2015 Ledgestone NT presented by Discraft

[DG_Before_Breakfast]

LOL. He actually mentioned it in his victory speech.

So yea... I'd say there was a little bit of motivation from the virtual peanut gallery.

Really? That is awesome. Well, good job, keep the pressure on Simon, cuz I think he'd be a great rival for Paul!

 

[New013]

im disappointed they didnt throw in a windmill on one of those final 9 holes. maybe add in one of those chutes where the disc goes in then pops out below and you have to pray it rolls in the basket.

 

[djschnabel]

im disappointed they didnt throw in a windmill on one of those final 9 holes. maybe add in one of those chutes where the disc goes in then pops out below and you have to pray it rolls in the basket.

 

[araytx]

Watch the Jomez Productions final 9 vid and you can plainly on JohnE's first drive on 17 he hits the spectator that is OUT OF BOUNDS to start with and the dics almost KICKS back in off of the girl it hit.

He will probably feel like a jerk when/if he ever sees what really happened :doh:.

Here is the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34r1gzpSdrM

JohnE's drive starts at 5:55 in the video.

Also his shot thru the bridge was awesome :hfive:. Terry and everybody thought he was going to lay up when he pulled hid putter out of the bag....than BOOM! Too bad he was too pissed to can the short putt for the bird though....

When I got up to JohnEs disc, I asked if it hit anyone and the multiple spectators standing right there stated no that it landed in between a group of four or five. Someone else reported to JohnE's wife later that someone had indeed been hit. I have no idea what actually happened. I wish we had people further back so there would be no question, but unfortunately to JohnE he was convinced that it hit someone and that prevented him from making what might have been a spectacular shot. That definitely affected him for the rest of the final 9. It did not help that on the previous hole JohnE threw long on his first throw and hit a spectator OB (that one had no chance of coming back IB IMO).

There is a reason everyone took smarter lines/shots at that hole while JohnE twice threw a ill-advised routes. Those OB strokes are on him, not a spectator hopping out the way as a disc comes in from behind them while standing OB.

Was JohnE's behavior really that bad? I didn't watch the live stream, the edited video didn't make him look bad. Just playing really fast, which isn't that wierd. He plays almost that fast when he's winning too, and I've seen him go rapid fire on rethrows like that before too.

P, I dont think it was that bad at all. NOT anything like or close to some of Nikko's antics, he was subtlety peeved at minimum.

You could just tell he was upset with himself mostly ( I think, as I am not he) and you could see/feel the "Lets get this STUFF done then I am outta here" vibe he had going on.

He was just "done" and it showed a little bit toward the end, as he racked up a F-this score of 53 in the Final-9!

He also pured his drive thru the trees on the safari hole too ( combo of #4 & #5 ) and put it out with Simons and Pauls shots!

He did smash a long, sweet Turbo putt on hole #7 I think. Saw it live, but the Jomez final 9 does not show it?

So let me try and see if I get this right again. After being one of two birdies on the first hole of the Final Nine, JohnE steps up to a hole clearly designed to be big advantage to those who can throw big distance high hyzers & spikes, and not his strength of laser & flex shots. His tee shot hits a spectator OB (who's sitting on the ground not really watching) on the first throw and it DOES NOT ricochet inbounds. Proceeds to throw OB again and takes a 7 vs everyone else 2's & 3's. Then on the next hole after everyone is in safe off the tee and the other competitors throw layup safe on the second shot, JohnE thinking he's now got strokes to make up, decides he needs to go for it, and on this his second throw his disc hits a spectator (among a group who are sitting on stools, also some of whom probably not watching), and this time it DOES prevent his shot from having a chance landing safe.

So the rest of the round he plays quickly, even canning a sweet turbo and lasering the last hole, never kicks, curses, slams, nothing like that, yet some on this thread are calling his behavior "juvenile" or "unprofessional." Sorry guys I don't get that. Put yourself in HIS shoes, thinking what HE is thinking.

 

[alecfalzone]

I don't know what y'all saw on camera.. But I was literally 5 feet from both of JohnE's drives on the second and third hole of the Final 9. Neither of them hit spectators. Close? Yes. Hit any of them? Absolutely not. So.. Yeah..

And Nate did a better job than anybody could in his efforts leading up to the event. Back under the bridge you shall go.

 

[grotto]

I don't know what turbo putt you guys saw, but what I saw was a pissed off JohnE walk up, not even pause and just huck a turbo at the basket and it went in. Nice putt indeed! But hardly looked like he was trying, just a frustration throw.

He may have just had a bad day. Maybe the crowd and course annoyed him, I get that, but it was his decision to make the shots he threw and it's not like he hasn't pulled this huck-em and watch his score rise holes before. You'd think by now, as a pro he'd learn that these snap decisions hurt him more than help, then again, maybe he just can't put that pause in there and slow down.

What ever. It's still fun to watch him play, but I root for him more when he's not so miserable and is having fun with the card. It didn't look like he loosened up until the 9th hole and you saw a smile again.

Sorry, just what I saw and I mean no disrespect to JohnE

 

[Aim For The Chains]

I was the guide for the lead card and saw how tight the crowds were on Hole 2. Problem was I was hundreds of feet away and no way to let communicate down by the basket to get them pushed back. Later in the final 9 I was checking with the players if I needed to go down the fairway to push people back. We were definitely short handed at various times. More (esp. knowledgeable) volunteers would have been very helpful.

Peeps need to get paid.

 

[JohtoVillage]

I mean the TD directly said that he designed the course to test their patience. Seems kinda diabolical...

I will probably make a statement about this tomorrow in regards to the course, its future, etc.

But I have said all along that my desire was to create an extremely challenging course that required players to think about every single shot (including putts). For instance, in round 3, Paul had a 80 foot putt for deuce on hole 14 at Northwood and he was contemplating laying it up instead of going for it because there was stroke and distance OB about 20 feet behind the basket. He decided to go for it and he made it. I designed the course to play like a US Open in ball golf, which greatly punishes shots for being off of the fairway. In disc golf, a lot of times shots off of the fairway do not get punished. I agree that stroke and distance is unforgiving, but everyone played the same rules. Maybe I was wrong to say I was trying to test people's patience, but I was definitely trying to make people think more and in turn, that probably frustrated some people.

As I said, I plan on making a comment about the course tomorrow and the tournament officially and then leave it at that for good.

 

[Pbmercil]

I will probably make a statement about this tomorrow in regards to the course, its future, etc.

But I have said all along that my desire was to create an extremely challenging course that required players to think about every single shot (including putts). For instance, in round 3, Paul had a 80 foot putt for deuce on hole 14 at Northwood and he was contemplating laying it up instead of going for it because there was stroke and distance OB about 20 feet behind the basket. He decided to go for it and he made it. I designed the course to play like a US Open in ball golf, which greatly punishes shots for being off of the fairway. In disc golf, a lot of times shots off of the fairway do not get punished. I agree that stroke and distance is unforgiving, but everyone played the same rules. Maybe I was wrong to say I was trying to test people's patience, but I was definitely trying to make people think more and in turn, that probably frustrated some people.

As I said, I plan on making a comment about the course tomorrow and the tournament officially and then leave it at that for good.

You really don't owe this crowd (or frankly anyone) an explanation. But your insight is greatly appreciated.

 

[@iDiscGolf]

Hey man, it was a good event. You should definitely be proud.Turnout was great and the coverage was nice too. It was a win. I understand this was a shake up in play and I get that now.

Testing the players patience is not a bad aspect, but when you mention "punishing" and "ball golf" it just may not be everyones cup of tea (players/fans). But who knows, it was a great turnout and I think its another great NT for the tour.

The stroke and distance is starting to grow on me now that Ive had some time to digest it. To me moderation is key, and I like to watch an event that is FUN to watch and the players excel.

 

[JohtoVillage]

I'd like to talk about the "Bridge Hole", #6 at Lake Eureka Temp which yielded some large #'s from elite players. This basket placement was a "sucker pin" placement. Very similar to Winthrop Gold #17. If you try to park it, you have to throw a GREAT shot (this goes for parking it from the teepad or from the layup zone). Players could have played it to the fatter part of the green! These players who chose to keep attacking the basket, which was on the very small part of the green, might just deserve the numbers they got.

I appreciate the thought hear from Dana. I truly fell in love with this hole and it was dramatically different when I designed the course 6 months ago. And then we had record rainfall and that entire area was under water for essentially 4 weeks. That caused the tall grass to invade a lot of my fairway and honestly I wasn't even sure if I could use the hole a week before the event. So I had to dramatically change the routing of that hole and the roped fairway. Therefore that hole had no testing and I truly didn't know how it would play. I had a much different design in mind originally and the weather had a different idea. I think the bridge hole is a nice hole that needs a little tweaking and I probably would just make the green a little bigger to entice more players to go for it.

 

[geoloseth]

I will probably make a statement about this tomorrow in regards to the course, its future, etc.

But I have said all along that my desire was to create an extremely challenging course that required players to think about every single shot (including putts). For instance, in round 3, Paul had a 80 foot putt for deuce on hole 14 at Northwood and he was contemplating laying it up instead of going for it because there was stroke and distance OB about 20 feet behind the basket. He decided to go for it and he made it. I designed the course to play like a US Open in ball golf, which greatly punishes shots for being off of the fairway. In disc golf, a lot of times shots off of the fairway do not get punished. I agree that stroke and distance is unforgiving, but everyone played the same rules. Maybe I was wrong to say I was trying to test people's patience, but I was definitely trying to make people think more and in turn, that probably frustrated some people.

As I said, I plan on making a comment about the course tomorrow and the tournament officially and then leave it at that for good.

I liked seeing stroke and distance applied at this event. Many of the major tournaments we have reward the longer throwers and lets them risk taking one extra stroke while still letting them advance 500' down the fairway. Majors and National Tours should be a true test of everything a golfer can do. Shots should make a player ask themselves whether they want to risk throwing a 500' shot AND land in bounds knowing that if they try it and fail then they take the penalty and have to decide to try it again or play more conservatively.

Along with stroke and distance, or in some cases just distance, I think smaller targets could be used (think gateway bullseye basket) to help separate competitor based on skill and strategy.

Thank you Nate for putting on a landmark event and pushing the envelope for disc golf tournaments.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

PS from a true pro to the whiney players who expect a check'



the TD is very unselfish, funny how he seems successful eh?

 

[RobA]

I don't know what turbo putt you guys saw, but what I saw was a pissed off JohnE walk up, not even pause and just huck a turbo at the basket and it went in. Nice putt indeed! But hardly looked like he was trying, just a frustration throw.

He may have just had a bad day. Maybe the crowd and course annoyed him, I get that, but it was his decision to make the shots he threw and it's not like he hasn't pulled this huck-em and watch his score rise holes before. You'd think by now, as a pro he'd learn that these snap decisions hurt him more than help, then again, maybe he just can't put that pause in there and slow down.

What ever. It's still fun to watch him play, but I root for him more when he's not so miserable and is having fun with the card. It didn't look like he loosened up until the 9th hole and you saw a smile again.

Sorry, just what I saw and I mean no disrespect to JohnE

I give Simon and Paul a lot credit for not letting John E's struggles interfere with their battle for first place. That course just looked frustrating in the first place.

 

[Pbmercil]

:clap::clap::clap: Rock on Scott Stokely! Well said sir, well said

 

[Aim For The Chains]

:clap::clap::clap: Rock on Scott Stokely! Well said sir, well said

yeah watch the end for you people who cant seem to make it through content which is 1+min and doesn't interest you right away.

 

[bogeyfreetilinfinity]

John E looked like he was warming up for #17 at Winthrop the whole final nine.

 

[dekdo]

I always find it amazing that people who put in zero or low effort, and have no experience in designing courses and running big events want to tell the people doing it how wrong they are.

Anyone who brings in that much revenue, that many people, and puts on that kind of a show doesn't have to apologize to anyone in any way. What happened here was great for the sport, looked great, and is part of the increasing trend of courses that require thinking and versatile skills. If someone wants to argue it wasn't perfect, I've yet to see any product in any venture that was perfect.

Safari holes, as a business comment - if your goal is to be fair to the top card, you can argue against safari courses, if your goal is produce an exciting final, that will be enjoyed by those watching, then safari courses are to be expected. The question becomes what makes the tournament exciting for those watching, since that is the ultimate goal of the sport and the players, since that is where the money ultimately comes from. Sponsors aren't paying to make the pros happy, they are paying for the eyes - like it or not.

Player conduct - appalling, instant media means we get to see it in ways that we didn't get to in the past. Frankly, it should be ignored, all players act like donkey's some of the time, and some act like donkey's most of the time; it is only the ones who act like donkey's all the time that should concern us. I haven't yet to see one who is a constant pain, including the most infamous ones.

It's funny to see how much people are willing to defend the TD..

Its as if just because he put the event on, that he is exempt from any criticism or wrong doing.
Sorry, but it doesn't work that way.

There is definitely room for improvement for next year..

 

[Big Weekend]

I will probably make a statement about this tomorrow in regards to the course, its future, etc.

But I have said all along that my desire was to create an extremely challenging course that required players to think about every single shot (including putts). For instance, in round 3, Paul had a 80 foot putt for deuce on hole 14 at Northwood and he was contemplating laying it up instead of going for it because there was stroke and distance OB about 20 feet behind the basket. He decided to go for it and he made it. I designed the course to play like a US Open in ball golf, which greatly punishes shots for being off of the fairway. In disc golf, a lot of times shots off of the fairway do not get punished. I agree that stroke and distance is unforgiving, but everyone played the same rules. Maybe I was wrong to say I was trying to test people's patience, but I was definitely trying to make people think more and in turn, that probably frustrated some people.

As I said, I plan on making a comment about the course tomorrow and the tournament officially and then leave it at that for good.

I wish I would've know the stroke and distance was going to be scattered throughout this tourney as I LOVE IT!
Please don't make the courses easier for next year. Cheers to all your efforts.

 

[EricW]

Just thanks to the TD, sponsors, volunteers, and all the coverage!

While I believe the wind pushed the final 9 course over the tipping point of fair resulting in some well-thrown earnest attempts at safe that went OB, that's the risk when trying to create a layout that truly challenges the top pros who consistently make tough courses look easy. Maybe the Ledgestone will the equivalent of ball golf's US Open where the winner is usually the one with the least bruises. It'll take fire until everyone understands that goal. Maybe advertised it as such is all that's needed. The difficulty caught me off guard as a viewer from halfway across the county.

I think we all like to jump into the deep end once in a while and knowingly get in over our head difficulty-wise. How we deal with the inevitable moments of failure or a series of failures is certainly part of the game that's not often tested. Not simply being outplayed, but an inability to execute even what feels to be a compromise isn't always pretty, but it's human.