Proposed rule changes for 2024

[_MTL_]

The bigger problem the "clearing the run up" rule solves is by the letter of the law walking down the fairway and accidently with your foot knocking a stick or rock any measurable distance is a penalty.

 

[Sewer bill]

The bigger problem the "clearing the run up" rule solves is by the letter of the law walking down the fairway and accidently with your foot knocking a stick or rock any measurable distance is a penalty.

So you're saying I have to leave my rake and leaf blower in the truck?

 

[ru4por]

The issue is the same people score every round. There is nothing worse than getting on a card with people that don't want to keep score. This takes all the awkwardness away and is fair across the board. Everyone has to do it. The only conversation a TD needs to have is "using your phone or need paper?"

I usually have some paper cards on/in my cart. If I get one of the perpetual scorekeeper decliners [every area has several], I simply bust out a paper card and pencil and thank them for volunteering to keep the paper back up score. Usually followed by some himming and hawing, transitioning to some grumbling. Shrug...

 

[Sewer bill]

I usually have some paper cards on/in my cart. If I get one of the perpetual scorekeeper decliners [every area has several], I simply bust out a paper card and pencil and thank them for volunteering to keep the paper back up score. Usually followed by some himming and hawing, transitioning to some grumbling. Shrug...

I'm that guy refusing to carry my phone in case work calls so I would gladly keep paper backup score.

 

[ballgolfconvert]

I don't understand the benefit of having more than two people keeping score on the app.

At the completion of every hole, each person is asked their score, and their score is entered. If there's a discrepancy between the two on the app, it appears immediately and is resolved - if necessary by querying all players to ensure the right scores are entered. End of story.

I guess it's statistically more likely to find errors when four people are recording scores instead of two - and easier to resolve where 3 cards say one thing, and one says something else.

But is it really worth it? Yeah, I roll my eyes a little at the guys 10 years younger than me saying they can't work the app. And the guys who "forget" their phones. But we used to be able to handle this with one piece of paper, a pencil, some basic arithmetic, and passing around the card at the end of the round. Digital scorekeeping has really improved the experience...but do we really need to push it out further?

It doesn't make any sense except when you look at equalizing the burden on the players. I personally enjoy keeping score so never a burden for me, but for some players it really screws up their focus. It will be a good learning opportunity for them, even though I think the rule goes too far.

 

[Rastnav]

The bigger problem the "clearing the run up" rule solves is by the letter of the law walking down the fairway and accidently with your foot knocking a stick or rock any measurable distance is a penalty.

It only solves it in the case where you are farther from the target than your lie. That may be true for most cases, but nowhere near all of them. That's the big point I'm trying to make.

Heck, with a mandatory involved, your lie in the fairway after your tee shot can be farther from the basket than the tee box.

 

[BionicRib]

I'm that guy refusing to carry my phone in case work calls so I would gladly keep paper backup score.

I prefer to keep my blood pressure down during a tournament also.

…..looks to see what tournaments ru4por is playing next year…..

 

[ChrisWoj]

My email to the PDGA to share my feedback.....

Here's mine:

My big problem with the proposal is the pointlessness of banning non-PDGA members from C Tiers. It is a solution to a problem that I do not perceive as existing, or if it does: barely exists, associated primarily with TDs not being aware of their options.

The Competition Manual, under 1.02.C.2 and further under subsection 2.a allows a permitted unlimited exception for the creation of early registration tiers based on minimum player rating. It isn't perfect (for example, it is still exclusionary to first-month sanctioned players, as is) - but you can easily set an early registration rating tier with a minimum of something like 500. And you're all set.

Better than banning non-PDGA Members - how about adding language in 1.02.C.2.a that allows for early registration tiers based on current PDGA membership, and then advertising that option prominently to Tournament Directors.

This solution would provide necessary flexibility to PDGA communities with events that fill quickly, allowing PDGA members a chance to get into sanctioned events. And the PDGA would retain the income from non-member fees in communities that can't fill their events or come close without the support of non-members.

 

[PastorofMuppets]

I feel like making all C-Tier participants be pdga members but then creating a D-Tier is redundant. I do get that "technically" 1 round Flex starts violate the "random" or by rating card creation rules, but adding another tier seems counterproductive. I won't even get started on how bad making everyone on the card keep score (outside of say Majors and Elite Series) is going to be a pain, specifically for TD's. It's adding even more work to TD's for a non issue. I would have been much more happy with Top of card has to keep score, second on card has to keep backup. That way you get your two score cards, there's no "my phone doesn't have signal or battery life" and it's based on standings and how you play. This entire "rules update" seems unnecessary in almost every instance, and doesn't address glaring rules issues that need addressing.

 

[txmxer]

I feel like making all C-Tier participants be pdga members but then creating a D-Tier is redundant. I do get that "technically" 1 round Flex starts violate the "random" or by rating card creation rules, but adding another tier seems counterproductive. I won't even get started on how bad making everyone on the card keep score (outside of say Majors and Elite Series) is going to be a pain, specifically for TD's. It's adding even more work to TD's for a non issue. I would have been much more happy with Top of card has to keep score, second on card has to keep backup. That way you get your two score cards, there's no "my phone doesn't have signal or battery life" and it's based on standings and how you play. This entire "rules update" seems unnecessary in almost every instance, and doesn't address glaring rules issues that need addressing.

Not that I disagree, but can you point out some of the issues that you feel need to be addressed?

 

[PastorofMuppets]

Not that I disagree, but can you point out some of the issues that you feel need to be addressed?

The two biggest off the top of my head are probably post production hot stamps, stickers, disc modifications, etc. Still a ton of grey area and the reddit post only made this even more of hot button topic. Related to it, the "calling" of an illegal disc still puts a lot of the verifying legality on the TD, like "by rule" having to weigh discs whose weight is called into question. Not that it happens often, but this rule needs a ton of cleaning up. The trans participation rules need tweaking as neither side seem to agree they are sufficient, though not an absolutely horrendous start, because all out inclusion and conversely a full ban both are unlikely to occur. Just as unlikely is this issue going to go away simply because they kick the can down the road and wait for bigger sports organizations or the Supreme Court to handle it for them. (For instance, how is a small town C-Tier TD expected to impose the current rules and enforce them, especially if they are in the difficult position of not knowing they have a trans player until the morning of the event. Or how do they deal with security and safety of players from protesters). I do appreciate them forcing A-Tiers to offer the top level female divisions regardless.

Not big, but needing consideration is the step putt. Some of these circles edge step putts are so close to being foot faults or being just barely good/bad. It is very difficult to call in person (correctly) either way, so I feel like most cards just let it go as a good putt attempt.

Wish list items - That the PDGA focus on the Professional side of disc golf and have a separate but connected branch/rules that focuses on the AM side. Or the thing I hear complained about the most, AM rating caps for divisions are revisited and adjusted. Though that's not a personal one, it matters to some though. Hazards be removed from Disc Golf, it's either safe, OB, or a casual relief area. Again, a complaint I hear a lot.

 

[zenbot]

I will be playing zero PDGA events now. Requiring membership for B and now C-Tiers is a ludicrous cash grab. They could have continued to take my $10 for non-PDGA status. I could understand if all open divisions had that requirement but certainly not on the Am side.

IMO This is the opposite of growing the sport.

 

[ballgolfconvert]

The two biggest off the top of my head are probably post production hot stamps, stickers, disc modifications, etc. Still a ton of grey area and the reddit post only made this even more of hot button topic. Related to it, the "calling" of an illegal disc still puts a lot of the verifying legality on the TD, like "by rule" having to weigh discs whose weight is called into question. Not that it happens often, but this rule needs a ton of cleaning up. The trans participation rules need tweaking as neither side seem to agree they are sufficient, though not an absolutely horrendous start, because all out inclusion and conversely a full ban both are unlikely to occur. Just as unlikely is this issue going to go away simply because they kick the can down the road and wait for bigger sports organizations or the Supreme Court to handle it for them. (For instance, how is a small town C-Tier TD expected to impose the current rules and enforce them, especially if they are in the difficult position of not knowing they have a trans player until the morning of the event. Or how do they deal with security and safety of players from protesters). I do appreciate them forcing A-Tiers to offer the top level female divisions regardless.

Not big, but needing consideration is the step putt. Some of these circles edge step putts are so close to being foot faults or being just barely good/bad. It is very difficult to call in person (correctly) either way, so I feel like most cards just let it go as a good putt attempt.

Wish list items - That the PDGA focus on the Professional side of disc golf and have a separate but connected branch/rules that focuses on the AM side. Or the thing I hear complained about the most, AM rating caps for divisions are revisited and adjusted. Though that's not a personal one, it matters to some though. Hazards be removed from Disc Golf, it's either safe, OB, or a casual relief area. Again, a complaint I hear a lot.

 

[ballgolfconvert]

I think hazards should be more widely used in disc golf but not in the way that disc golf currently uses them. I personally play a bunch of courses which have water protected by 12-15' of dense forest. Under the current rules, if you end up through the border into the water, then, under the OB rules, you have to drop where you don't really have any kind of shot. Thus, it's basically a 2nd penalty just to get back in play. I would like to see the tree line played as a hazard which should allow you the choice to play from inside the tree line if not wet, or take a stroke and drop outside of the tree line whether wet or not (pretty automatic if you already wet).

 

[PastorofMuppets]

I think hazards should be more widely used in disc golf but not in the way that disc golf currently uses them. I personally play a bunch of courses which have water protected by 12-15' of dense forest. Under the current rules, if you end up through the border into the water, then, under the OB rules, you have to drop where you don't really have any kind of shot. Thus, it's basically a 2nd penalty just to get back in play. I would like to see the tree line played as a hazard which should allow you the choice to play from inside the tree line if not wet, or take a stroke and drop outside of the tree line whether wet or not (pretty automatic if you already wet).

I would agree with this for the most part. I think Hazards are poorly utilized currently, getting the distance plus a stroke penalty, plus having to play from an unsafe lie (why is it a hazard if the lie is safe in the first place) is too much penalty for one bad throw. Your example gives a good example of being punished multiple times for a bad shot. I feel like Hazards are also an example of double punishment in a lot of cases, not always, but enough to warrant the bad feels.

 

[txmxer]

The two biggest off the top of my head are probably post production hot stamps, stickers, disc modifications, etc. Still a ton of grey area and the reddit post only made this even more of hot button topic. Related to it, the "calling" of an illegal disc still puts a lot of the verifying legality on the TD, like "by rule" having to weigh discs whose weight is called into question. Not that it happens often, but this rule needs a ton of cleaning up. The trans participation rules need tweaking as neither side seem to agree they are sufficient, though not an absolutely horrendous start, because all out inclusion and conversely a full ban both are unlikely to occur. Just as unlikely is this issue going to go away simply because they kick the can down the road and wait for bigger sports organizations or the Supreme Court to handle it for them. (For instance, how is a small town C-Tier TD expected to impose the current rules and enforce them, especially if they are in the difficult position of not knowing they have a trans player until the morning of the event. Or how do they deal with security and safety of players from protesters). I do appreciate them forcing A-Tiers to offer the top level female divisions regardless.

Not big, but needing consideration is the step putt. Some of these circles edge step putts are so close to being foot faults or being just barely good/bad. It is very difficult to call in person (correctly) either way, so I feel like most cards just let it go as a good putt attempt.

Wish list items - That the PDGA focus on the Professional side of disc golf and have a separate but connected branch/rules that focuses on the AM side. Or the thing I hear complained about the most, AM rating caps for divisions are revisited and adjusted. Though that's not a personal one, it matters to some though. Hazards be removed from Disc Golf, it's either safe, OB, or a casual relief area. Again, a complaint I hear a lot.

thanks--those are great points.

 

[peabody]

So the QA-MAT-1 conceding an opponents putt.
So if I say "that's good" and my opponent taps it in---and I call him on it he has another stroke added to his score? I always thought you had to tap in to finish the hole. There shouldn't be any conceding putts at any tournament A B C or D.

 

[ru4por]

So the QA-MAT-1 conceding an opponents putt.
So if I say "that's good" and my opponent taps it in---and I call him on it he has another stroke added to his score? I always thought you had to tap in to finish the hole. There shouldn't be any conceding putts at any tournament A B C or D.

The question is referring to match play only. Concession of a putt ,by your opponent, constitutes a hole out and completion of the hole. In singles or doubles stroke play, all competitors must indeed hole out.

 

[txmxer]

The question is referring to match play only. Concession of a putt ,by your opponent, constitutes a hole out and completion of the hole. In singles or doubles stroke play, all competitors must indeed hole out.

To clarify, in match play, if an opponent says "that's good " and the player proceeds to pitch the disc in the basket, is that an additional stroke?

Not sure how it would matter once the hole is conceded. Maybe a non-issue.

But then there are the practice throw rules and such.

Personally, in match play I would see each hole as its own standalone competition. You win/lose/draw and things like practice throws would be irrelevant, but maybe a courtesy issue.

 

[ru4por]

To clarify, in match play, if an opponent says "that's good " and the player proceeds to pitch the disc in the basket, is that an additional stroke?

Not sure how it would matter once the hole is conceded. Maybe a non-issue.

But then there are the practice throw rules and such.

Personally, in match play I would see each hole as its own standalone competition. You win/lose/draw and things like practice throws would be irrelevant, but maybe a courtesy issue.

It doesn't matter how we might see it. The rules cover this.

Once your opponent concedes a putt, you have completed the hole. A putt thrown after that is an extra throw. A throw after that is a practice throw. The first extra throw incurs a warning; subsequent ones incur penalty throws. The penalty for a practice throw is added to the number of throws it takes you to complete the next hole.