thats a really nice way of saying that youre whipped and afraid of conflict.
Fwiw i appreciate the fact that since you know you cant play by the rules, you avoid playing when the rules matter. For that i applaud you
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Nikko Calls Foot Fault on Gurthie ... "Don't you shake his hand, bro.."
- Thread starter Earic02
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thats a really nice way of saying that youre whipped and afraid of conflict.
Fwiw i appreciate the fact that since you know you cant play by the rules, you avoid playing when the rules matter. For that i applaud you
Fair enough - I've been bitching, here's some ideas:
It's a chicken/egg scenario unfortunately. Some rules must change in order to be more clearly enforceable (and actually kudos to the 2013 rule changes, I think they're a good step in the direction for the most part). Also, yes I think Marshalls need to be either with a card for a round or assigned to a hole (like spotters). At least the presence of knowledgeable officials will make everyone play it straight (kinda like how a line of cars on the interstate will slow down when a cop is nearby, even if the cop doesn't pull anyone over).
My theory is if we properly train a group of people - yes they'd be volunteers to start but it would grow with the sport - and empower them to make calls or consult with the group calls then we'd have a more consistent enforcing of the rules. Plus, volunteers would love to do this...just buy them lunch and/or give them some tourney gear.
Just as an aside - remember the big meltdown DGCR had about Tom Schot having volunteers pay to work worlds 2011? It worked and the interwebz was wrong. I still see people proudly wearing their volunteer gear. A situation like that could be worked out here with similarly creative minds.
Interesting idea, I'd love to see someone try that and see how it goes. My first thought is that the volunteers you'd get would be lower level players who want to see the pros play. That's fine for spotters, but even with training most of those players won't have the experience of implementing the rules in real time. I very much doubt that a card of open or advanced players would take very well to being officiated by (from their perspective) some schmo who's been "trained" to officiate for them.
DatRedDude
Eagle Member
Pause
redwrath
Bogey Member
There are always going to be inconsistencies between groups of people in terms of interpretation and apathy levels. Motivations to be on the course are going to vary as well.
I wish you the best.
redwrath
Bogey Member
I can't play by the rules AND am whipped? I take it, by your accusations that you have a penchant for drama and will leave it at that.
Brodysseus
* Ace Member *
For the record redwrath I share your opinions about not sweating the little stuff and just worrying about my own game. Likewise, I am becoming adverse to competitive play because of the attitude of the common tournament player. And I am sure I would enjoy playing a round with you much more than I would playing with most of the other forum members.
Back to the topic though, this is one of the reasons Why I believe each card/hole needs an official on hand to enforce the rules. But Nikko was in the right making that call.
When you pick and choose what to call and when, you need to not play competetively. Because that is cheating. Its pretty simple. Whether youre not calling it because you think its an advantage to you, or because you wanna be everyones friend, is irrelevant.
Im all for casual rounds and fun and a lax atmosphere. But an event where there are rules, where everyone is expected to play by those rules, you not helping enforce them is, in itself, an infraction.
Whenever a rule discussion happens around here some people take it as meaning they have to follow someone else rules when they play their casual rounds. I have never seen anyone on here expect that from anyone. In fact they all say when you play casual play by the rules you want to.
But if you are going to be playing competition then there is no question you should play by the competitor's rules, in this case the PDGA rules. And follow them to a tee. Nothing is minor. The line has to be drawn somewhere and the rules draw those lines.
But if you are going to be playing competition then there is no question you should play by the competitor's rules, in this case the PDGA rules. And follow them to a tee. Nothing is minor. The line has to be drawn somewhere and the rules draw those lines.
NOStheBOSS
Double Eagle Member
I would love to see Pwingles play a tournament round , from the way he talks he must be Jesus himself calling 4 foot faults a hole
General Scales
Double Eagle Member
I play my casual rounds just as that, casual. I'm not playing casual rounds trying to hand out infractions and be a babysitter for people that cannot follow the basic rules we have. I could care less if that person steps off their lie a thousand times during a casual round because the results are inconsequential.
If their is money on it, however, I would be doing not only myself, but everyone else that is playing by the rules, a disservice by not enforcing them. Seriously, I am not there to make friends during a tournament round. I am there to beat the course, beat my own expectations and play fairly. Friend making is for before and after rounds. Anyone who has played with me can attest to the fact that I like having a good friendly atmosphere for a tournament round. I want everyone to be happy, smiling and enjoying themselves. That doesn't mean that I will not call you for a rule violation. It's not petty, it's honest.
So if everyone lets it go and somebody who foot faulted won by one stroke, would that be a "win with honor?" If not, then what honor is attained by the people who let it go?
The Hammer
* Ace Member *
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Additionally, where would you draw the line? What if someone plants 3 feet to the right of their lie so they can get around a tree? Would you let that fly?
Stankyjahnke
Double Eagle Member
the whole foot fault thing just makes me angry. every you tube disc golf video someone always has to point out the foot faults in the comments. My thought is always if its obvious you say something. a second opinion helps.
Teebird Elvis
Par Member
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2013
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- 150
Not calling infractions during a tournament is like having a proctologist stick their finger in your mouth. Stick it where it belongs people.
Part of the problem with figuring this all out is the fact that there is no official; the players are the officials.
Yesterday I coached a kid's soccer game that was horrendously officiated; at one point a defender grabbed my striker and pulled him back while he was advancing the ball in front of the goal. Everyone in the place saw it except the officials, or they saw it as well and let it go. I told my players to do something that echoes what a lot of you are saying: Put on your big boy pants, suck it up, keep your mouth shut and play hard. They did and they won despite the horrible officiating. That gets drilled into us as players a lot, the whole "don't be whiners" thing where you just play hard to overcome the bad calls. We do that because we can't control the bad calls.
In disc golf, you CAN control the bad calls because you are the ones making them. The problem is that because you are competing on that card, you stand to benefit from the calls you make (good or bad.) So if you do a great job as an official, the perception is that you are making calls to help yourself.
That is why the whole notion of the self-officiated sport doesn't really work for disc golf. You have to have a very tight honor code in a sport to compete in a self-officiated setup. To have that sort of honor code, it has to be a team sport. You get that code drilled into players in practices by veteran team players. Ultimate has that. If disc golf had the same sort of honor code Ultimate had, GG would have called the foot fault on himself.
Disc golf does not have that sort of honor code. Disc golf is an individual sport; anybody who has the talent and puts in the effort can end up on a top card in an A flight. It doesn't have to be somebody who worked hard to be accepted onto an elite team and therefore will conform to the honor code of that group. It can be a lone wolf who worked hard and doesn't give a crap what anyone else thinks of them. With those types of individual, you can see people cheat expecting not to be called and people making bad calls to gain an advantage. I see a lot of the former, to the point that it is the norm. That just proves that self-officiating in disc golf doesn't work.
Yesterday I coached a kid's soccer game that was horrendously officiated; at one point a defender grabbed my striker and pulled him back while he was advancing the ball in front of the goal. Everyone in the place saw it except the officials, or they saw it as well and let it go. I told my players to do something that echoes what a lot of you are saying: Put on your big boy pants, suck it up, keep your mouth shut and play hard. They did and they won despite the horrible officiating. That gets drilled into us as players a lot, the whole "don't be whiners" thing where you just play hard to overcome the bad calls. We do that because we can't control the bad calls.
In disc golf, you CAN control the bad calls because you are the ones making them. The problem is that because you are competing on that card, you stand to benefit from the calls you make (good or bad.) So if you do a great job as an official, the perception is that you are making calls to help yourself.
That is why the whole notion of the self-officiated sport doesn't really work for disc golf. You have to have a very tight honor code in a sport to compete in a self-officiated setup. To have that sort of honor code, it has to be a team sport. You get that code drilled into players in practices by veteran team players. Ultimate has that. If disc golf had the same sort of honor code Ultimate had, GG would have called the foot fault on himself.
Disc golf does not have that sort of honor code. Disc golf is an individual sport; anybody who has the talent and puts in the effort can end up on a top card in an A flight. It doesn't have to be somebody who worked hard to be accepted onto an elite team and therefore will conform to the honor code of that group. It can be a lone wolf who worked hard and doesn't give a crap what anyone else thinks of them. With those types of individual, you can see people cheat expecting not to be called and people making bad calls to gain an advantage. I see a lot of the former, to the point that it is the norm. That just proves that self-officiating in disc golf doesn't work.
crashzero
Birdie Member
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I'll probably win anyways, and if I don't, it's probably not because of some foot faults
Its a conflict of interest to have competitors officiating each other.
Halcón
Free At Last
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This is true.
And Threeput is also right.
What we have is what we have. Until we have volunteers officiating, and following every card at majors, players must take the responibility for themselves to do the right thing.
Teebird Elvis
Par Member
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On a 18 basket course, 18 officials covers each tee spot and 18 covers each basket, all of them having binoculars to watch approach shots from both angles. Not so much feasible for the average tournament, but for those that draw multiple top 20 players, yes, it should be a requirement.
Still would not be a perfect world, but if well placed, they would be mostly out of the way of the players, allowing a normal flow to the game, not having the same exact official follow you around all day.
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