Nikko LoCastro intimidating a PDGA official at European Open '22

[biscoe]

Class A offense carries a 24 month suspension. I'm not sure how this offense is not going fall under any other category of offense per the disciplinary committee. If he doesn't get two years then something is fishy.

With this high profile of a player I'm baffled it's taking this long to make a decision on his punishment.

There is a process to be gone through. I would be surprised if it takes much less than a month.

 

[biscoe]

On the subject of suspensions and precedent:
- Why did Bradley Williams get suspended/on probation the first time?
- Has Nikko actually ever been officially reviewed by the PDGA for discipline on courtesy issues? I know he has a reputation as fiery, etc. but has it actually come out on the course in a manner that might have warranted discipline in the past?
- Now that the heat of the moment is over, does anyone actually think he is subject to discipline for "stalking"? IMO that is a term related to searching for and finding someone after the round is over. Things like showing up at their house, continually popping up in public places where they are, that kind of thing. Not walking up to them on the hole you are playing.

Yes, this was completely unwarranted and unacceptable behavior. But, in my mind, it doesn't warrant a suspension unless he has previously engaged in behavior that would potentially warrant a suspension. But, I'm also not exactly sure what the rules say specifically about these things and whether it is all completely discretionary.

Williams had a looong history prior to that incident. He would have gotten 2 years had the current policies been in place.

 

[dmoore1998]

There is a process to be gone through. I would be surprised if it takes much less than a month.

That's kind of what I was thinking. This isn't a big professional sports league where everyone involved is working full-time in that building and can just schedule some regular meetings. I imagine it takes a little time/email/communication to get everyone involved who needs to be involved.

 

[Dcinmd]

-Nikko's comment on the Bradley Williams suspension from the article that Bogey linked above

opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:

Might as well include this as well. Due to his stance the Disciplinary Committee has added Offense class to each suspension.

Paul McBeth took an even more stringent stance, announcing on Saturday night that he would not participate in any non-major PDGA-sanctioned events until the PDGA releases a statement about its discipline of Williams.

"In no way am I condoning misconduct on the course," McBeth said. "The issue I have is when a rule is broken or a mistake is made and our governing body issues a punishment but provides no explanation to its professional members. My security as a player feels threatened. This is my livelihood, as well as many others, and we shouldn't have to wonder what may happen if we ever make a mistake."

Interesting enough there was one member serving 10 year suspension and lifetime probation for a class A offense and another member serving a 3 year probation and a 5 year probation for a class B offense.

It seems the Disciplinary committee has quietly been busy behind the scene since the Bradley Williams incident without much notice till the Nikko incident. I only notice since someone I know recently got suspended.

And that is not to say any punishments that have been levied have not been deserved.

https://www.pdga.com/files/current_disciplinary_actions_07-19-2022_1.pdf

 

[txmxer]

Might as well include this as well. Due to his stance the Disciplinary Committee has added Offense class to each suspension.



Interesting enough there was one member serving 10 year suspension and lifetime probation for a class A offense and another member serving a 3 year probation and a 5 year probation for a class B offense.

It seems the Disciplinary committee has quietly been busy behind the scene since the Bradley Williams incident without much notice till the Nikko incident. I only notice since someone I know recently got suspended.

And that is not to say any punishments that have been levied have not been deserved.

https://www.pdga.com/files/current_disciplinary_actions_07-19-2022_1.pdf

Don't hold out...what did this person you know do to earn a suspension???

 

[Brodysseus]

Don't hold out...what did this person you know do to earn a suspension???

They didn't step away.

 

[ballgolfconvert]

We want to stick around to witness that magical moment when someone first realizes that admitting they were wrong - and are therefore now right - is a much easier and more satisfying path than trying to feel right by getting everyone else to be wrong in the same way.

It doesn't happen often, and witnessing the sense of awareness and relief that floods over the person as a result of that revelation is a beautiful thing, so we don't want to miss it.

i'm actually pointing out the aspects that likely caused such a large overreaction by Nikko. Most of these involve rules that aren't written for the professional game and in their current form can be considered arbitrary and unfair to players. It's also why I think Nikko should get a lighter penalty than otherwise may be appropriate. Fix the rules and this type of thing doesn't happen. Just facts Steve.

 

[Hampstead]

JFC.

 

[GMcAtee]

Might as well include this as well. Due to his stance the Disciplinary Committee has added Offense class to each suspension.



Interesting enough there was one member serving 10 year suspension and lifetime probation for a class A offense and another member serving a 3 year probation and a 5 year probation for a class B offense.

It seems the Disciplinary committee has quietly been busy behind the scene since the Bradley Williams incident without much notice till the Nikko incident. I only notice since someone I know recently got suspended.

And that is not to say any punishments that have been levied have not been deserved.

https://www.pdga.com/files/current_disciplinary_actions_07-19-2022_1.pdf

I recognize too many names on this list. Not sure what some of them did, but I had to notify Russ Corey he was on this list when he was playing my league. Chip Strain and Deke Havener - tourney fees? Most of us know the Doc Turner story. What did Charlie Cavalier and Robert Eberenz do to get such lengthy suspensions?

 

[ballgolfconvert]

Ugh, totally forgot that caveat in the rule! If the warning is deemed 'off' by BGC, the subsequent penalty cannot be applied.

Man I need to brush up on these rules.

You all obviously miss the gist of everything i am saying. hate can indeed be blinding. What I am saying is that rules should be formatted so that this penalty cannot be applied like this is the future. My post have shown justification to make these changes and to make aware that shortcomings in the rules is what led to this situation.

 

[dmoore1998]

You all obviously miss the gist of everything i am saying. hate can indeed be blinding. What I am saying is that rules should be formatted so that this penalty cannot be applied like this is the future. My post have shown justification to make these changes and to make aware that shortcomings in the rules is what led to this situation.

So that it can't be applied in what way? The way that's the absolutely least impactful way to a player to allow him the smallest possible penalty without messing with his round?

You're advocating that he should have been punished more harshly? Like having a penalty added for every throw he made over 30 seconds?

 

[ballgolfconvert]

So that it can't be applied in what way? The way that's the absolutely least impactful way to a player to allow him the smallest possible penalty without messing with his round?

You're advocating that he should have been punished more harshly? Like having a penalty added for every throw he made over 30 seconds?

Not at all. Once the warning was given by the players, they should have kept timing him and applied any penalties. if they failed to keep timing him, the warning status should have been lifted at the time they stopped timing him.

 

[dmoore1998]

Not at all. Once the warning was given by the players, they should have kept timing him and applied any penalties. if they failed to keep timing him, the warning status should have been lifted at the time they stopped timing him.

You don't seem to understand the players weren't even the ones timing him. Do you actually have any idea what happened? You seem very confused about the entire order of events.

 

[ballgolfconvert]

You don't seem to understand the players weren't even the ones timing him. Do you actually have any idea what happened? You seem very confused about the entire order of events.

i fully realize that. if you put a player on warning and then fail to follow up with timing them, are they still on warning? I don't think so. if a player is not on warning, does not a new warning have to be given before he can be penalized?

 

[dmoore1998]

i fully realize that. if you put a player on warning and then fail to follow up with timing them, are they still on warning? I don't think so. if a player is not on warning, does not a new warning have to be given before he can be penalized?

Yes, they are on warning for the remainder of that round.

I'm not sure why you're saying "fail to follow up with timing them"...where are you getting that officials did not continue to time players on that card? Because they did.

 

[RowingBoats]

i fully realize that. if you put a player on warning and then fail to follow up with timing them, are they still on warning? I don't think so. if a player is not on warning, does not a new warning have to be given before he can be penalized?

Seriously, where are you getting this concept from? Are you just so bad at using words that you switch between objective and subjective statements without realizing it?

The rule is that the warning sticks for the round. What part of the rule are you reading that shows the warning decays under any other circumstances during a round?

 

[Brockness Monster]

I feel like I'm in an episode of "What we do in the shadows" and Colin Robinson is just grinning with his glowing eyes opcorn:

 

[BillFleming]

Not at all. Once the warning was given by the players, they should have kept timing him and applied any penalties. if they failed to keep timing him, the warning status should have been lifted at the time they stopped timing him.

A warning is for the entire round. How do you know they didn't keep timing him? Were you there? It's not always possible to have two players time a third every throw. So it's possible they timed him when they could and if he saw them timing him he played faster. It's also possible the other player(s) asked the tournament official to time Nikko as an unbiased third-party.

There's a lot of possibilities about what happened. But it doesn't matter...Nikko didn't follow the rules. But that's NOT why he was DQ'd.

 

[Steve West]

i fully realize that. if you put a player on warning and then fail to follow up with timing them, are they still on warning? I don't think so. if a player is not on warning, does not a new warning have to be given before he can be penalized?

The player continues to be on warning and no new warning needs to be given.

802.03 Excessive Time
Last updated: Friday, December 31, 2021 - 15:50
[...]
B A player who takes excessive time receives a warning for the first violation. A player who takes excessive time after having been warned for it during the round receives one penalty throw. [...]

Bold added.

What is not in the rule is anything about the other players performing an unbroken string of timing every throw between the warning and the evaluation.

 

[ballgolfconvert]

Yes, they are on warning for the remainder of that round.

I'm not sure why you're saying "fail to follow up with timing them"...where are you getting that officials did not continue to time players on that card? Because they did.

Because that is part of the rule. if you warn a player for bad times, the onus is on you to time them going forward. if you don't follow through on the next step of the rule, the previous step (warning) should no longer apply.

The official did not step in to time until the 18th hole as far as i know. Are you saying the official was timing Nikko for 11-12 holes and kept doing so even though he got no bad times for 11-12 holes? if that was the case, and i don't believe it was, it makes even a greater argument for Nikko being specifically targeted.