Is it unethical for a disc golf store owner

[SteezeOG]

The "only difference" you state above is a very big difference in how one could classify their operations. Being a wholesaler of discs is a lot different once you start being a manufacturer and also become the ONLY real wholesaler for the Trilogy brands. Like I said I like DD and the way they do business as a manufacturer but there is no question a conflict of interest can be drawn when you operate a true retail disc golf operation and also are a manufacturer. Prices also went up for wholesale pricing when DD took control of distribution of the Trilogy brands in the US. I'm also sure DD is making more money on the wholesale operations because as I stated earlier all other retailers now need to order through them for Trilogy plastic. What this means is retailers who had been going direct through Latitude are now filling the pockets of their direct competitor (DD) by being forced to order wholesale through them. It might only be .25 cents on a disc DD is making but the point is DD is still making money off it's competitors. That's a conflict of interest, retail stores aside, DD still runs a huge retail ecommerce website that competes against other retailers.

and like I said you're faulting DD for growing their business and blaming them. If you don't like the change you should express your concern to Lat64. That was their choice. You're assuming that .25 cents per disc is profit. That is simply an assumption. What about the cost of business? Overhead? That warehouse isn't cheap, the staff required to run it needs paid, light and utility bills need paid, etc. It may actually be costing Lat64 more right now to use this distribution but it's worth it to them because now they can downsize their sales department and outsource it to DD. They can focus on other aspects of their business. So logistically it might have been a good move for them and it's simply costing more to distribute this new way so the cost is obviously not absorbed by the companies right? Just like all business the cost is increased to the retailers and then they have to mark it up to their customers.

DD is still very much a retailer. They still have to buy wholesale from Innova, prodigy, legacy, gateway, and discraft. They don't have some chokehold or monopoly on the disc market. They've simply been hired to distribute for one large manufacturer. What would you have them do? Shut down their 3 retail stores that came first? How do you actually propose they resolve this so called conflict? Do less business? Stop being the distributor for Lat64? I don't get what you're asking for.

 

[WhiteyBear]

Those that oppose this, obviously don't seem to be any sort of artist in their own right.

If you are a photgrapher, you would charge more for your best work
If you are a wood worker, you would charge more for your best work
If you were a blass blower, you would charge more for your best work
If you were a chef, you would charge more for your best work
If you were basic DG person, you would charge more for your best discs

Lots of ridiculous opinions on here, who apparently have never owned their own business, nor attempted to craft something of value with their business.

 

[Hampstead]

"Best" can be relative. Does that mean a shop should charge extra for every natural beauty in stock? Some people covet FAF Firebirds while others prefer the domier ones. Should shops ask their customers which they prefer and charge extra accordingly? To be clear, I have no problem with a business owner doing what they need to in order to stay in business and I have no problem charging what the market will bear, but some aspects of this discussion have ventured off into the realm of the absurd.

 

[CoolWinnebago]

This thread is ridiculous.

Im also pretty sure that some of you have no idea what "conflict of interest" means.

DD acting as the middle man for trilogy is in no way a conflict of interest. Its good business on their part.

 

[World Eater]

Those that oppose this, obviously don't seem to be any sort of artist in their own right.

If you are a photgrapher, you would charge more for your best work
If you are a wood worker, you would charge more for your best work
If you were a blass blower, you would charge more for your best work
If you were a chef, you would charge more for your best work
If you were basic DG person, you would charge more for your best discs

Lots of ridiculous opinions on here, who apparently have never owned their own business, nor attempted to craft something of value with their business.

Oh I'll show you ridiculous...

I may be just a basic disc golf person but I'm not sure its really any more reasonable in other professions.

Photographer : "OK, here's your wedding pictures. $1500 please."
Basic wedding person : "WTF?? you said $1000!"
Photographer : "Ya, but you looked exceptionally good in that wedding dress.."

Wood worker : "Hey my paycheck is wrong. I should have made $25/hour instead of $15 on Thursday. The wood I was working with had some incredible burl!"

Blass blower : "My blass is worth more than retail this time!"
Basic blass person : "lolwut?"

Basic dining person : "Uh, this bill is not right. The steak should have been $23 not $47."
Waiter : "The Chef says that meat was awesome, and he cooked that **** to perfection. The guy at the table next to you would totally buy that steak for $47."

0.O

Also DD improving payouts is nice, but they could do a lot of things that dont undermine other retailers to add to the pot. I'd much rather they came out with cool special runs ala Innova to add to payouts than hedge around a trilogy retail monopoly personally. Even if it isnt bad, as you say, it looks bad imo.

Also, if its not clear (because I'm an ass sometimes) I appreciate the info you're sharing and your opinions Steeze.

re : team trilogy... I have to say, the team trilogy blurbs where someone has to tout a disc that made a difference in their game sounds soooo forced it physically hurts me every time I hear a trilogy am win something...

 

[ru4por]

Oh I'll show you ridiculous...

I may be just a basic disc golf person but I'm not sure its really any more reasonable in other professions.

Photographer : "OK, here's your wedding pictures. $1500 please."
Basic wedding person : "WTF?? you said $1000!"
Photographer : "Ya, but you looked exceptionally good in that wedding dress.."

Wood worker : "Hey my paycheck is wrong. I should have made $25/hour instead of $15 on Thursday. The wood I was working with had some incredible burl!"

Blass blower : "My blass is worth more than retail this time!"
Basic blass person : "lolwut?"

Basic dining person : "Uh, this bill is not right. The steak should have been $23 not $47."
Waiter : "The Chef says that meat was awesome, and he cooked that **** to perfection. The guy at the table next to you would totally buy that steak for $47."

0.O

Also DD improving payouts is nice, but they could do a lot of things that dont undermine other retailers to add to the pot. I'd much rather they came out with cool special runs ala Innova to add to payouts than hedge around a trilogy retail monopoly personally. Even if it isnt bad, as you say, it looks bad imo.

Also, if its not clear (because I'm an ass sometimes) I appreciate the info you're sharing and your opinions Steeze.

re : team trilogy... I have to say, the team trilogy blurbs where someone has to tout a disc that made a difference in their game sounds soooo forced it physically hurts me every time I hear a trilogy am win something...

This is silly. The examples you have given all have contracts of some sort associated with them. The discussion was posting certain discs at a price point higher than others and selling them at the higher price point.

Perhaps you could argue selling a Kobe beef filet, for more money than the regular filet is unethical, but you would then just be wrong.

 

[mashnut]

Oh I'll show you ridiculous...

I may be just a basic disc golf person but I'm not sure its really any more reasonable in other professions.

Photographer : "OK, here's your wedding pictures. $1500 please."
Basic wedding person : "WTF?? you said $1000!"
Photographer : "Ya, but you looked exceptionally good in that wedding dress.."

Wood worker : "Hey my paycheck is wrong. I should have made $25/hour instead of $15 on Thursday. The wood I was working with had some incredible burl!"

Blass blower : "My blass is worth more than retail this time!"
Basic blass person : "lolwut?"

Basic dining person : "Uh, this bill is not right. The steak should have been $23 not $47."
Waiter : "The Chef says that meat was awesome, and he cooked that **** to perfection. The guy at the table next to you would totally buy that steak for $47."

0.O

Maybe I missed something, but are you claiming that these disc sales are advertising one price then charging another after someone orders? That's what all of your examples are analagous to. To use your last example it's more like having a special at the restaurant that's more expensive than the normal version of the dish because the chef got some extra special ingredients. Should he be forced to sell that special to you at the same price as other menu items because it's unfair for him to use those ingredients in a special entree?

 

[Hampstead]

The local shop here charges $15.99 for Z/Champion and $17.99 for Star/Esp. Those prices are posted in the store. It doesn't say - prices subject to change if we think a disc is pretty. You go to the shop expecting to pay $15.99 and tax for a Champ Firebird. To their credit, they don't charge extra in shop for pearly or swirly discs. If they do that via Ebay or some auction site, more power to them. So in that regard, I think World Eater's post has some merit.

 

[AndyJB]

Thread drift ahead:

I agree it sounds forced on the Team Trilogy thing...to the trained ear. For a more casual player or a Trilogy fan, it's simply a shout out or suggestion. It's more like free advertising. Also, it's not like it's a lie. They usually do a great job of explaining WHY that disc mad a difference for them.

Now back to your regularly scheduled argument.

 

[Jay Dub]

Thread drift ahead:

I agree it sounds forced on the Team Trilogy thing...to the trained ear. For a more casual player or a Trilogy fan, it's simply a shout out or suggestion. It's more like free advertising. Also, it's not like it's a lie. They usually do a great job of explaining WHY that disc mad a difference for them.

Now back to your regularly scheduled argument.

That's because Team Trilogy members wrongly claim it's the arrow not the archer.



....yes they do!

Now back to your regularly scheduled argument

 

[CoolWinnebago]

For some reason, on this forum at least, it seems that the people who most want to "grow the sport" are the sames ones that want to keep anyone from making money from it. These ideas go against each other in my mind.

Maybe its just me, I mean, I really dont give a crap about the growth of disc golf.

 

[Streets]

For some reason, on this forum at least, it seems that the people who most want to "grow the sport" are the sames ones that want to keep anyone from making money from it. These ideas go against each other in my mind.

Maybe its just me, I mean, I really dont give a crap about the growth of disc golf.

Disc golfers basically want the best, well made products for cheap and any company who is actually doing well and making it is pure evil.

Economics of Disc Golf 101 :|

 

[World Eater]

Yes, my examples were hyperbolic, but I did preface the post with "I'll show you ridiculous..."

But I get that it is not enough of a disclaimer on the internets.

All of my examples are of an expected and established price changing because the seller arbitrarily decides that the value is actually higher in some particular instance using examples from the professions since it was suggested that DG is unique. I promise the similarities to DG disc pricing end there.

 

[mashnut]

Yes, my examples were hyperbolic, but I did preface the post with "I'll show you ridiculous..."

But I get that it is not enough of a disclaimer on the internets.

All of my examples are of an expected and established price changing because the seller arbitrarily decides that the value is actually higher in some particular instance using examples from the professions since it was suggested that DG is unique. I promise the similarities to DG disc pricing end there.

Sure, but you seem to be confused about when those price changes happen. All of your examples involve surprising the consumer after the purchase process has already begun. The issue as I understand it that this thread is addressing is an advertised price that some think is too high, there is no bait and switch.

 

[World Eater]

You do seem to be confused about what Im saying...

In normal circumstances, which I grant you is contracted prices in these instances, expectations we have for those other professions are not particularly different than disc golf.

That was my point.

Personally I dont buy a lot of dinners on auction, hence my example was not of a Chef who left his restaurant with a particularly nice dish and tried to ebay it.

I know you dont like my example because it doesnt provide identical parameters and also because it doesnt make the same point you are expressing, but I think it does a fair job of illustrating that arbitrary is arbitrary and there will be some who are fine with it, and a lot of us will think you're silly for buying your dinner on ebay.

Or perhaps my point is meaningless to you, which I'm also OK with. But I assure you I am not confused about anything.

 

[mashnut]

If your point really is that you think it's silly for people to agree to pay more for things that don't appear to you to have more value, then I agree. I don't, however, think that makes a store owner unethical for finding people who do think there's extra value in certain discs and selling them at a price that those people are willing to pay. Since I don't think they have any extra value, I'm not losing anything by not having access to them at higher prices. The shop owner gets a little extra money, and the buyer gets something that's special to them that they paid a little extra for (at a price that was agreed to before the purchase by that buyer). I'm really having a hard time seeing how anyone not involved in the transaction has an axe to grind.

You do seem to be confused about what Im saying...

In normal circumstances, which I grant you is contracted prices in these instances, expectations we have for those other professions are not particularly different than disc golf.

That was my point.

Personally I dont buy a lot of dinners on auction, hence my example was not of a Chef who left his restaurant with a particularly nice dish and tried to ebay it.

I know you dont like my example because it doesnt provide identical parameters and also because it doesnt make the same point you are expressing, but I think it does a fair job of illustrating that arbitrary is arbitrary and there will be some who are fine with it, and a lot of us will think you're silly for buying your dinner on ebay.

Or perhaps my point is meaningless to you, which I'm also OK with. But I assure you I am not confused about anything.

 

[Streets]

I know you dont like my example because it doesnt provide identical parameters and also because it doesnt make the same point you are expressing, but I think it does a fair job of illustrating that arbitrary is arbitrary and there will be some who are fine with it, and a lot of us will think you're silly for buying your dinner on ebay.

If you need this much verbiage to explain why you used a specific example, then it's not a very good or germane example.

 

[Flip Hyzerman]

I don't care if they do - I just want to know who does, so I can stay away from them as a customer. There are alot of greedy skeezers in the DG scene; I always laugh when someone comes on here saying something about "saving up for my kid!" ... it's sad really.

to sell the coolest/rare discs they receive from in their huge orders, on auction sites such as ebay, or the fb dollar disc auction page?

What's everyone's thoughts on this greed fueled activity?

Problem? Just the store owner making a quick extra stack of cash? Business as usual?

What's your stance on the issue?

 

[hipster]

^^ nailed it. Can't believe this thread is still hanging since the owner is not being unethical or shady in the least by selling disc for more than the standard price.

 

[hipster]

Mashnut nailed it. Can't believe this thread is still hanging since the owner is not being unethical or shady in the least by selling disc for more than the standard price.[/QUOTE]