Lol.
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[Gateway] Wizard Weights
- Thread starter LastPlace
- Start date
^ this.
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
Responsibility for throwing discs in the approved weight range has always been on the player. If discs are known to be overweight, they should not be thrown in competition and ideally returned to the retailer or manufacturer for replacement. If a manufacturer or retailer is selling discs marked with weights higher than legal, you should also report it to PDGA Tech Standards.
God I hope no one does this. For serious. This has been going on for 13-14 years now; it's a little late for somebody to decide to do something about it now.
Im going to go scale all the max wt discs at gggt.
See you guys next year!
See you guys next year!
Lol just grabbed this off the shelf:
The double stamp prolly put it over...:|
Aaannnddd THIS...is why I never weigh my discs. If I don't weigh it, I don't know if it's overweight. Plausible deniability.
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2012
- Messages
- 2,861
No wonder my triple stamped mako3 isn't affected by wind. Thing is so heavy, it makes my arm sore just carrying it.
Just because no one has personally called you out for throwing an illegal 177 gram Star Boss, does not mean Gateway can't be called out for purposely producing thousands of overweight discs. The Tech Standards don't say: "If Innova produces an overweight disc, Gateway is now allowed to produce overweight discs". The rules don't state: "If the TD does not weigh discs, it is OK for players to throw overweight discs".
Did you mean to say Heresy or Hearsay?
It is not "hearsay" when the Gateway website clearly states Wizards and Magics are available at 175 grams (although some might consider it heresy).
http://www.gdstour.com/disc-golf-discs/putt-and-approach/wizard/
http://www.gdstour.com/disc-golf-discs/putt-and-approach/magic/
Screenshots anyone?
I did mean hearsay - thanks for the spelling correction.
I just recently started working here, and yes I know the reputation this company has. I am from the St. Louis area and I love this city. I have been playing disc sports for many years now and they have consumed my life to the point where I left the career I went to school for to try to further the sport in my hometown. It is my dream to see this company grow along with the sport, and see a major tournament grow in St. Louis. I am not trying to say Gateway isn't guilty of mismarking, but it seems to me like we get called out more than any other company for any mistakes. I just wanted to give an example of how we are not the only ones that have made this particular mistake, and that it is all too common across the board.
Other than that, what's wrong with a slightly overweight disc other than that the pdf from the PDGA says it's illegal? Is there anything that gives a competitive advantage? Is it a danger to other players? I think the whole idea of what the standards should be and how they are applied is what really should be discussed.
We are sending in Wizards and Voodoos for re-approval. Thanks guys!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oo8g1IVY_dU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oo8g1IVY_dU
I want to reiterate. My intentions were not to call out Gateway over Innova or any other brand for mismarking discs. I don't know everything that goes into the process. I'm sure it's not a perfect process and that's fine. I'm sure Innova has discs mismarked all the time. The issue, at least for me, is labeling them at 175, because it almost says you just don't care, since the PDGA says 174.3 is the limit.
I'm not going to go weigh all my discs to see if they match what's written on them. It would be silly, and my opinion would be silly to do for tournament play. I don't think a few extra grams gives much advantage. But if it says 175 then I already know it illegal. If it says 174 then I'm assuming it is legal.
Every company makes discs that are over max weight and marks them max weight. But if 174 is your current max weight, then the target weight should be 174 and not 175. Just like if their max weight is 175, then their target should be 175 and not 176. If the Wizards were never marked 175, I would have never noticed anything.
I appreciate you guys sending them back for retesting. Why haven't you before? Just curious.
Also on a side note, that pwp plastic is killer. Keep making them!
I have been trying to get Dave to do this since I started working here 6 months ago. It's just kind of a hassle.
When no one checks disc weights at events, why would want to send the same disc and money to the PDGA to get some numbers changed on a pdf? Once a mold is approved, shouldn't the rule just be that the density is < 8.3 g/cm? I think it only makes sense.
We should be running PWP again soon. We want to wait until the weather cools and humidity is low.
tbird888
Salient Disc Test Team
Because it's not "just a PDF". It's the equipment manufacturing standards for use in sanctioned events. No matter how little people choose to acknowledge and follow it, the Constitution is more than just a piece of paper.
If you want a company other than Gateway to be exposed for illegal products, stop pointing fingers and start sending discs you believe to be illegal to the PDGA to be tested or fix the issue with your products directly so you stop being the example. It's about damn time Dave sent discs Wizards back in to have the standards changed.
Hey remember when INNOVA ran those super stiff Firebirds that never would have passed the flex test?
Or how about McPro/KC Pro? My putters would snap in half before flexing enough.
INNOVA has been knowingly producing/selling those discs for some time now.
Funny how that works.
That's just the thing...
The discs still meet the standards if you look at it based on the formula provided by the PDGA:
Disc Weight < Disc Diameter (cm) * 8.3 g/cm
Isn't this all that should matter? They approved the mold, it's just that the discs Dave sent 13 years ago shrank to a smaller diameter.
rakamkram
Eagle Member
I'm no expert on knowing exactly what an illegal flex disc feels like, but I'm pretty sure the Zero Hard/BT Hard discs that I've tried recently wouldn't pass the flex test either.
tbird888
Salient Disc Test Team
Again, you can't just say that your discs are actually legal. If the specifications of your molds don't fit the standards that have been established for your discs to be approved for sanctioned play anymore, then you need to have those specifications updated.
This is independent of how many other companies violate the policy. If they jump off a bridge, are you going to follow? Don't want to be the example? Fix your approval specs so you can't be the example anymore. No one complained more about the G9i debacle than I did (still my favorite blend of plastic you guys have created). Go back and read the topic if you don't believe me. That doesn't mean bupkis because your discs were too stiff for tourney play, no matter how many other companies are doing the same thing. Stop looking in other peoples' bowls and fix your own.
This is independent of how many other companies violate the policy. If they jump off a bridge, are you going to follow? Don't want to be the example? Fix your approval specs so you can't be the example anymore. No one complained more about the G9i debacle than I did (still my favorite blend of plastic you guys have created). Go back and read the topic if you don't believe me. That doesn't mean bupkis because your discs were too stiff for tourney play, no matter how many other companies are doing the same thing. Stop looking in other peoples' bowls and fix your own.
tbird888
Salient Disc Test Team
If you guys are really that upset about other companies skirting the rules, send discs you believe to be illegal to the PDGA and lodge a complaint.
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