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Forehand/Sidearm Question

saintash72

Newbie
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Messages
1
I throw my drives forehand, and I have a decent s-curve throw for distance (about 350-375 ft). I keep hearing about the hyzer-flip shot. I've only seen it thrown once, backhand. Can this shot be thrown forehand? Any tips? Also, what are some good discs for the shot.
 
if your talking about an anhyzer shot, you simply tip the far end of the disc up and bring your arm across your body fairly level if you want to control it. it takes time control it. i learned in a few weeks but that's because i was playing 2 rounds a day during june/july. so expect maybe a month or 2 or possibly a year if your dont get much chance to practice it.
 
saintash72- the disc you choose for a forehand shot is crucial as it is very easy to generate spin on forehands most people choose a very overstable disc (usually referred to as ultra long range drivers) to avoid "flipping" the disc over to the left, assuming you are RH throwing FH.

any disc you choose that is less stable than a big driver (orc, teebird,viper, whippet etc) will be much easier to turn left for you but keep in mind that there is a big difference between turning and flipping.

almost anyone can flip a disc, sometimes intentionally and sometimes by over gripping and late release. however, it takes a lot of practice to make a disc actually turn. just from experience, as
you try to learn to turn, you will end up throwing a lot of unintentional forehand rollers. oh well,
a forehand roller can be a shot that saves you in the future so you might as well learn that too, and,
the forehand, forehand roller and ultimately the tomohawk (pancake, salad bowl, hammer and a thousand other names referring to an overhand shot) are all very similar throws with only small changes in angle of release and relation between height of wrist and elbow.

hope that's not too confusing.
 
if your talking about the double S curve like starts out hyzer goes into an anhyzer then flips back into the regular flight path of a forehand i do it and that takes alot of snap and arm speed and alos for most big throwers like myself a heavier disc. i usually use the orc or starfire for thi shot and i get max distance this way! its a real good shot to learn itll increase your distance up to 50 or 60 feet! if you need any tips on how send me a message and ill be glad to help you out!
 
I use a Star Wraith as my main forehand driver. This is easily my favorite disk in my bag right now.
 
I've tried to find a clear definition for a "hyzer flip", and so far I've had no luck. I think it refers to all shots that are thrown with either hyzer or anhyzer but with enough spin or height for it to fly in an s-curve or a variation of one, usually resulting in more D. For instance, I throw a firebird for my sidearm, if I release it with a step anny aiming 25 feet or more, up and right of my target with alot of flick , it turns over for most of its flight, gliding left, ending with a short diving right hand fade. Now, say I were to throw a teebird with the same strenth, but I want it to go straighter . I would throw it with a severe hyzer angle, but the amount a spin I put on it would cause it to "flip" up level with the ground, and fly straight. I think the latter technique is the one you described, and I believe this is the one that results in more distance because it flies in a straighter line. This also could be more difficult with a sidearm because it is so easy to put to much spin in to your throw, and release with the wing up. My best advice is to learn throw backhand, because is it a more useful throw once mastered. When I began I also threw mostly sidearm, and then easily converted to backhand after learning what it was about the throw that gave me so much distance. This is where you have a leg up on BH players, because I believe that it is easier for a FA player to convert to BH then the other way around. Once this is done you'll have both shots in your bag.
 
Clarity

First off, I think it's VERY important to clarify some physics of disc flight because much of what people have said above is incorrect, misleading, or vague.

Stability is generated by the spin a disc is thrown with, not speed. That is to say, the direction a disc spins is the direction it will naturally fade. This is why RHBH shots fade left and RHFH shots fade right.

The Innova rating system applies a number to a disc's "speed" - that number is *NOT* the maximum speed the disc can fly - it is the speed at which the disc will fly straight. Exceeding that speed will likely cause the disc to "flip" or "turn-over" To help illustrate this, consider throwing your putter as hard as you can - no matter how much spin you put on the disc, it should turn over quickly - that's because it's easy to throw the disc faster than the speed at which it will fly stable.

Additionally, when considering the physics of any disc, one need account for the "high speed turn" and "low speed turn" of a disc. Those two characteristics refer to the performance of the disc against the wind. The shape of the disc - the rim and flight plate - determines how a disc will behave. Negative numbers in either category mean less stable, while positives mean more stable. That is, when throwing a straight or hyzer shot, less spin is needed when throwing an overstable driver and vice-versa with anhyzer or understable drivers.

Okay, now that I've clarified the physics of disc flight I can address the initial question. A hyzer flip any shot that starts on a hyzer line but turns into an anhyzer sometime after it was released from the hand. This shot is very different from a shot that starts off with anhyzer and naturally works it's way back to hyzer relying on the stability of the disc. Such a throw will generate an "S" shape, but the hyzer flip can actually make a double "S" line.

More specifics on the physics of a hyzer flip: The point at which the disc "flips" or "turns over" is when the speed the disc is traveling forward is becomes greater than the speed at which the disc is spinning. Therefore, hyzer flip shots are much easier to throw with understable discs. A disc throw at or slightly above it's maximum stable speed with a tremendous amount of spin will continue to go straight for a long way before flipping. I call that shot a "late-flip" as the disc will not turn over into an anhyzer until it has already traveled 200 or more feet. Such a shot may finish anhyzer or may fade back to hyzer, making a double "S" line as mentioned above. Such shots tend to maximize distance, with only rollers going farther.

Since I'm on the subject, it seems to make sense to talk about anhyzer flip shots as well. Using the same principles outlined above, it is possible to throw a shot that starts off with anhyzer and finishes with even more anhyzer but not falling to the ground or rolling. Depending on the fairway, such a shot usually need anywhere from 30-50' of initial height. If, when the disc reaches the apex of its flight, it's forward speed exceeds the speed of the spin, it will go from a forced flip to a finessed flip and will likely glide out on the anhyzer line.

Finally, RHBH and RHFH players are all different - neither styles have any natural advantage when switching to the opposite style. The ease of switching styles is entirely in the player. That said, a solid understanding of the physics of disc flight will help any player throw in any style. All of the principles I've outline above directly apply to backhand players as well. Choosing which shot to take with which disc is what will make or break a drive. It is not the disc's fault if the drive goes wrong - it's the player that made the mistake of misjudging a disc or misusing form.
 
a hyzer flip is when you hold a disc with hyzer...when thrown with enough speed/spin it will stay hyzer for 100-150 feet then flip up and s crve for another 300ft.....it takes a lot of time to learn thiis...it can be done backhand and forehand...i use a wraith for forehand and a sidewinder for backhand
 
First off, I think it's VERY important to clarify some physics of disc flight because much of what people have said above is incorrect, misleading, or vague.

Stability is generated by the spin a disc is thrown with, not speed. That is to say, the direction a disc spins is the direction it will naturally fade. This is why RHBH shots fade left and RHFH shots fade right.

The Innova rating system applies a number to a disc's "speed" - that number is *NOT* the maximum speed the disc can fly - it is the speed at which the disc will fly straight. Exceeding that speed will likely cause the disc to "flip" or "turn-over" To help illustrate this, consider throwing your putter as hard as you can - no matter how much spin you put on the disc, it should turn over quickly - that's because it's easy to throw the disc faster than the speed at which it will fly stable.

Additionally, when considering the physics of any disc, one need account for the "high speed turn" and "low speed turn" of a disc. Those two characteristics refer to the performance of the disc against the wind. The shape of the disc - the rim and flight plate - determines how a disc will behave. Negative numbers in either category mean less stable, while positives mean more stable. That is, when throwing a straight or hyzer shot, less spin is needed when throwing an overstable driver and vice-versa with anhyzer or understable drivers.

Okay, now that I've clarified the physics of disc flight I can address the initial question. A hyzer flip any shot that starts on a hyzer line but turns into an anhyzer sometime after it was released from the hand. This shot is very different from a shot that starts off with anhyzer and naturally works it's way back to hyzer relying on the stability of the disc. Such a throw will generate an "S" shape, but the hyzer flip can actually make a double "S" line.

More specifics on the physics of a hyzer flip: The point at which the disc "flips" or "turns over" is when the speed the disc is traveling forward is becomes greater than the speed at which the disc is spinning. Therefore, hyzer flip shots are much easier to throw with understable discs. A disc throw at or slightly above it's maximum stable speed with a tremendous amount of spin will continue to go straight for a long way before flipping. I call that shot a "late-flip" as the disc will not turn over into an anhyzer until it has already traveled 200 or more feet. Such a shot may finish anhyzer or may fade back to hyzer, making a double "S" line as mentioned above. Such shots tend to maximize distance, with only rollers going farther.

Since I'm on the subject, it seems to make sense to talk about anhyzer flip shots as well. Using the same principles outlined above, it is possible to throw a shot that starts off with anhyzer and finishes with even more anhyzer but not falling to the ground or rolling. Depending on the fairway, such a shot usually need anywhere from 30-50' of initial height. If, when the disc reaches the apex of its flight, it's forward speed exceeds the speed of the spin, it will go from a forced flip to a finessed flip and will likely glide out on the anhyzer line.

Finally, RHBH and RHFH players are all different - neither styles have any natural advantage when switching to the opposite style. The ease of switching styles is entirely in the player. That said, a solid understanding of the physics of disc flight will help any player throw in any style. All of the principles I've outline above directly apply to backhand players as well. Choosing which shot to take with which disc is what will make or break a drive. It is not the disc's fault if the drive goes wrong - it's the player that made the mistake of misjudging a disc or misusing form.

Your description of speed is off. By that definition, if you threw a firebird and a vulcan at the same speed, the firebird would be more likely to turn over which is 100% false. You mentioned stability, but didn't explain it's relationship to speed. "Speed" is much more arbitrary than disc makers make it seem, and is better defined as how hard/fast/well you have to throw the disc to get it to an ideal flight path according to the disc manufacturer. Innova claims speed is how well a disc "cuts the air", but to me, that seems to belong in the category of glide. A low glide disc will "cut the air" better than a high glide disc which will essentially ride it.
 
and a hyzer flip is simply throwing an understable disc with hyzer so that it flattens out instead of pulling right. With enough power, it can turn as well, but it's not required to be considered a hyzer flip. Basically, that shot is how pros/better players than me can throw a disc 300+ feet in an almost straight line.
 
I find it really funny that someone revived a many year dead thread just to post a wall of text with several inaccuracies.
 

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