[Mids] Innova DX Roc

[SaROCaM]

Currently 7, 1 Champ, 1 Star, 1 KC, 4 DX.
Champ - Overstable, Star - Slightly Overstable, KC Neutral to slightly Overstable, DX - Ranging from Neutral to understable

Flippy Neutral Stable doesnt cover enough of my shot making ability in Mids but I know Im an outlier here since I can throw rocs almost 400' For me all of my rocs are just slightly different from each other, enough so that I warrant carrying more. I could add 2 more rocs to this if I wanted to cover the super overstable side and the super understable side but I have yet to find that super overstable roc and I dont have a ton of use for a roller roc

Curious what Champ Roc are you throwing? It seems possible that the super OS Roc you are looking for might not exist now or ever. Anything come close?

 

[jakebake91]

I like to cycle because I know how the discs will fly from time spent throwing them.

.

I greatly enjoy this discussion, when it can be had civilly haha. It's absolutely fascinating to me the difference in theories.

Isn't the point of the cycle that these discs are constantly changing/evolving? How does one truly get to know a disc when it's, by design, slowly getting more beat in and the flight is changing?

My argument, for my bag setup, is that I don't play enough and/or abuse my mids enough to really get a cycle going in reasonable time. I don't want to go try to find a bunch of previously loved discs that are just so, to fill my slots. I have my two main core premium plastic mids that honestly cover all my mid work. I'm also not much of a mid thrower, being more likely to mash a putter or throw a slow fairway.

I can certainly see both sides. To each their own!

 

[Horsman]

Curious what Champ Roc are you throwing? It seems possible that the super OS Roc you are looking for might not exist now or ever. Anything come close?

I have been using an 06' Big Eye for maybe 10 years now. Still my mos overstable roc. Ive tried tons of champ ranchos and a lot of them are overstable but most are too domey or the champ blend just isnt right. I have yet to get my hands on a 4x Glow since I dont want to pay the price but I have heard that last years iDyes came out pretty overstable and since feeling but have yet to find one at a decent price. I like my rocs to have just a mild done to them and most recent runs of ranchos are just too domey.

 

[Horsman]

I greatly enjoy this discussion, when it can be had civilly haha. It's absolutely fascinating to me the difference in theories.

Isn't the point of the cycle that these discs are constantly changing/evolving? How does one truly get to know a disc when it's, by design, slowly getting more beat in and the flight is changing?

So you still get to know your discs just as well even if they are just slightly changing a bit quicker. I have had DX rocs in my bag for years that I have gone thru the full cycle of brand new to super flippy and I have never had an issue with learning how they fly since I am there with my discs thru the entire beating in process. I enjoy the process and for someone like myself its a comforting feeling having a hundred or so rocs that I have a pretty good idea of how they throw so if I am looking to fill a slot I know I can.

 

[Lurp Nuts]

Isn't the point of the cycle that these discs are constantly changing/evolving? How does one truly get to know a disc when it's, by design, slowly getting more beat in and the flight is changing?

Having a disc fly like a beat in Roc does is 100 percent worth occasionally watching it land 5 feet to the right of where you thought it would. The magic is in the flight, no premium plastic can replicate it.

 

[jakebake91]

Having a disc fly like a beat in Roc does is 100 percent worth occasionally watching it land 5 feet to the right of where you thought it would. The magic is in the flight, no premium plastic can replicate it.

Part of my misconception, I think, is that I imagine the changes happening far less gradually than I am sure is accurate.

I personally (and this is just me) understand the "magic". Either it hits/holds the lines you want, or it doesn't. I can accomplish that with my mids of choice. So can you. We are driving different cars to the same house.

 

[muptonfish]

Thanks for all the responses on cycling, I really like how I can get a DX Roc to fly, I have purchased 2 KC Pros in the past and haven't loved them, more of a grip/feel issue than actual flight. I usually pick up any used Roc's that pop up at my local PIAS and local shop.

 

[SaROCaM]

I greatly enjoy this discussion, when it can be had civilly haha. It's absolutely fascinating to me the difference in theories.

Isn't the point of the cycle that these discs are constantly changing/evolving? How does one truly get to know a disc when it's, by design, slowly getting more beat in and the flight is changing?

My argument, for my bag setup, is that I don't play enough and/or abuse my mids enough to really get a cycle going in reasonable time. I don't want to go try to find a bunch of previously loved discs that are just so, to fill my slots. I have my two main core premium plastic mids that honestly cover all my mid work. I'm also not much of a mid thrower, being more likely to mash a putter or throw a slow fairway.

I can certainly see both sides. To each their own!

Yup, cycling does require more playing, so definitely a consideration between the approaches. I do throw Rocs a lot, so it is naturally easier to cycle them, rather than a more of a forced cycle.

When cycling, you are throwing the discs through their whole life cycle so at any given point, you know where they are at. The change in flight is gradual, not sudden, so you have time to keep them in their slots and you can see it coming when they change enough to move on in the cycle. So for example the Roc in my #2 slot will eventually change to fly like what I want in my #3 slot. Since I am throwing it when it makes that change, I know the exact time to put it in the #3 slot. If my #3 Roc hasn't worn in to the #4 slot, then I now have a backup that I know for sure fits in the #3 slot when needed. Contrast this with a disc I get off the shelf. Until I have thrown it, I don't know for sure that it will fit the slot I got it for. Even then, until I have thrown it in various conditions during a round, I don't know how it will be affected by things like wind. With the cycled disc, I have already seen how it performs in different situations, so I already know from experience what it is like.

But yes, it does require time to develop the cycle, and more playing and getting to know the discs. There are 5 fairway driver molds in my bag that make up 2 functional "cycles" so I do have a mix of the approaches in my bag. Fresh Teebird, seasoned Teebird, beat Teebird, Leopard3 is one "cycle" with 2 molds, while Flat Top Firebird, Firebird, Thunderbird, Thunderbird, Roadrunner is another "cycle" with 3 molds. Kind of a hybrid approach with drivers.

 

[Lurp Nuts]

Part of my misconception, I think, is that I imagine the changes happening far less gradually than I am sure is accurate.

I personally (and this is just me) understand the "magic". Either it hits/holds the lines you want, or it doesn't. I can accomplish that with my mids of choice. So can you. We are driving different cars to the same house.

One cannot accomplish beat-Roc lines without base-plastic Rocs. The entry fee is $7, and you either have it or you don't.

Sure, you're driving another car to the course, but mine is a '64 Jaguar E-Type.

 

[jakebake91]

One cannot accomplish beat-Roc lines without base-plastic Rocs. The entry fee is $7, and you either have it or you don't.

Sure, you're driving another car to the course, but mine is a '64 Jaguar E-Type.

We can agree to disagree.


Chances are, I'm not good enough to hit the line anyways lol

 

[Lurp Nuts]

We can agree to disagree.


Chances are, I'm not good enough to hit the line anyways lol

It's all good, we are in the DX Roc thread, after all.

 

[jakebake91]

It's all good, we are in the DX Roc thread, after all.

And I know my place haha. Like I said above, I just find this conversation fascinating. Why certain people swear by certain methodologies. I love listening to the reasons. Some of us (certainly myself) have some strange reasonings. Not right nor wrong, just different. I'll never try and say I'm right or you're wrong. I will defend my point if I'm flat out told I'm wrong (which no one here has, but it's been stated before). I fully acknowledge there there isn't a correct answer. We all just do our thing.

 

[Horsman]

And I know my place haha. Like I said above, I just find this conversation fascinating. Why certain people swear by certain methodologies. I love listening to the reasons. Some of us (certainly myself) have some strange reasonings. Not right nor wrong, just different. I'll never try and say I'm right or you're wrong. I will defend my point if I'm flat out told I'm wrong (which no one here has, but it's been stated before). I fully acknowledge there there isn't a correct answer. We all just do our thing.

Yea, people being so stuck to their opinions are why I stopped using facebook. You cant have a civil conversation about anything. On here you at least get most people with an open mind who are willing to talk about things instead of argue. Ive dealt with plenty of people on here who are stuck in their ways but they are few and far between.

Now for roc talk. It does and doesnt bother me that kids these days dont know the beauty of the roc mold since you dont see many top level pros using it anymore. Philo would be the biggest in my mind. It saddens me because theres not as much of a market anymore for rocs and we dont get to see the roc get the love from Innova it deserves. But then Im not too disappointed because I feel like I have an advantage in throwing the roc that most people dont have. But I would also probably be just as good with any mid.

 

[SaROCaM]

I have been using an 06' Big Eye for maybe 10 years now. Still my mos overstable roc. Ive tried tons of champ ranchos and a lot of them are overstable but most are too domey or the champ blend just isnt right. I have yet to get my hands on a 4x Glow since I dont want to pay the price but I have heard that last years iDyes came out pretty overstable and since feeling but have yet to find one at a decent price. I like my rocs to have just a mild done to them and most recent runs of ranchos are just too domey.

That '06 Big Eye is a good one from what I've always heard. IIRC that's what Philo bagged for a while. I never got one of those; oldest I have is '07. Was actually thinking about the 4x Glow but that's a pricey disc for sure. Of the recent ones, I remember ones from 2015 being particularly domey. I have a handful of pearly McBeth 2015 USDGC commemorative double stamped ones that have a very mild, almost no dome, actually comparable profile to a Roc3. I like the feel of those but I don't mind a bit more dome.

 

[Horsman]

That '06 Big Eye is a good one from what I've always heard. IIRC that's what Philo bagged for a while. I never got one of those; oldest I have is '07. Was actually thinking about the 4x Glow but that's a pricey disc for sure. Of the recent ones, I remember ones from 2015 being particularly domey. I have a handful of pearly McBeth 2015 USDGC commemorative double stamped ones that have a very mild, almost no dome, actually comparable profile to a Roc3. I like the feel of those but I don't mind a bit more dome.

Yea, Ive always wanted that gator overstability in a roc or at least close to it and Ive just never found it. There are a lot of good overstable rocs out there but no super overstable ones that I have found. Its a pipe dream, just like a Philo tour series DX Roc in some sweet galactic plastic with a cool stamp, or halo DX.

 

[SaROCaM]

Now for roc talk. It does and doesnt bother me that kids these days dont know the beauty of the roc mold since you dont see many top level pros using it anymore. Philo would be the biggest in my mind. It saddens me because theres not as much of a market anymore for rocs and we dont get to see the roc get the love from Innova it deserves. But then Im not too disappointed because I feel like I have an advantage in throwing the roc that most people dont have. But I would also probably be just as good with any mid.

Philo is the biggest one who cycles them; there are others who bag a Roc or 2 and recognize the classic/iconic status of the disc, but they don't lean on them as much as players used to.

I was thinking about this the other day when I saw a Sexton Firebird being bid up around $600, where people were saying stuff like "they only made 5000 of these, and only 50 have this stamp!" Made me think of some USDGC Rocs. "Well, they only made 500 of this particular Roc I have, and only 5 have this stamp. Where's my $600?"

I try to give Rocs to kids and new players. Premie weights when I find them for younger kids, and other lighter weights for beginners. I tell them that the disc gets better the more they throw it.

 

[Horsman]

Philo is the biggest one who cycles them; there are others who bag a Roc or 2 and recognize the classic/iconic status of the disc, but they don't lean on them as much as players used to.

I was thinking about this the other day when I saw a Sexton Firebird being bid up around $600, where people were saying stuff like "they only made 5000 of these, and only 50 have this stamp!" Made me think of some USDGC Rocs. "Well, they only made 500 of this particular Roc I have, and only 5 have this stamp. Where's my $600?"

I try to give Rocs to kids and new players. Premie weights when I find them for younger kids, and other lighter weights for beginners. I tell them that the disc gets better the more they throw it.

Yea the collector market is just crap nowadays. When I was on fb I hated seeing every joe schmoe out there try to sell their extra tourny discs as 1of1 and some limited crap thats no different then any other tournament stamped disc. I really just hate people who are tyring to stretch the truth and be dishonest just to make a buck. Its all too common on the internet and hate that it has made its way into disc golf. DGCR is the place to be for sure.

 

[JuanA]

I know this is the 'DX' Roc thread, but am I the only one who loves XT Rocs?

I hate to create a new thread if it's just going to be me in there.

 

[Horsman]

I know this is the 'DX' Roc thread, but am I the only one who loves XT Rocs?

I hate to create a new thread if it's just going to be me in there.

Too grippy for me but to each their own.

 

[Casey 1988]

Or just carry a premium plastic version of another mold that flies how you want. They exist.....

I'm firmly in the anti-cycle camp. Just my opinion. You guys can hate me all ya want.

I am in the modern cycle thought, use a Premium and then 2-3 not premium for cycling. That or 1 premium and 1 not premium not for cycling but replacing when too US or beat in.