to do it will be successful, but no doubt it will happen.



I don't think R&D costs will significantly increase until after the next major price category is created. I think with regular (as opposed to over-) molds, the expensive component will be the discovery of a better polymer. Dunipace believes that the biggest thing missing from the overall current disc lineup is truly accurate high speed drivers...so maybe (and obviously I'm speculating heavily here) a yet-to-be-discovered polymer will react in such a way that solves that problem...or maybe lasts longer AND provides better grip, etc.

I would not be surprised to see changes in the fundamental changes in the way discs are manufactured eventually, and that will require significant investment, but I think there's still room to grow with the current injection molding processes.

As someone who works in injection molding, i can see room for improvement with better polymers, consistency, and things like that. But what is being discussed above isnt an "improvement" its a radical change. The multiple plastic concept is a tooling nightmare.

 

[brutalbrutus]

Didn't Prodigy do some experimenting with more expensive plastics when they first started? I don't think they were ever really sold to the public but I can remember a friend of mine saying something about it...

 

[Zanguini]

I don't think R&D costs will significantly increase until after the next major price category is created. I think with regular (as opposed to over-) molds, the expensive component will be the discovery of a better polymer. Dunipace believes that the biggest thing missing from the overall current disc lineup is truly accurate high speed drivers...so maybe (and obviously I'm speculating heavily here) a yet-to-be-discovered polymer will react in such a way that solves that problem...or maybe lasts longer AND provides better grip, etc.

I would not be surprised to see changes in the fundamental changes in the way discs are manufactured eventually, and that will require significant investment, but I think there's still room to grow with the current injection molding processes.

Beware of Triple molded discs, Regular disc w/overmold with the underside with grip plastic.