Wysoki vs. McBeth

[SD86]

I noticed at worlds Mcbeth did the same for Wysocki. On one drive Ricky went past the hole into the woods. Mcbeth came over and checked the lie while Ricky set up, nobody else did. I think it was late in the second to last round and Ricky missed the putt, he was close but had to putt overhand and it chained out for reference

Part of the observation for me is how Wysocki was jawing about it when Paul called him on a rule or OB location. In this most recent altercation, the rest of the card was soundly with McBeth on the OB issue, but Ricky (complained) about it and there was some back and forth jawing, so I understand. And of course we know that words were exchanged after "Sharpie-gate" at Worlds.

So I'm not saying anyone is deliberately cheating, but Ricky apparently gets mentally heated when he's called out for for something, for right or for wrong. And that leads to what Calvin & Hobbes would call a "philosophical discussion"...

 

[onemilemore]

Part of the observation for me is how Wysocki was jawing about it when Paul called him on a rule or OB location. In this most recent altercation, the rest of the card was soundly with McBeth on the OB issue, but Ricky (complained) about it and there was some back and forth jawing, so I understand. And of course we know that words were exchanged after "Sharpie-gate" at Worlds.

So I'm not saying anyone is deliberately cheating, but Ricky apparently gets mentally heated when he's called out for for something, for right or for wrong. And that leads to what Calvin & Hobbes would call a "philosophical discussion"...

Relevant quote from Wysocki in this article from Worlds: "I don't care, just the way Paul handled it – I just don't like the way he handles stuff, he does that kind of crap all the time and it's annoying."

 

[wims]

It seems like Paul likes to call out his strongest opponents to get in their heads, kind of like what he did with calling Simon's foot fault in Australia.

 

[DirtyMeathook]

I think what I have come away with from this season is this: McBeth's highs this year have been higher, but his lows have been lower. Wysocki, on the other hand, has just been kind of consistently chugging along, winning, but not blowing people out of the water like McBeth. It all looks the same on paper, but different to the eye.

Going into Worlds the talk was that Wysocki was clearly having a better year, but if Paul managed to win Worlds it would draw their season resumes close together. Well, he didn't. Ricky did; the guy who was already well ahead of him on every one of the tours. Yet somehow, Paul wins 2 events, albeit by a lot, and all of a sudden guys like YOU (jk, I enjoy going back and forth with yah) want to say Paul has had just as good of a season. Just look at the results! Ricky has outperformed him on all 14 of the tours! #McBethbias

 

[teemkey]

At big purse tournaments, a couple of throws can make a difference of $1000 or more. That explains a lot, don't you think?

 

[SD86]

Going into Worlds the talk was that Wysocki was clearly having a better year, but if Paul managed to win Worlds it would draw their season resumes close together. Well, he didn't. Ricky did; the guy who was already well ahead of him on every one of the tours. Yet somehow, Paul wins 2 events, albeit by a lot, and all of a sudden guys like YOU (jk, I enjoy going back and forth with yah) want to say Paul has had just as good of a season. Just look at the results! Ricky has outperformed him on all 14 of the tours! #McBethbias

Ricky's had the better 2016, no doubt about it.

Who is the better player... ahh, the fun of debating that... opcorn:

 

[onemilemore]

Going into Worlds the talk was that Wysocki was clearly having a better year, but if Paul managed to win Worlds it would draw their season resumes close together. Well, he didn't. Ricky did; the guy who was already well ahead of him on every one of the tours. Yet somehow, Paul wins 2 events, albeit by a lot, and all of a sudden guys like YOU (jk, I enjoy going back and forth with yah) want to say Paul has had just as good of a season. Just look at the results! Ricky has outperformed him on all 14 of the tours! #McBethbias

You gotta listen to our pod from today. We had a very similar debate to this, and I still give it to Ricky right now. Let's talk after Green Mountain and USDGC.

 

[ToddL]

All Tournaments  Tier     McBeth   Wysocki
2/20 Wintertime   B         1         
3/2 Memorial      NT        1        6
3/10 La Mirada    A  DGWT   1        2
3/18 St Patrick   A                  1
3/26 PureLine     C                  2
4/2 Mishawaka     A                  1
4/9 Jacksonville  A                  1
4/22 Nick Hyde    A         2         
4/28 Glass Blown  NT        2        2
5/5 Konopiste     A  DGWT   2         
5/6 Kansas City   NT                 1
5/20 Steady Ed    NT        2        1
5/27 St Jude      A                  1
6/2 Euro Open     A  DGWT   1        2
6/10 Beaver       NT        3        1
6/23 Vibram       NT DGPT  12        4
7/1 Delaware      A                  2
7/8 Silver Cup    A  DGPT            1
7/15 Estonian     A                  1
7/21 Euro Mst     M  DGWT   2        1
7/29 Majestic     A  DGPT  12        1
8/6 Worlds        M         2        1
8/18 Ledgestone   A  DGPT   1       12
8/26 Hambrick     NT        1        2

National Tour    Tier     McBeth   Wysocki
3/2 Memorial      NT        1        6
4/28 Glass Blown  NT        2        2
5/6 Kansas City   NT                 1
5/20 Steady Ed    NT        2        1
6/10 Beaver       NT        3        1
6/23 Vibram       NT       12        4
8/26 Hambrick     NT        1        2

Major            Tier     McBeth   Wysocki
7/21 Euro Mst     M  DGWT   2        1
8/6 Worlds        M         2        1

DG World Tour    Tier     McBeth   Wysocki
3/10 La Mirada   DGWT       1        2
5/5 Konopiste    DGWT       2         
6/2 Euro Open    DGWT       1        2
7/21 Euro Mst    DGWT       2        1

DG Pro Tour      Tier     McBeth   Wysocki
6/23 Vibram      DGPT      12        4
7/8 Silver Cup   DGPT                1
7/29 Majestic    DGPT      12        1
8/18 Ledgestone  DGPT       1       12

A Tiers          Tier     McBeth   Wysocki
3/10 La Mirada    A         1        2
3/18 St Patrick   A                  1
4/2 Mishawaka     A                  1
4/9 Jacksonville  A                  1
4/22 Nick Hyde    A         2         
5/5 Konopiste     A         2         
5/27 St Jude      A                  1
6/2 Euro Open     A         1        2
7/1 Delaware      A                  2
7/8 Silver Cup    A                  1
7/15 Estonian     A                  1
7/29 Majestic     A        12        1

 

[sidewinder22]

 

[Ender175]

One thing that was really interesting to me is that if you look at their stats on UDisc, they are almost indistinguishable.

The only stat where a real difference is noticeable is scrambling %, were Ricky is very high and Paul is in the middle. I know it can be quite this simple, but is Ricky winning because he's better at getting out of trouble this year?

Our sample size is too small to say that definitively, but it's something to look at after seasons end.

the problem with the udisc scramble start is the way it handles OB strokes. McBeth has more of a high risk/high reward style off the tee, and that results in more OB tee shots. Since a successful scramble is saving par when you don't hit the green in regulation, the penalty stroke causes the hole to count as a failed scramble, even if you get up and down from the drop.

 

[LukeButch]

It seems like Paul likes to call out his strongest opponents to get in their heads, kind of like what he did with calling Simon's foot fault in Australia.

I guarantee you Paul is not purposely trying to do this. Thats just not who he is. However if he sees something that he feels is wrong, or a rules violation he will say something. Many top pros have gotten away with ALOT over the years because people "dont want to be a dick" and disagree with them

 

[F.Luke]

I guarantee you Paul is not purposely trying to do this. Thats just not who he is. However if he sees something that he feels is wrong, or a rules violation he will say something. Many top pros have gotten away with ALOT over the years because people "dont want to be a dick" and disagree with them

Exactly. Its called being professional. Doing the right thing regardless of how it looks to others.

 

[corin_brown]

I guarantee you Paul is not purposely trying to do this. Thats just not who he is. However if he sees something that he feels is wrong, or a rules violation he will say something. Many top pros have gotten away with ALOT over the years because people "dont want to be a dick" and disagree with them

Exactly. Its called being professional. Doing the right thing regardless of how it looks to others.

LukeButch. F.Luke. Any relation? Nevermind...

As for the rules, McBeth expressed his views on rules enforcement directly on Smashboxx last night. Basically, he wants the rules enforced, that's it.

If he happens to get an edge on ANY other player because that player gets bothered when having the rules enforced against them, I'm sure McBeth wouldn't lose too much sleep over it.

These guys are professionals. I'm pretty sure McBeth and Rick don't spend too much free time together, but I'm sure that's not because there's any personal animus between them. It's because they're professional competitors who don't happen to be close friends. It happens.

They're cordial, they're professional and when they compete, they get after each other like hell. We should all be grateful for that and hope it lasts a long time. This season has been pretty fun.

 

[lyleoross]

I guarantee you Paul is not purposely trying to do this. Thats just not who he is. However if he sees something that he feels is wrong, or a rules violation he will say something. Many top pros have gotten away with ALOT over the years because people "dont want to be a dick" and disagree with them

True, but also, part of the game is playing within the rules, the notion that Paul is going after someone or anyone because he expects them to play by the rules is ridiculous. If a player makes the effort to know the rules and to obey them fully, it is in his best interests to hold the rest of the field to that standard. Otherwise, he's playing from a disadvantage. If other players can't stay within the rules and allow themselves to get upset when he asks them to, that's on them. Queue the conspiracies on all the times when Paul has broken the rules.

 

[SD86]

I guarantee you Paul is not purposely trying to do this. Thats just not who he is. However if he sees something that he feels is wrong, or a rules violation he will say something. Many top pros have gotten away with ALOT over the years because people "dont want to be a dick" and disagree with them

Exactly my thoughts. Paul enforces the rules. Ricky Wysocki seems to have a problem with that, at least when Paul does it.

In my quarter century of being a chess tournament director, I've seen a lot. Somebody gets a rule called on him, like touching a piece so he has to move it, they don't like it. There was a guy "A" in a tournament once who had an opponent "B" call the touch move rule on him. "A" then went around harassing "B" afterwards, openly rooting for "B"'s other opponents. "B" finally had enough and called "A" out, and invited "A" to take it outside to settle it.

I'll make observations for the flip side of this if events warrant...

 

[lyleoross]

BTW, CA gained a big chunk of kudos for turning herself in when she thought she had broken the rules; now who else did that?

 

[air show]

I know this about Paul from watching him live. He is always involved in any OB spot and hangs close to check for any funny business. Anyway Ricky and the rest of the field had better up their game or otherwise compete for silver. I just hope Ricky can find his game so we can have a great ending to the 2016 season.

 

[teemkey]

Uli mentioned on Smashboxx that McBeth was the only player helping Sarah find her disc during the final nine. You could say he's by the book, good or bad.

 

[onemilemore]

McBeth stands to benefit more than anyone else if disc golf makes it to the mainstream, and it's clear he feels the way for it to do that is to present itself as professionally as possible.

 

[Flick Maniac]

True, but also, part of the game is playing within the rules, the notion that Paul is going after someone or anyone because he expects them to play by the rules is ridiculous. If a player makes the effort to know the rules and to obey them fully, it is in his best interests to hold the rest of the field to that standard. Otherwise, he's playing from a disadvantage. If other players can't stay within the rules and allow themselves to get upset when he asks them to, that's on them. Queue the conspiracies on all the times when Paul has broken the rules.

^^ THIS. and all the previous chain of quotes. it is not "crap" as Ricky chose to describe it in the interview.