PDGA Major: 2022 PDGA Champions Cup Apr 14-17

[BionicRib]

Looks like the age restriction was added to the recent 2022 Competition Manual update.

Yeah I just don't remember seeing it in the list of updated changes before 2022. Unless I missed something

 

[Flick Maniac]

Holy crap, learn to read a room. Midway through a hotly-contested final round is not the time.

(I have my own gripes with some of the managerial decisions around this tourney, so I'm not surprised at all that something this ridiculous was done.)

Pls elaborate Id love to hear

 

[Flick Maniac]

Relative to their current and previous player ratings, Gannon Buhr's -13 was as impressive as Paul's -16 in terms of expectations/probability.

My +10 would be equally impressive?? Come now.

From a cold ratings math perspective, yes, but "impressive" seems like a stretch

 

[Nale72]

Major props to Kristin for being a total class act about it on social media and such. Tough situation: it is a rule, and rules should be enforced. Sounds like it could have been enforced with more compassion and care. Any word on if this was TD Robert Leonard being a butt hat or someone else?

If you watch/listen to this episode of the Nick and Matt show, Paige explains this whole story. She explains how she/they were affected, who brought it up, the time line etc. :



https://youtu.be/IsJReKeGgrQ?t=1812

 

[Jolt]

The way Kristin got this message is just so wierd, to go through Paiges caddie?!?

 

[Shallows]

If you watch/listen to this episode of the Nick and Matt show, Paige explains this whole story. She explains how she/they were affected, who brought it up, the time line etc. :



https://youtu.be/IsJReKeGgrQ?t=1812

Lol the lady doth protest too much

 

[Spectacledbear]

Women /shrug. I feel some envy in the air.

 

[Flick Maniac]

Somebody came after me in a group chat about this because apparently I couldnt know what it must have felt like as a mother. Well, you're not a father either so you cant know what THAT feels like, lets call it even.

I feel like everything considered, the outcome was fair. Could have spotted the problem earlier of course but cant catch em all I guess. And once they did, no matter who caught it and who relayed it to the TD, once he knows, cant really not do anything either. Having read the article (didnt watch the video although might want to check it out later too) I feel like they did it in a fashion that caused the least worry. I dont see anything in the UDisc stats that would jump out at me as Kristin being in huge distress and losing because of that.

The player also could have not brought a kid. Even setting aside knowing the rules - as apparently this was a fairly new addition that people might not be aware of - why would you put yourself in a situation like that even if it wasnt against the rules? What if she stumbles on a root, twists her ankle, or any of the dozen things that can and will go wrong with kids. Want to handle that while youre trying to win a major?

 

[Streets]

 

[BuiltTooLong]

Here's Paul's famous round. Ironically, he also shot his record round in the final round and didn't win. This event occurred before hole scores were recorded online. SSA was 53.0 with event par set at 56. Here's the video of Paul's 1132 round showing his score on each hole but no stats for the field.

Paul's round was just 1 of 4 rounds that eclipsed the 1100 mark that weekend. It doesn't seem like we'll ever have a tournament like that again. How many 1100+ rated rounds have there been over the past few years even?

Side note: Just noticed the highest rated player in the world, isn't even current. Chuck, can you see what Matthew Kelley #76276 rating would be if he renews?

 

[Cgkdisc]

My +10 would be equally impressive?? Come now.

From a cold ratings math perspective, yes, but "impressive" seems like a stretch

"Impressive" is a relativistic versus objective adjective. An objective score of -10 cannot be evaluated on the "impressiveness scale" without relativistic context. If a beginner and expert both shoot -10 on the same course, the beginner's round is more impressive than the expert's -10 regardless of whether -10 is a good score on an absolute scale. Paul and Gannon both shot a score about the same above their rating. Thus, they are similarly impressive relativistically.

 

[Ryan P.]

That's true. But, I don't think it suffers due to minimal elevation change.

Suffers, no. But it's fairly well-agreed that elevation adds potential to a plot of land, so a course as equally well designed with more elevation would be better.

 

[Shallows]

Rule 3.05: https://www.pdga.com/rules/competition-manual/305:
"A caddie is a person who carries a player's equipment or provides other assistance during the round. Players may designate one caddie at a time during their round. A caddie must be at least 13 years of age and must comply with the same Official Rules of Disc Golf and Competition Manual their player must follow, including the dress code, although a caddie need not be a PDGA member nor Certified Official."

Chris Dickerson could also be DQed if Brittany was walking with him as a designated caddy in a tank top?

 

[Ryan P.]

Yeah I meant first this year. BEast isn't bad but I've seen it a bunch because it's always at the beginning of the year when I'm still watching

Personally I think they should have this major tournament at this course at this time of year every year.

I want to see WR Jackson on coverage more. I don't want to get tired of seeing it. It'd stay fresh to me (and I'm guessing many others) much longer than other courses. But I wonder if we saw it every year for 10 years, would we still say the same thing?

I'm a much bigger fan of rotating courses on and off the tour. There are so many new championship courses being built. They need to have smaller tournaments first in order to work out the kinks of running a tourney on them, but I'd love to see them come onto the tour within a few years. Houck has 3 that he's specifically designed specifically with the pro tour in mind (not all are finished). I think the Eagle's crossing course is slightly over-hyped, but I still want to see it on the pro tour. Plus, all of the courses that are yet to be started.

I guess what I'm saying is I'd love to see WR Jackson on the tour every year right now, but in 3-5 years I'd hope that there were enough other good courses that it rotated on and off.

As a side note: Anyone know of any courses being designed with with the intent of maintaining variety on the same course? I know Winthrop Gold has changed over time to maintain variety; I'm more thinking of a non-wide-open-OB-laden course. Perhaps it'd have 3-5 tee and pin locations for each level, so there are 9+ combinations of how to play each hole? Or perhaps the first iteration they establish holes with large amounts of space between them so they can create other fairways/lanes over time?

 

[Flick Maniac]

Valid point. Could also be she is in photographer status like they were wont to do before when caddies were disallowed due to covid. If she is a caddy and not in any other official role, yes, she would need abide by the Dress code.

https://www.pdga.com/rules/competition-manual/304

Also, 3.05G also says:

In PDGA Majors and Elite Series events, the group consists of the players themselves, each player's individual caddie, any active Tournament staff such as leaderboard attendants, Tournament Officials, etc. and any credentialed media ONLY. No other people may be with the playing group. All others (including players who have already finished their round) are considered spectators and must remain in designated spectator areas away from the playing group.

https://www.pdga.com/rules/competition-manual/305

 

[Shallows]

Valid point. Could also be she is in photographer status like they were wont to do before when caddies were disallowed due to covid. If she is a caddy and not in any other official role, yes, she would need abide by the Dress code.

https://www.pdga.com/rules/competition-manual/304

Also, 3.05G also says:



https://www.pdga.com/rules/competition-manual/305

Calvin Heimburg with Madison Walker too then...

 

[Jolt]

Chris Dickerson could also be DQed if Brittany was walking with him as a designated caddy in a tank top?

I think Hokoms caddie a few months back had "not regular" clothes. . was some talk about that back then

 

[txmxer]

I want to see WR Jackson on coverage more. I don't want to get tired of seeing it. It'd stay fresh to me (and I'm guessing many others) much longer than other courses. But I wonder if we saw it every year for 10 years, would we still say the same thing?

I'm a much bigger fan of rotating courses on and off the tour. There are so many new championship courses being built. They need to have smaller tournaments first in order to work out the kinks of running a tourney on them, but I'd love to see them come onto the tour within a few years. Houck has 3 that he's specifically designed specifically with the pro tour in mind (not all are finished). I think the Eagle's crossing course is slightly over-hyped, but I still want to see it on the pro tour. Plus, all of the courses that are yet to be started.

I guess what I'm saying is I'd love to see WR Jackson on the tour every year right now, but in 3-5 years I'd hope that there were enough other good courses that it rotated on and off.

As a side note: Anyone know of any courses being designed with with the intent of maintaining variety on the same course? I know Winthrop Gold has changed over time to maintain variety; I'm more thinking of a non-wide-open-OB-laden course. Perhaps it'd have 3-5 tee and pin locations for each level, so there are 9+ combinations of how to play each hole? Or perhaps the first iteration they establish holes with large amounts of space between them so they can create other fairways/lanes over time?

Can't argue with this. Variety definitely keeps things interesting.

I'm not so eager for Eagles Crossing myself. In the skins match I was disappointed to see the use of so much OB rope on a course that has had so much $ put in to it. To me it feels much more like a putt-putt golf course (gimmicky) as opposed to a course like WRJ.

 

[Streets]

 

[Flick Maniac]

"Impressive" is a relativistic versus objective adjective. An objective score of -10 cannot be evaluated on the "impressiveness scale" without relativistic context. If a beginner and expert both shoot -10 on the same course, the beginner's round is more impressive than the expert's -10 regardless of whether -10 is a good score on an absolute scale. Paul and Gannon both shot a score about the same above their rating. Thus, they are similarly impressive relativistically.

Thats pretty much what I said. I studied English as my major for 5 years. I got it. I understand. The logic is flawless.

Its just that in real life, I dont think anyone would say it is equally impressive for me to lets say run 100 meters in 11 seconds out of the blue without ever training for it, than for Usain Bolt to run it in 9.58. Relativistically speaking, mine would likely be even more impressive in cold logic, given the starting point, but to say it out loud is not far from an insult to Mr. Bolt.