Noobie Question Thread (Dumb Questions answered here)

[kerplunk]

the best way to get better at putting is to stick with one putter for a while and PRACTICE. Get yourself a basket if you are serious. Worth every penny.



The birdie does not suck, nor does the Rattler or any other 'lid' putter. They are great for upshots and not shabby for putting. Let's have a putting contest and I will whip you with my old slow putter

I agree with sticking to one putter, and get 4 of them, or at least 2. And make it an actual putter, the XD or Zone is about the lowest profile I would go with, and even those are shaped more like mids. The larger profile of a "real" putter really does help prevent spit-outs, so the Aviar and Magnet are both good as far as that goes.

One of the best people I know from 45-70 feet is an ODG (original disc golfer) from Durham that uses Super Puppies. A "lid" can be money, especially when you are surrounded by woods so there is almost no wind.

 

[bubbadreier]

Thanks everyone for the advice! I am going to keep the surge in my bag and only carry mids other than the surge and my putters (I think I am going to go with the Aviars since I have two) for the foreseeable future.

 

[Triflusal]

Why dont my Cobras have a patent number or manufacture location on the bottom? They only have the INC. and .COM.

the patent on beveled edged discs has run out, so I don't think that patent numbers really matter anymore.

They also changed the cobra tooling, but you'll have to ask someone who knows about that kinda thing (not me).

 

[The Hammer]

Alright you might say this belongs in the Technique section, but I think it might be better answered here. (And most of the time I am wrong.)

Would my game benefit if I played with a putter only for a month or two, then bring in my mids (classic roc, bottom stamp roc, elite z buzzz, and cryztal buzzz) and play for awhile with both and then much later bring in my slow drivers?

What do you guys think?

That is a good way to start. You can use mids and putters only, or even add a slow driver or two. I wouldn't advocate using anything faster than a Teebird. My experience is that if you want to see some serious gains, you learn to drive (not just putt) with a putter. It will probably be fustrating at first, but once you start to get a feel for it, you will see the light.

Start slowly too. Don't try to throw an Aviar 300' right out of the gate. Start by throwing it 100' to the basket. Once you get comfortable with that, move out a bit. Rinse and repeat.

 

[The Hammer]

When I warm up before rounds or tournaments, I grab a couple Aviars and play from basket to basket, or tree to tree. Basically just make up a short course and play it out with those Aviars.

 

[Giv'r]

CFR is currently referred to as "Champion" Fund Raiser:

http://www.innovadiscs.com/custom-discs/cfr-program.html

Actually it's "Custom Fund Raiser". It says that right on the page you linked.

"Since Innova can not provide cash sponsorship for every tournament or a cash donation for every charity event or fundraiser, we created the Custom Fund Raiser Program (CFR)."

 

[discjunky]

bump

What doe's it mean? What doe's it do?

 

[steveo69]

every time someone post something on your for sale or trade it bumps your listing to the top. So just means they are bumping there list to the top.

 

[MikePinchico]

This is the bump of bumps:

 

[discjunky]

Thanks steveo 69

 

[bcr123psu]

Actually it's "Custom Fund Raiser". It says that right on the page you linked.

"Since Innova can not provide cash sponsorship for every tournament or a cash donation for every charity event or fundraiser, we created the Custom Fund Raiser Program (CFR)."

I readed that real good. I know words.

I am so smart, S-M-R-T.

:doh:

Mah bad.

 

[jenb]

the patent on beveled edged discs has run out, so I don't think that patent numbers really matter anymore.

They also changed the cobra tooling, but you'll have to ask someone who knows about that kinda thing (not me).

There is a statute in the United States that fines people for "falsely marking" products with patent numbers. Some people convinced some judges that false marking includes failing to stop marking a product with a patent number of an expired patent. Of course, that creates huge problems for a company that produces plastic discs from a mold that has to be approved by a standards org, and that has the patent number built into the mold. Maybe they could sand off the numbers before shipping, or fill in the numbers part of the mold, but IDK.

Anyway, I'm not surprised they would take the opportunity to remove the expired patent number when retooling a mold. But I think, in the long run, everyone expects a Court to say that marking a product with an expired patent number is not false marking, because there's no intent to deceive. It was accurate marking when the mold was developed, and leaving it on newly manufactured products accurately conveys that the product was once protected by the expired patent. In the case of a disc, retooling the mold to eliminate the patent number would make it a different product in the eyes of most players (i.e., the mold is everything), so leaving it is just necessary in order to continue to manfacture that particular disc.

Additionally, I read that a judge recently held the whole "false marking" statute unconstitutional, and I guess we will have to see how that pans out on appeal.

 

[Chris A.]

There is a statute in the United States ........... have to see how that pans out on appeal.

Are we a patent lawyer?
Good info there JenB, thanks! I looked up the patent online and saw it was issued in 86, but no expiration. Also this (on Wiki) "For patents filed prior to June 8, 1995, the term of patent is either 20 years from the earliest claimed filing date or 17 years from the issue date, whichever is longer."

I pick up what your putting down, but why not then just pay the maintenance fee to continue the patent, not like they dont have the money. And then that begs the question, why is it just Cobras?
Thanks again!

 

[jenb]

Maintenance fees have to be paid at 4 years, 8 years, and 12 years, just to keep the patent alive for the full term, which used to be 17 years from issue. After that, you can't pay more fees to keep the patent alive. The US Constitution only empowers Congress to grant patents and copyrights for a limited time, and they could theoretically make it a longer period of time, but they settled on about 15-17 years as the right amount of time for patents.

You can be assured that any patent that starts with the number 4 is now expired. Also, any patents that issued prior to 1995 are either expired or about to expire. Patents under the new term calculation actually get 20 years from filing date, plus patent term adjustment for any undue delay in prosecuting the patent application to issue. The patent isn't enforceable until it issues, so if it takes 5 years to get the patent issued, then you only get a maximum or 15 years of term, unless there was undue delay.

Undue delay is when the delay was not the patentee's fault, but was the fault of the patent office. So if the art unit is backlogged, and they don't issue the next Office action in time, then undue delay occurs, and patent term adjustment begins to accumulate. Similarly, if the patentee appeals to the Board of Patent Appeals and Interferences, and it sits in the queue for several years waiting to be heard, and the BPAI overrules the Examiner and the patent issues, then all of that time it sat in the queue, minus six months, gets added on to the patent term. The same occurs if the applicant appeals to the federal circuit and waits years more.

As a result of all of these adjustments, it has become much more difficult to determine the actual patent term. The amount of patent term adjustment is supposed to be printed on the front of the patent, so that helps, but it's not always right, and it really only tells you the maximum amount of term. You still have to look up and see if the maintenance fees were paid, and there are all kinds of options to claim priority from other applications, which can change the effective filing date from the one listed on the patent, and toll the start of the term at that earlier date. Additionally, there could have been a terminal disclaimer filed in the application to disclaim part of the patent term to overcome a double patenting rejection where the Patent Examiner says that your patent's claims are too similar to those in one of your earlier patents.

So it's possible that patents could be expired and you can't tell without doing some research. It can be difficult for patentees to figure out their own patent terms. There was an example recently where the patentee spent a fortune getting a patent with appeals and such, and then paid the issue fee when they finally got an allowance, but it turned out their patent only had a term of about 12 days due to some complicated issues.

Here's the best part:

This is Not Legal Advice
I Am Not Your Lawyer

 

[Isobar]

Just to kind of add to what Jen was saying about retooling the molds used for making the discs. I don't deal with disc manufacturing, but I do deal with a lot of plastic and foam molding tools, and while I don't directly deal with the pricing of them, I do know that just to modify a single tool/mold for what I do can cost anywhere from $10,000 to $100,000. That's a lot of money to spend just to erase the patent number off of a disc. Granted, I believe you could modify the tool by just grinding the serial number off of the tool itself, but then you're looking at possibly affecting the disc's flight characteristics if you don't get it perfect.

 

[jenb]

Just to kind of add to what Jen was saying about retooling the molds used for making the discs. I don't deal with disc manufacturing, but I do deal with a lot of plastic and foam molding tools, and while I don't directly deal with the pricing of them, I do know that just to modify a single tool/mold for what I do can cost anywhere from $10,000 to $100,000. That's a lot of money to spend just to erase the patent number off of a disc. Granted, I believe you could modify the tool by just grinding the serial number off of the tool itself, but then you're looking at possibly affecting the disc's flight characteristics if you don't get it perfect.

As far as grinding the serial number off the mold, I noticed that the numbers are raised on the plastic, so you'd have to fill them in somehow on the mold, or else grind out a big divot in the mold (which would result in a big raised area on the disc). It doesn't seem to me like it would be possible to just fill in the numbers on the mold, and have the fill portion last through production. The cost effective measure, I think, would be to sand, scrape, and/or melt the numbers off the discs after they come out of the mold, like it's just flash removal.

 

[Chris A.]

Thanks guys, lots of good stuff there and I appreciate you taking the time to type it out. Whats that saying...the more I learn the less I know? Anyway, thanks!
-Chris

 

[U_NICED_ME]

Why can't I get any speed or distance on my putts? I am a spin putter, but I never bang the chains or hit the basket hard like I see so many good players doing.

 

[jenb]

I know, right? I can't believe how fast the pros are. I've been trying to develop that fast putt lately and it's hard to do. Is it age?

 

[Triflusal]

Why can't I get any speed or distance on my putts? I am a spin putter, but I never bang the chains or hit the basket hard like I see so many good players doing.

You probably aren't shifting your weight enough or at all. This is where a lot of power comes from when you putt.



I believe Feldberg (or Cam Todd) talks about shifting weight in this video, but I can't remember. It applies to spin putting too.