Why don't Tournament Directors get paid?

[smyith]

They do get paid, in a sense, if they are their own payout vendor and have custom discs ran for their events out of pocket. They buy the discs at whatever $8-12 per and do the payouts at retail levels $16-18. Then whatever additional merch they sell at the event supplements the payout income.

Like any Dynamic Discs tourney...they are not always making a killing, but they ain't doing it for free.

i bet you 99%+ of the merch payout goes right back into the event or the next event. and the small percentage that doesn't get put right back in the tournament usually goes towards something to improve the quality of their tournaments, awnings, score sheets, etc.

p.s. had you read the thread you would have already seen this argument presented and the responses by actual TDs

 

[Atrain]

I wonder if there'll be a day where people expect players to play for the love of the sport, for the fun, for his passion, and not for the money they get?

Well said Mr. Sauls!!!:clap::clap::clap:


How can so many of you expect for the a TD to sacrifice countless hours of work and take on all that stress for the love of the game, but you can't go PLAY, compete, and enjoy a tournament for your own love of the game?

Sounds a little hypocritical and self-righteous, doesn't it?

 

[pablo.diablo]

Any good TD would put profit back into their events, that's what I always do. I don't have all day to read threads, sorry Smitty.

 

[CaptainAnhyzer]

The people who run events while working full time and entirely non-disc-golf-related jobs and have families are, and I mean this with all kinds of love, a bit nuts. I don't know how you do it, or more accurately, I don't know how you keep doing it year after year.

I'll take that as a compliment, lol............. Thanks !

 

[scarpfish]

Paying people for a volunteer job brings out the money heathens that have no business running an event.

Players always have a right not to play in a particular heathen's event if they feel he's being overcompensated.

 

[CaptainAnhyzer]

Players always have a right not to play in a particular heathen's event if they feel he's being overcompensated.

...as long as said heathen is up front and transparent about his compensation. Either way, if you chooses to start running tourneys primarily for the money-making opportunity, you won't last long.

 

[Atrain]

Any good TD would put profit back into their events, that's what I always do. I don't have all day to read threads, sorry Smitty.

That's exactly what we're talking about!! Why do we expect TDs to donate all of their time? Why shouldn't they get paid to do all that work? We're not talking about making a living here or even making minimum wage. But if a TD of C-tier puts 60 hours into coordinating ALL of the goings-on of the tournament why couldn't he/she be able to take home $3-5 per player? Even if it was 5 and they attracted 60 players and they did only put in 60 hours, that's 5/hour. That is by no means a lot, but then they might be able to take their family our for a fun day to offset time spent away from them or something like that.

In most cases, they're probably going to spend most of it either on the next event, or their home course, or sponsoring another tournament, or something to use at their events like a new scoreport or somethig. It doesn't matter what they spend it on.

TDs of our B and C tiers are the backbone of our sport and we need to change our greedy culture to nurture their AWESOME passion and love for the game.

 

[Chains Bailey]

i bet you 99%+ of the merch payout goes right back into the event or the next event. and the small percentage that doesn't get put right back in the tournament usually goes towards something to improve the quality of their tournaments, awnings, score sheets, etc.

This is 100% true for the multiple PDGA events that I TD...any funds left over at the end of the year go directly back into the events.

It may rarely happen, and only be $100-200, but that equates to a new Scorepointe' leader-board / Event Banners / Unique Tee-Signs / Course Improvement and so much more...

I, fortunately, was given a bit of a blessing by the local players one year that took any guilt away from making a "profit", which is used as stated above. Never feeling right about keeping the Ace-Pot previous years, I had always offered a CTP at the end of events for the Ace-Pot (If no one had aced during that event). At one event, I announced for the players to gather together for the CTP (For the Ace-Pot) money and to my surprise the majority, if not all, of them just yelled out to keep it --- I was shocked, but must admit I took it as a compliment.

So, now on the Ace-Pot sign up I note that if no aces - the money will go to other area events.

As for getting paid --- it is offered in the PDGA guidelines and the PDGA sent an email to TDs asking just this question, I responded NO, with suggestions of how the money could be used if it were ever mandated.

I just do not see how putting money in my pocket will help the sport or make events any better --- with that said, I would thank anyone for their support and good intentions suggesting that TDs should be paid.

The general sentiment is enough "pay" in my opinion.

 

[smyith]

How can so many of you expect for the a TD to sacrifice countless hours of work and take on all that stress for the love of the game, but you can't go PLAY, compete, and enjoy a tournament for your own love of the game?

Sounds a little hypocritical and self-righteous, doesn't it?

BAMM!

 

[dandaman]

I think TD's should have to pay for the privilege of running tournaments. I mean why should I as a player ever have to compensate for the expenses that a TD incurs for running an event? I mean he's the one who decided to run the event, not me. It's his baby, he gets to call all the shots. With all that power comes responsibility. It's his responsibility that he comes up with all the funds needed to run the event. If he came out of his own pocket to cover expenses well then he should have tried harder to secure more sponsorships. I don't want to compensate a TD because he didn't spend the extra few hours or days to do so.

Being a tournament director is a serious responsibility.TD's should pay for this privilege of serving the players. I mean without the players they couldn't run their events now could they? I as a player want them to serve me. Without me their tournament doesn't exist.

 

[smyith]

^^^man I hope people pickup on your sarcasm

 

[dusty5150]

^^^man I hope people pickup on your sarcasm

I'm trying to figure out of that was sarcasm :\

 

[dandaman]

I'm trying to figure out of that was sarcasm :\

I like my line on how the TD should be serving me.

 

[DavidSauls]

Dandaman, that's a classic.

 

[pablo.diablo]

TD's usually don't earn profit b/c there's nothing worse than listening to whiny pros bitching about non-100% payouts.

 

[_MTL_]

TD's usually don't earn profit b/c there's nothing worse than listening to whiny pros bitching about non-100% payouts.

Every tournament I've ever ran (and I'm running my 21st sanctioned event this weekend, and I've ran everything from a C tier to a Major [haven't ran an NT but I've assisted in one]) makes profit.

I'm not sure why people don't think events / td's make profits off their events?

 

[Chains Bailey]

Every tournament I've ever ran (and I'm running my 21st sanctioned event this weekend, and I've ran everything from a C tier to a Major [haven't ran an NT but I've assisted in one]) makes profit.

I'm not sure why people don't think events / td's make profits off their events?

I can answer that --- in the area I TD, rural and economically challenged, there are no funds.

No club / No sponsorship opportunity

(Although I did finally get ONE local sponsor 2 years ago - this is after almost 30 events over 12 years)

So, the ONLY available money for the events and all expenses are from 5 sources.

1. AM entries (Call it merch' profit)
2. CTP for a basket (After basket expense is covered)
3. Raffle for bag and discs (After merchandise expense is covered)
4. Occasional sponsorship from other clubs/people
5. Myself

The only dependable source is the AM entry fees --- if the others do not produce decent numbers then there is most certainly problems in financial terms. If there is bad weather for even 1 event - lowering turnout, out of the four I TD annually, then it becomes very difficult to break even by years end.

Add to the usual event costs -

- The need to offer B-Tiers for better attendance - $500
- Unique scorecards and materials for courses that are 20 / 22 / 10 holes verse the standard 18
- Not deducting any money from the Pro entry fees, again to promote attendance
- And many more costs....(I just do not feel like typing all of them)

I am not complaining, just giving an example of how different regions pose their own set of financial differences.

 

[Dave242]

Every tournament I've ever ran makes profit.
I'm not sure why people don't think events / td's make profits off their events?

I'm not saying you are not profitable or that events cannot be profitable, but this discussion has a lot to do with semantics IMO.

Does the event pay fair market value for everything?
Amortization for equipment used during preparation and running the event (mowers, supplies, tents, coolers, etc.)
Hourly wage for workers
Mileage for tournament workers
etc...

If not (and I'd like to see the books for even one event that does), then the value of these are accepted in by the event as a form of sponsorship....along with the merchandise and dollars that are taken in as sponsorship. And let's face it, sponsors of DG events are not expecting a positive financial ROI.

So, calling something "profitable" when a huge chunk of the profits are donations is not the typical way that word is used in the financial world.

 

[_MTL_]

I can answer that --- in the area I TD, rural and economically challenged, there are no funds.

No club / No sponsorship opportunity

(Although I did finally get ONE local sponsor 2 years ago - this is after almost 30 events over 12 years)

So, the ONLY available money for the events and all expenses are from 5 sources.

1. AM entries (Call it merch' profit)
2. CTP for a basket (After basket expense is covered)
3. Raffle for bag and discs (After merchandise expense is covered)
4. Occasional sponsorship from other clubs/people
5. Myself

The only dependable source is the AM entry fees --- if the others do not produce decent numbers then there is most certainly problems in financial terms. If there is bad weather for even 1 event - lowering turnout, out of the four I TD annually, then it becomes very difficult to break even by years end.

Add to the usual event costs -

- The need to offer B-Tiers for better attendance - $500
- Unique scorecards and materials for courses that are 20 / 22 / 10 holes verse the standard 18
- Not deducting any money from the Pro entry fees, again to promote attendance
- And many more costs....(I just do not feel like typing all of them)

I am not complaining, just giving an example of how different regions pose their own set of financial differences.

A lot of these things are optional.

For example, you don't have to have a B tier. You don't have to give a CTP as a basket. You don't have to have special scorecards.

I'm not saying don't do those things - because they are awesome. But without these, you would be making a profit. You are chosing not to.

 

[Chains Bailey]

A lot of these things are optional.

For example, you don't have to have a B tier. You don't have to give a CTP as a basket. You don't have to have special scorecards.

I'm not saying don't do those things - because they are awesome. But without these, you would be making a profit. You are chosing not to.

You are wrong about all three (To an extent):

The CTP for the basket and Raffle are MUST haves --- they are ways to pay for event costs. Without them, the other 3 listed financial streams would not cover costs by years end.

The B-Tier can be viewed as optional, but the reality is that the tier level has a direct link to attendance. The B-Tier requirement of players pack and added $500 are what attract people to the events over other options locally and regionally. I would like to make them all C-Tiers and pay out as a B-Tier (Saving on PDGA fees + sanctioning), but getting that information out and understood is a losing battle.

The scorecards are not optional for all events --- the 20 hole course does not follow the numbers 1-20 and includes an "X and Y" designation for 2 holes - the 22 hole course it is also needed - (I guess I could use a standard 18 hole card for the 10 hole course)...that is a choice I make, I want the event to be unique and memorable.

I understand your view as it being "optional", and in the truest sense of the word you are correct, but the region / attendance / non-optional costs relatively dictate these necessities.