[Discraft] Buzzz not fading?

[jdggna]

I had trouble finding the link to that marmoset's thread. Can you hook me up? I'll keep looking for it in the meantime- sounds super interesting.

Yeah, I looked before I posted that, but I couldn't find it either. I know he did the original testing of the theory over on DGR, so the original thread isn't available right now. He put together one here because of the questions he'd been receiving about it, but I'm not sure what it was titled exactly.

A quick run down:
It's commonly abbreviated as PLH, and basically the higher it is, the more stable the disc will be relative to other discs of the same mold. Both dome and PLH are determined by the cooling characteristics of the plastic blend of the run, so they usually correlate between discs of the same mold. If a high PLH disc is flat then typically looking for a flat one will give a similar PLH, though there will always be mutants from time to time. For example: Firebirds typically are flatter when the have a higher PLH (I believe anyways...I could have it backwards here, but the principle remains the same), but it is possible to find a domey Firebird with a high PLH.

I'll see if I can find a picture that demonstrates a higher PLH vs a lower PLH.

 

[racer93]

I use 175 Z Glo Buzz's for the same D. They start to feel squirrely around 370 feet for me. I can snap it up with some hyzer and have it go dead straight for about 360, then a small fade out. Or I can throw a wider shot with some more hyzer for about 375, 380. I don't find them very reliable past 375 though, it would be worth looking at the Wasp if you want to throw a mid that far and still have a strong fade. Or my Gateway Warrior and new KC Pro Roc will do that. That's actually the reason I don't throw them, I like the straighter line of the buzz.

What elevation are you at? That can change flights some.

Your experience is about the same as mine. At longer range, they tend to either drop straight down (a la the Comet) or fade ever so slightly right. The new E*Roc I picked up yesterday has a nice, strong fade, so that may go into my bag...we'll see.

Thanks for the thoughts...

Daniel

 

[garublador]

You're just discovering why many people complement a Buzzz with a Wasp. You aren't doing anything wrong.

I can't consistantly throw Rocs 350'-375', but I have on occasion and they do fade at that range. Wasps fade harder, especially in Z, so you shouldn't have an issue with them.

 

[jdggna]

In my Buzzz experience, most are going to show some understability if thrown farther than 330'. You have two options...Search for a more stable Buzzz (We have some very stable ones at CDGS), or throw nose down with exaggerated hyzer. Basically, most mids are designed to fly at their flight ratings at about 300' or so of power. At 350'-375' of power ALL stable mids fly straight to understable.

I had a question about this. 350 feet is about the limit of what I can throw my Buzzz at assuming its a calm day, flat ground, etc. When I throw this distance I have to give it extra height and play the turn/fade to get it there. Right around 300 feet is where I loose the ability to throw a "Buzzz" line that is low and straight. Is this typical, or should I be working on cleaning up my form when I'm throwing my Buzzz?

 

[discspeed]

You're just discovering why many people complement a Buzzz with a Wasp. You aren't doing anything wrong.

I can't consistantly throw Rocs 350'-375', but I have on occasion and they do fade at that range. Wasps fade harder, especially in Z, so you shouldn't have an issue with them.

This depends on the flight line. If you are talking a shot that holds straight for the majority of the flight, then none of these discs have much fade. If you are talking more of a hyzer or a hyzer flip that rides on the slow hyzer without flattening up, then the Roc is better as both the Wasp and Buzzz tend to push forward to flat when powered.

To throw 350'+ shots with these mids that still have good fade, you need to first have one hell of an arm because you are essentially flattening a "0" turn disc. However, even people that do possess this kind of power are usually going to choose an overstable fairway driver for these shots because there is always the chance that you are going to flatten out a mid on a power shot like that (or if there is any wind) if you make a small mistake.

 

[discspeed]

I had a question about this. 350 feet is about the limit of what I can throw my Buzzz at assuming its a calm day, flat ground, etc. When I throw this distance I have to give it extra height and play the turn/fade to get it there. Right around 300 feet is where I loose the ability to throw a "Buzzz" line that is low and straight. Is this typical, or should I be working on cleaning up my form when I'm throwing my Buzzz?

To keep a Buzzz at chest height over 300' it requires a hyzer flip and a LOT of power. The Buzzz can fly over 350' at chest height, but it requires the kind of power that would take a distance driver 450'+ on a low line drive.

If you need height, turn, and fade to get your Buzzz 350' it probably just means that you don't have a mutant arm. I can't go much over 300' at chest height (at least not without some skip), but I can get to about 350' @ 6-8' of height. I still feel more reliable and accurate giving my Buzzz 10-15' of height for 350' and letting it glide.

 

[garublador]

However, even people that do possess this kind of power are usually going to choose an overstable fairway driver for these shots

I agree with that. There are plenty of fairway drivers that fly well at 350' that will also fade quite a bit harder than a mid.

 

[Jak3]

Put more angle on it.

 

[racer93]

I've thought more about the fairway drivers, but I like the flight characteristics of mids better for the general, open to slight hyzer 300-375' shot. Specifically, I'm talking about more gentle movements, L to R or R to L.

I do have 450' line drive power. My longest drives have come with only minimal turn from a Boss at 515'. My long drives with mids are probably 15-25' high. Comets are a little higher to let them work more.

If there is a significant wind, I tend to rethink using mids. I think any smart dger would in the 350' range. Sometimes I will (I did yesterday with a new E*roc and it worked well), sometimes I'll go with my preds. Just depends.

Jak, more than 30deg hyzer is a bit much. I'd rather throw something flat and let it do what it is going to do (hyzer).

 

[WillACarpenter]

Sounds like some OAT to me.

If a Wasp doesn't fade back for you...you're doing something wrong. Not trying to call you out or anything, I'm just saying. Wasps FADE. BuZzz fade a bit.

\/\/

 

[bthoma1]

with my experiece the buzzz goes straight with little fade as well.
I am also throwing my Buzzz around the same distance as you. When you throw your Buzzz that far 325+ the closer you release it flat the more it will turnover on you. From my experience it is because of throwing to hard, rolling wrist, etc.
If you want something like your Buzzz but that hooks left why not get a drone? or if you just want a longer buzzz get a stalker

 

[jdggna]

To keep a Buzzz at chest height over 300' it requires a hyzer flip and a LOT of power. The Buzzz can fly over 350' at chest height, but it requires the kind of power that would take a distance driver 450'+ on a low line drive.

If you need height, turn, and fade to get your Buzzz 350' it probably just means that you don't have a mutant arm. I can't go much over 300' at chest height (at least not without some skip), but I can get to about 350' @ 6-8' of height. I still feel more reliable and accurate giving my Buzzz 10-15' of height for 350' and letting it glide.

I'm around the area of 6-8 feet at 300, but moving up to 350 feet I'm throwing them closer to 35, though they'd go the same distance if I kept them at 10-15. I can't figure out the height while hyzer flipping them. It seems to go from too low to too high with the most subtle of changes.

I suppose adding a new Buzzz to my bag would probably help. My 2.5 year old bar stamp doesn't fly stable at much longer than 250 feet, and my Glo Zs just seem to fall out of the air once they pass 300. I'll have to try out a couple of the purple Zs that I had you pick out for me awhile back and see if that helps.

 

[racer93]

Sounds like some OAT to me.

If a Wasp doesn't fade back for you...you're doing something wrong. Not trying to call you out or anything, I'm just saying. Wasps FADE. BuZzz fade a bit.

\/\/

The reason I don't think it's OAT issues (although it may be) is that I have learned to cause OAT purposefully (to get a mid-late flight flip on discs) and I'm not doing this per video and friends who are watching my form. I had issues with this a while back and learned to correct it.

I wouldn't be so absolute about wasps fading. Mine is a 168 Z and it's pretty straight when thrown HARD. It's like a TB--it doesn't turn at high speeds, but it doesn't fade much at the end. Let me put it like this--for me, a Buzzz is a -0.5 and a Wasp is a +0.5. What I was looking for was maybe a +1.0 or +1.5, which is where the E*Roc falls and I'm testing it out, so we'll see...

Daniel

 

[racer93]

I'm around the area of 6-8 feet at 300, but moving up to 350 feet I'm throwing them closer to 35, though they'd go the same distance if I kept them at 10-15. I can't figure out the height while hyzer flipping them. It seems to go from too low to too high with the most subtle of changes.

Watch the nose down angle closely. I've found that Buzzzes are very sensitive to ND angles.

I suppose adding a new Buzzz to my bag would probably help. My 2.5 year old bar stamp doesn't fly stable at much longer than 250 feet, and my Glo Zs just seem to fall out of the air once they pass 300. I'll have to try out a couple of the purple Zs that I had you pick out for me awhile back and see if that helps.

Yeah, I'm interested in the purples that DS talked about. For me, the Glo buzzzes are just as long as the regular Zs. If nothing else, they're a little flippier. They really tend to flatten from a hyzer much faster than the regular Zs I have (both have the same amount of wear).

 

[discspeed]

Glo Z Buzzzes are awesome and versatile inside 320'. At that distance they do not flip, hold great hyzers, and fly on some of the best annies of any Buzzz. However, powered further they flatten and do not carry like most other Buzzzes. They are slow for a Buzzz, but this is part of what makes them more versatile as a true mid than most other Buzzzes.

 

[Mike C]

What elevation are you at? That can change flights some.

Your experience is about the same as mine. At longer range, they tend to either drop straight down (a la the Comet) or fade ever so slightly right. The new E*Roc I picked up yesterday has a nice, strong fade, so that may go into my bag...we'll see.

Thanks for the thoughts...

Daniel

I think I'm around 1, 100.

I've had a few controlled 375 foot hyzer drives with my Buzz, but my typical straight distance shot is released with a little hyzer, flips up flat and moves right a few feet, then fades gently at the last 10%-5% of it's flight and goes between 365-380 feet.

I have a few stable mids I play around in the field with. In order of most stable to least, new KC Pro Roc 175, Gateway Warrior 178, 180 E*Roc San Marino. The *Roc I've thrown ~400' two or three times, can usually get it out to 380. It's more consistent for me taking it to the max distance I can throw it, but the Buzz shapes lines better for me so I end up using it all the time. The other two fade harder than I like. They'd be nice discs once broken in but my Buzz flies just how I want from the first throw so I'm not motivated to beat them in. I throw Z Glo Buzzes if that matters.

 

[jdggna]

I had trouble finding the link to that marmoset's thread. Can you hook me up? I'll keep looking for it in the meantime- sounds super interesting.

culinarywiz found it for me:

It's quite thorough...http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13889

 

[WillACarpenter]

The reason I don't think it's OAT issues (although it may be) is that I have learned to cause OAT purposefully (to get a mid-late flight flip on discs) and I'm not doing this per video and friends who are watching my form. I had issues with this a while back and learned to correct it.

I wouldn't be so absolute about wasps fading. Mine is a 168 Z and it's pretty straight when thrown HARD. It's like a TB--it doesn't turn at high speeds, but it doesn't fade much at the end. Let me put it like this--for me, a Buzzz is a -0.5 and a Wasp is a +0.5. What I was looking for was maybe a +1.0 or +1.5, which is where the E*Roc falls and I'm testing it out, so we'll see...

Daniel

First...There are many forms of OAT and many subtle variations of it.

Second. Wrong. A Wasp is a 1.5 stability, a BuZzz is a .5 stability, and a Meteor is a -.5 stability.

A Drone is a 2.5 stability.

A Nebula is a 1.0 stability. (I think)

\/\/

 

[racer93]

Second. Wrong. A Wasp is a 1.5 stability, a BuZzz is a .5 stability, and a Meteor is a -.5 stability.

Fail. Reread my post. I said "...For me, a (blank) is..." This means that a disc acts this way for me, not for someone (in general). Just trying to give some reference.

You don't have to believe me abou OAT. That's fine. If you'd like to come and watch, you're more than welcome...

 

[Jak3]

I've thought more about the fairway drivers, but I like the flight characteristics of mids better for the general, open to slight hyzer 300-375' shot. Specifically, I'm talking about more gentle movements, L to R or R to L.

I do have 450' line drive power. My longest drives have come with only minimal turn from a Boss at 515'. My long drives with mids are probably 15-25' high. Comets are a little higher to let them work more.

If there is a significant wind, I tend to rethink using mids. I think any smart dger would in the 350' range. Sometimes I will (I did yesterday with a new E*roc and it worked well), sometimes I'll go with my preds. Just depends.

Jak, more than 30deg hyzer is a bit much. I'd rather throw something flat and let it do what it is going to do (hyzer).

Well a broke in buzzz doesnt have huge hook... Maybe you should consider getting a wasp or something more ostable...

Or better yet learn how to control the buzzz...