Wysoki vs. McBeth

[corin_brown]

…because he was in Europe playing a tournament.

Right, sorry, my bad. I should have said the St. Jude. I knew he skipped a big one in there somewhere that everyone else played.

 

[corin_brown]

He most certainly would not blame his luck, he makes his own luck and to argue otherwise is pretty offensive to someone who works as hard as he does. and he does.

I never said McBeth has ever blamed anything on luck, so to say that I'm 1) putting words in his mouth and 2) am arguing that he does talk about luck and 3) am being offensive to him is all incorrect.

I wouldn't expect McBeth to say that luck played any part on the final hole of Euro Masters, just as I wouldn't expect Rick to say it was lucky that when his drive on 18 popped up and started rolling OB, it abruptly hit the 10-inch wide trunk of a random tree and sat down inbounds, setting up his sick upshot to win.

 

[SD86]

I always thought that McBeth was the strongest player when it comes to the mental game, but looking at him now he kind of does have a little bit of Nikko in him; when he makes a small mistake he's clapping loud, hitting himself with the disc on the leg etc. He's using mental energy on things he shouldn't be using it on. It's easy to look like you got the mental game of Dalai Lama when you're dominating. The true test is when you're facing rougher times, and it appears to me that McBeth still got a bit improvement to go on that aspect of the game

I generally agree. A few points:

1) A *lot* of players slap their thighs or clap their hands or drub the ground when they miss or make a bad shot. McBeth is not out of the ordinary there (nor is Ricky Wysocki). Neither of them are ANYWHERE near Nikko Locastro in gesticulations and language, either...

2) Something agreeing with your point that I noticed is that McBeth begins "pressing" when he was ahead and then finds himself behind. To wit: when Jordan Spieth in golf ball golf had that disaster on the 12th at the Masters, he went from four up to one back (IIRC)... he was still right in it. But he began pressing, trying to hit balls farther, taking more chances, and he really got out of his game by doing that. And he lost.

Same with McBeth... in one of the earlier tournaments (I think it was the GBO), he really started pressing to try to catch up. And in pressing, he missed a putt here and there, and his drives weren't as solid as normal. I thought he pushed too hard, and THAT cost him as much as anything. This is not abnormal; a lot of people and teams do this when they were ahead and then suddenly get down. McBeth is not immune, and hopefully he'll learn from it and not press too hard but stay in his game if and when he gets down late in a tournament.

 

[sidewinder22]

I feel for you

so sad

 

[Discette]

I always thought that McBeth was the strongest player when it comes to the mental game, but looking at him now he kind of does have a little bit of Nikko in him; when he makes a small mistake he's clapping loud, hitting himself with the disc on the leg etc. He's using mental energy on things he shouldn't be using it on. It's easy to look like you got the mental game of Dalai Lama when you're dominating. The true test is when you're facing rougher times, and it appears to me that McBeth still got a bit improvement to go on that aspect of the game

My two cents.

While I don't agree that Paul's behavior is Nikko-esque, this year Paul has become emotional and he has started reacting to his shots. The past few years, Paul always seemed very stoic with a total game face and he rarely reacted to good shots or bad shots. Remember how unemotional Paul looked when Terry stuck the microphone in his face after his win at Portland Worlds? He was still in full-on, emotionless Beast mode. Now Paul appears to be getting emotional about his play and it could be interfering with his ability to focus.

 

[tbird888]

Paul started getting "vocal" the next tourney immediately following the DGWT announcement (I think it was the HOF Classic). I remember watching the videos, hearing his chatter and thinking how it was new. Whether it was talking to his disc mid flight or showing emotion over a bad shot, it hardly seems coincidental. Regardless, it definitely looks like he's stressing himself unnecessarily. His incredible consistency is infinitely more interesting than him showing emotion.

 

[dorseymatt]

Reacting emotionally to a bad shot means nothing, as long as it doesn't affect the next shot.

 

[blackcatsmith]

ah love...

 

[sidewinder22]

ah love...

Yeah, you are telling me.

 

[lyleoross]

Paul started getting "vocal" the next tourney immediately following the DGWT announcement (I think it was the HOF Classic). I remember watching the videos, hearing his chatter and thinking how it was new. Whether it was talking to his disc mid flight or showing emotion over a bad shot, it hardly seems coincidental. Regardless, it definitely looks like he's stressing himself unnecessarily. His incredible consistency is infinitely more interesting than him showing emotion.

I'm not sure this isn't a difference in how they are editing, they being the guys doing DGWT and Pro. I've often seen Paul turn to talk to players, and even walk over to them, but there was no audio. Now it's there. I admit I have seen more frustration on his part, but that is common, by my observation, amongst all players. The degree varies, and given the high level of success he had last year, you wouldn't expect a whole lot of it. Even when Paul was on you'd hear him comment about a drive he didn't like, only to have it drop under tha basket. I often wondered what he thought went wrong.

Ricky is significantly more stoic than Paul. You can see when he is mad, but there isn't much verbiage about it. On the other hand, I went through the Ricky crushes at Minnesota video from the Majestic, and I thought I heard a couple of things from him, both about good and bad shots. Again, I wonder if this isn't simply mic placement, and technique?

 

[lyleoross]

I generally agree. A few points:


2) Something agreeing with your point that I noticed is that McBeth begins "pressing" when he was ahead and then finds himself behind. To wit: when Jordan Spieth in golf ball golf had that disaster on the 12th at the Masters, he went from four up to one back (IIRC)... he was still right in it. But he began pressing, trying to hit balls farther, taking more chances, and he really got out of his game by doing that. And he lost.

I agree with this. When he is one or two shots behind, typically in the last round, he takes riskier shots, IMO, and as you'd expect, it doesn't work well. Be careful though, the McBeth fanboys are going to get on you, just like the Ricky ones do if you say he melts on occassion.

All players have some weaknesses (Climo whines) it's part of what makes the game interesting, and discussions like these fun.

 

[joecoin]

ah love...

That's what I'm thinkin'. All those tattoos.

 

[tbird888]

I'm not sure this isn't a difference in how they are editing, they being the guys doing DGWT and Pro. I've often seen Paul turn to talk to players, and even walk over to them, but there was no audio. Now it's there. I admit I have seen more frustration on his part, but that is common, by my observation, amongst all players. The degree varies, and given the high level of success he had last year, you wouldn't expect a whole lot of it. Even when Paul was on you'd hear him comment about a drive he didn't like, only to have it drop under tha basket. I often wondered what he thought went wrong.

Ricky is significantly more stoic than Paul. You can see when he is mad, but there isn't much verbiage about it. On the other hand, I went through the Ricky crushes at Minnesota video from the Majestic, and I thought I heard a couple of things from him, both about good and bad shots. Again, I wonder if this isn't simply mic placement, and technique?

Considering it started happening immediately after the DGWT was announced (not actually in full swing) and it happened in the middle of his throws, I don't know how that stuff could've been edited out of all the videos prior to the announcement, regardless of who was doing the filming...

 

[rennic]

I often wondered what he thought went wrong.

He's not just aiming for the basket. He's also aiming for a gap or window in the air and for certain amounts of English on the disc. When he parks a basket with a throw he's unhappy with, it generally means he missed his window and/or did a throwing motion that put too little or too much English on the disc. He's unhappy because he knows if he were to make the same error on less forgiving holes, he'd be in the rough rather than in the circle. For him, that's unacceptable.

 

[Pbmercil]

2) Something agreeing with your point that I noticed is that McBeth begins "pressing" when he was ahead and then finds himself behind. To wit: when Jordan Spieth in golf ball golf had that disaster on the 12th at the Masters, he went from four up to one back (IIRC)... he was still right in it. But he began pressing, trying to hit balls farther, taking more chances, and he really got out of his game by doing that. And he lost.

Same with McBeth... in one of the earlier tournaments (I think it was the GBO), he really started pressing to try to catch up. And in pressing, he missed a putt here and there, and his drives weren't as solid as normal. I thought he pushed too hard, and THAT cost him as much as anything. This is not abnormal; a lot of people and teams do this when they were ahead and then suddenly get down. McBeth is not immune, and hopefully he'll learn from it and not press too hard but stay in his game if and when he gets down late in a tournament.

I don't think that's really true. Its just that when McBeth's shot execution starts to falter a little bit it *appears* that he's pressing. But he's that wide open, high intensity aggressive go for everything ALL the time. When it works he absolutely destroys the field. When things start to go a little wrong he gets himself into more trouble then he has to, but his scramble game is so insane its usually justified to be that aggressive.

 

[Shipley]

Reacting emotionally to a bad shot means nothing, as long as it doesn't affect the next shot.

Reacting emotionally to a bad shot, USUALLY results in poor play. It's better to keep your emotions under check.

 

[McFer]

Reacting emotionally to a bad shot, USUALLY results in poor play. It's better to keep your emotions under check.

Everybody's different. Some folks can have an immediate, visceral reaction to failure and it clears their system - instead of walking around holding it it. Some folks can truly forget it and move on. It's a matter of finding out what works without going full Happy Gilmore.

 

[MrGlass01]

Everybody's different. Some folks can have an immediate, visceral reaction to failure and it clears their system - instead of walking around holding it it. Some folks can truly forget it and move on. It's a matter of finding out what works without going full Happy Gilmore.

That is me to a tee, although on the course I mostly stay composed but I play soooo much better pissed off!

 

[rennic]

Everybody's different. Some folks can have an immediate, visceral reaction to failure and it clears their system - instead of walking around holding it it. Some folks can truly forget it and move on. It's a matter of finding out what works without going full Happy Gilmore.

I don't think this is true. What you're talking about is catharsis, and modern scientific studies on catharsis, or at least the studies included into my psych textbooks, say that expressing anger like that just disposes people for more anger. The people you're referring to could be clearing their system not because they let their anger out but despite letting their anger out.

 

[McFer]

I don't think this is true. What you're talking about is catharsis, and modern scientific studies on catharsis, or at least the studies included into my psych textbooks, say that expressing anger like that just disposes people for more anger. The people you're referring to could be clearing their system not because they let their anger out but despite letting their anger out.

I'm just talking about what I see with fellow disc golfers...and I see disc golfers who HAVE to let a little gas out or they'll eat themselves from the inside out. And if the studies you're citing suggest that *many* people are opened up to more anger after acting out, that doesn't fit what I'm talking about - that not everyone is the same and some folks can kick their bag and then move on.