[Innova] The Innova Disc Real Armspeed Real Performance Riddle

[optidiscic]

Why is throwing a straight it's "flight potential" and there is no diagram on how hard it is to throw a disc straight b/c not all discs are meant to go straight. Your largest flaw is assuming that each disc's ideal flight is straight with no fade which is not true. The flight path charts Innova has on their sites show the intended or "ideal" flight each disc will have when throw correctly and (i assume) new. You will notice that hardly any have a perfectly straight flight.

totally agree with you
I completely agree with this but to many who cant ever aspire to throwing a disc at the intended speed to perform its full flight characteristics a disc will underperform

However many very good players will throw a Katana...(for instance)...underspeed and low to the ground and it will fly straight as an arrow rather than turn dramatically and fade back hard like it would given enough air to work and with the prescribed power

Many will also throw a sidewinder uphill and gravity will slow it down or throw it with the wind which slows it down and it will fly straight
Many will throw a firebird into the wind or downhill and it is sped up and flies straight due to it being thrown beyond speed 9.

Maybe a better way to ask the question would be to ask at what speed would a sidewinder fly straight?....probably at a speed 6 in innova terms?
What speed would a firebird fly straight?...perhaps at a speed 12 in innova terms?
I posed the ranking as a fun way to see what people thought
I really respect both of your opinions and am trying to explain it but I think I'm losing translation online

I never said the desired performance of a disc is straight....not sure where that came from

 

[Frank Delicious]

Sorry if I misunderstood but your obsession with finding out what speed a disc could be thrown straight and some of your answers seem to indicate you thought straight was the idea flight.

What do we gain from figuring out what speed a firebird can be thrown straight? I am not seeing the benefit here.

 

[garublador]

Garu
can you throw a firebird straight
can you throw a sidewinder straight
which requires more zip to do so
fill in all discs by this measure
post

I can throw any disc straight, I just drop it down. It requires zero power to do that, therefore they all require the same "arm speed" (which is a horrible term and useless way to judge how discs fly.)

My point is that if you just want straight all you need to do is throw low enough so that the disc hits the ground before it fades. Anyone can do that with minimal power. It's not a useful way to judge discs.

 

[optidiscic]

I guess many struggle with the question should I disc up based on stability but remain the same speed or should I disc up in speed but remain at the same stability

I think it would benefit newcomers to the game if this info was arranged this way
I also thought it would be an interesting and fun exercise (apparently some people got it)
I am not sure about where many fall in the middle and thought it might help me with disc making decisions on a course (I usually slightly turn over my beast in this kind of wind here should I go Orc or Wraith)
basically its for fun and I was curious....I fiond it curious how the Katana seems to show up all over the rankings thus far

 

[optidiscic]

I can throw any disc straight, I just drop it down. It requires zero power to do that, therefore they all require the same "arm speed" (which is a horrible term and useless way to judge how discs fly.)

My point is that if you just want straight all you need to do is throw low enough so that the disc hits the ground before it fades. Anyone can do that with minimal power. It's not a useful way to judge discs.

I was gonna imply some made up distance 250 ft or something (probably make it more confusing) but decided most would get what I was getting at.

I know the key is to throw low enough to prevent fade...I was more looking to see flight characteristics and at what speeds disc fly the straightest....be it wind gravity or arm generated speed.

 

[Frank Delicious]

I guess many struggle with the question should I disc up based on stability but remain the same speed or should I disc up in speed but remain at the same stability

This is pretty situational and I don't know how this exercise would help answer this question. There are a decent amount of factors a person needs to consider when thinking something like this through and "at what speed disc a disc fly straightest" isn't high up on that list when I personally evaluate this question.

 

[optidiscic]

This is pretty situational and I don't know how this exercise would help answer this question. There are a decent amount of factors a person needs to consider when thinking something like this through and "at what speed disc a disc fly straightest" isn't high up on that list when I personally evaluate this question.

very true...nothing is black and white but understanding has to start somewhere....so Frank your not gonna try to cut n paste a list are you?

 

[garublador]

I guess many struggle with the question should I disc up based on stability but remain the same speed or should I disc up in speed but remain at the same stability

I promote building your bag in a way that makes this question easy to answer. If you're in a situation where it's a tough decision then you either need to work on shot/disc selection (just pick one and see how it goes) or it really doesn't matter which one you pick.

 

[optidiscic]

thanks for playing and stamping out any joy I may have been having

 

[Frank Delicious]

very true...nothing is black and white but understanding has to start somewhere....so Frank your not gonna try to cut n paste a list are you?

I am not but I am interested in figuring out a better thought experiment.

 

[optidiscic]

I am not but I am interested in figuring out a better thought experiment.

how about you try to start such a thread...INNOVA Based and I will gladly give it my best shot :thmbup:

 

[Frank Delicious]

What is the goal we are trying to achieve through this thought experiment? I am still not 100% certain.

 

[optidiscic]

What is the goal we are trying to achieve through this thought experiment? I am still not 100% certain.

fun and knowledge

 

[Pro Destroyer]

I think what optidisc is really after here is How much effort is needed to get each disc to its speed rating when thrown level........or something like that

 

[Frank Delicious]

fun and knowledge

oooooookay, how about we narrow it down to a real goal we are trying to achieve.

 

[The Hammer]

fun and knowledge

I have been following this thread and can assure everyone that there is little of either here.

 

[Texconsinite]

Assuming all weights are equal and all discs are brand new Star Plastic place these discs in the order of arm speed required to promote an absolute straight flight. No high speed turn and no meathook fade.

Excalibur
Monster
Boss
Destroyer
Tee Rex
Katana
Firebird
Wraith
Orc
Beast
Valkyrie
Sidewinder
Eagle
Tee Bird
Leopard



The problem with the question is that "perfectly straight flight" is a finnicky term. Some of these discs are going to have a meathook fade at the end, even if they fly perfectly straight for 90% of their flight, just based on their nature. Particularly the big boys like Excalibur and Monster.

Since some of these discs are not designed to follow a straight line, power is not the issue there.

 

[KMaC]

Yeah, you just have to throw it low enough to hit the ground before it fades. For many of those discs you have to limit how far they go by throwing them super low to get a straight flight with no fade.

That makes sense, now I'm just confused as to why anyone would care.

 

[optidiscic]

Pile on

 

[optidiscic]

I think what optidisc is really after here is How much effort is needed to get each disc to perform a straight line with zero turn and minimal fade when thrown level........or something like that

fixed

many get it but for some reason some can't seem to figure it out and Feel compelled to prove their Internet dominance