lyleoross
* Ace Member *
It's also a testament to bringing in an expert designer who will look for those avenues.
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Jonesboro Open - April 13-16 DGPT Pro / AM
- Thread starter LetsPlayGolf
- Start date
It's also a testament to bringing in an expert designer who will look for those avenues.
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
Yes, but I may not understand your intent.
If I wasn't clear, the designer didn't see the route taken by top pros during his design process. A more advanced course designer, say Chuck Kennedy might have.
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
Unless you have Simon in your pocket during design, you can miss crazy stuff, especially when design phase may not be done when foliage is minimal. And sometimes foliage changes from the time of design to time of event such as trees or limbs coming down that open up previously unavailable routes. Best approach which is a well worn path in ball golf is to test layouts well in advance of big time events to flush out possible problems like this and slow play holes.
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
I've got a Simon in my pocket... Not sure he'd fit. 
Like Chuck said, even the most experienced designers can miss things for a variety of reasons they may have no control over. But really, the truth is that no course design is ever truly complete and final. Things evolve (trees/bushes/branches grow and fall, land erodes, players improve, disc tech improves, etc) necessitating that designs need to evolve and change to keep up.
From what I understand, this tournament was the first time the course hosted players of this caliber. The first time that players capable of successfully exploiting unconventional or unexpected or undesired routes had a chance to do so. Until this event, that route that Simon and others took may have never even been noticed.
But the mark of a good designer isn't that they can foresee those types of things, it's that they address them once they're discovered. That's what I meant in suggesting that the hole can be tweaked or adjusted to take that undesirable route away without needing to keep the mando that was implemented mid-tournament. It's also the luxury that being on privately owned land provides. In a park, the folks involved with maintaining the course might have their hands tied in how they can deal with it (and the mando is the only way to go). On private land, they can move the tee or plant a tree or do any number of things to "fix" the hole and not need to keep the mando.
From what I understand, this tournament was the first time the course hosted players of this caliber. The first time that players capable of successfully exploiting unconventional or unexpected or undesired routes had a chance to do so. Until this event, that route that Simon and others took may have never even been noticed.
But the mark of a good designer isn't that they can foresee those types of things, it's that they address them once they're discovered. That's what I meant in suggesting that the hole can be tweaked or adjusted to take that undesirable route away without needing to keep the mando that was implemented mid-tournament. It's also the luxury that being on privately owned land provides. In a park, the folks involved with maintaining the course might have their hands tied in how they can deal with it (and the mando is the only way to go). On private land, they can move the tee or plant a tree or do any number of things to "fix" the hole and not need to keep the mando.
dbaledge
Par Member
what hole was the added mando on?
brutalbrutus
* Ace Member *
17. If you look at the first 2 rounds vids, he throws basically sideways of the tee.
onemilemore
* Ace Member *
This is something I would like to see the Pro Tour work on a bit more -- not just for layout purposes, but also for cell quality purposes. There haven't been any issues this year, but I remember thinking last year that maybe some of the streaming trouble with Silver Cup could have been avoided with some advanced scouting of the area. (And I know Vibram had streaming problems, but that was never not going to be on the Pro Tour. Just need some more $ for a cell tower there.)
SD86
Banned
The mando was for safety, as Simon was throwing into and over an adjacent hole's fairway. So I understood them adding it.
IMHO the bigger issue was the OB line extended on 18 that wasn't clearly marked.
A designer's dream come true, a pocket Simon!
Attachments
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
Do I want to ask how you got a Simon action figure? I am impressed though.
I got this really big cracker jack box from Germany and this was the prize inside.
JUST KIDDING!
He had it made and posted the pic on Instagram:
https://instagram.com/p/BSMTz37AOue/
Scott Davis
Newbie
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2015
- Messages
- 31
Or the foot fault not called on Ricky by players but called by Terry (camera man) or the obvious foot fault by Ricky stepping on his disc which he used as a marker,but there again,players were 200-300 ft Away from each other on many holes while in the fairway,most ppl would say yeah but thats being an Ass , but after watching The Champ cAll dude on stepping on his marker on a 1250 ft hole ,I wAs like owell it's in the rules,,as far as Ricky shanked that drive on 18,he should've been ob
LetsPlayGolf
Par Member
Hey guys-
This has been fun. Keep the feedback coming. To address some of the things mentioned:
1) The grass. This course does in fact sit on an old cattle farm that is planted with hay grass. 50 acres of hay grass. We had a very wet and warm spring and the grass started growing a little earlier than it usually does this time of year. We had so much rain that we were scared to get a tractor on the course as it might have rutted up the place then you would have had poor footing everywhere! We got lucky as it stopped raining a few days before the tournament. We were literally mowing on Wednesday before the tourney with a hay cutter and a zero turn. Was the grass taller than we wanted? Yes, but there were several reasons as to why. We used the zero turn every morning of the tournament to widen the fairways, but again 50 acres with a zero turn takes some time.
2) Mando enforced for rounds 3 & 4. It was hole 11, not 17. What you cannot see very well in the videos is that the Tee sits down in a hole we cut out under one of the massive trees. We knew of the 'cheater' route and we knew it could come into play from the original Tee position. We moved it down in the hole to try and discourage the route as much as we could. We were aware, we just thought we took care of it. Once some players saw it, very few actually played it. But still one playing it that way was one too many as you were throwing almost directly at #9's basket and into 9's fairway. Hence, the mando for rounds 3 & 4. Next year we will take care of it without the mando.
3) #18 OB marked. We honestly did not expect anyone to be where Ricky landed on 18. In fact, you can see in the video we parked the tractor, flatbed trailers, mowers and trucks in that same spot. We thought all of the heavy equipment was in an area that no one would come close to. Will it be marked next year? Yes. Should it come in to play? No, haha. But we will mark it anyway.
4) The wind/Hole 16: Holy cow, I have lived here for ten years and the first two days of this tournament were extremely abnormal for this time of year. Usually in the spring we have a steady 12-18 mph wind every day. Thursday and Friday it was dead calm and the guys tore the place up. Usually in four day events scores go down each day. This event scores were higher Saturday and Sunday because the wind was up to 10-12 mph. I played the course this past weekend in 20 mph wind which is much more common than calm winds. Look at hole 16: 10 Eagles on Thursday and Friday. But then 3 on Saturday and 2 on Sunday. That is more of what we expected. The scoring average on Sunday was 63.12, less than one stroke below par 64 with a tournament that averaged 1,000 rated players.
5) All in all every player that talked to us before, during and after the event all loved the layout. We can and we will tweak a few things for the future but I believe The Championship Course at Disc Side of Heaven held its own. Did we make mistakes? Absolutely, but we will learn and improve on them for next time.
Thanks-
Brad
This has been fun. Keep the feedback coming. To address some of the things mentioned:
1) The grass. This course does in fact sit on an old cattle farm that is planted with hay grass. 50 acres of hay grass. We had a very wet and warm spring and the grass started growing a little earlier than it usually does this time of year. We had so much rain that we were scared to get a tractor on the course as it might have rutted up the place then you would have had poor footing everywhere! We got lucky as it stopped raining a few days before the tournament. We were literally mowing on Wednesday before the tourney with a hay cutter and a zero turn. Was the grass taller than we wanted? Yes, but there were several reasons as to why. We used the zero turn every morning of the tournament to widen the fairways, but again 50 acres with a zero turn takes some time.
2) Mando enforced for rounds 3 & 4. It was hole 11, not 17. What you cannot see very well in the videos is that the Tee sits down in a hole we cut out under one of the massive trees. We knew of the 'cheater' route and we knew it could come into play from the original Tee position. We moved it down in the hole to try and discourage the route as much as we could. We were aware, we just thought we took care of it. Once some players saw it, very few actually played it. But still one playing it that way was one too many as you were throwing almost directly at #9's basket and into 9's fairway. Hence, the mando for rounds 3 & 4. Next year we will take care of it without the mando.
3) #18 OB marked. We honestly did not expect anyone to be where Ricky landed on 18. In fact, you can see in the video we parked the tractor, flatbed trailers, mowers and trucks in that same spot. We thought all of the heavy equipment was in an area that no one would come close to. Will it be marked next year? Yes. Should it come in to play? No, haha. But we will mark it anyway.
4) The wind/Hole 16: Holy cow, I have lived here for ten years and the first two days of this tournament were extremely abnormal for this time of year. Usually in the spring we have a steady 12-18 mph wind every day. Thursday and Friday it was dead calm and the guys tore the place up. Usually in four day events scores go down each day. This event scores were higher Saturday and Sunday because the wind was up to 10-12 mph. I played the course this past weekend in 20 mph wind which is much more common than calm winds. Look at hole 16: 10 Eagles on Thursday and Friday. But then 3 on Saturday and 2 on Sunday. That is more of what we expected. The scoring average on Sunday was 63.12, less than one stroke below par 64 with a tournament that averaged 1,000 rated players.
5) All in all every player that talked to us before, during and after the event all loved the layout. We can and we will tweak a few things for the future but I believe The Championship Course at Disc Side of Heaven held its own. Did we make mistakes? Absolutely, but we will learn and improve on them for next time.
Thanks-
Brad
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