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Define "Professional" Disc Golfer

That was right before I joined 23 years ago. At that time the PDGA office was on Toronto Island, and I would see "Guru" Hoeniger at the few Can Am tournaments I played. It took years to outgrow the image of disc golf being a hippy dippy sport, but can you blame me with that introduction, lol. It is striking to me watching the footage today compared to the 1999 World Championships video on Youtube. My form now more resembles the form folks used back then as opposed to the form people use today, lol.

I joined very shortly before Three Putt. At that point the prior Administrator had left and there was no one stuffing the envelopes. I received my membership stuff something like 4 months after mailing off for it. Becky Powell really saved the whole enchilada. Staff doubled when it moved to Toronto for Brian to be Admin because his wife Laurie worked on it too. Office was still a closet in their home I believe.
 
Just tried that with my cart. Finally figured out I needed to swing it around by the handle like an Olympic hammer throw.

Oh man.. I am pretty embarrassed to say that I have had days where I have done that to my poor bag after missing putts from like 5 feet away.

I must say, launching your bag into the stratosphere after missing a shot does feel pretty good as long as nobody is watching.
 
Oh man.. I am pretty embarrassed to say that I have had days where I have done that to my poor bag after missing putts from like 5 feet away.

I must say, launching your bag into the stratosphere after missing a shot does feel pretty good as long as nobody is watching.

And then you get your reward of picking up all your stuff that flew out.
 
Semi-pro could be considered a knock if actually pro was a viable option.

If I had been a semi-pro baseball player in the 90's you could conclude that I wasn't good enough to play pro baseball and semi-pro could be considered a knock on my talent vs. the hundreds of players my age that were good enough to play pro ball.

If we want to retroactively declare that Ken Climo in 1995 was "semi-pro" because he won less than $20,000 doing it, that's just us being dumb. :| No knock on Ken Climo at all.

Semi-Pro might mean something different to you then to me.

A guy like James Proctor is a Semi-Pro. Though he is in the top 10 in the world by rating. He works most of the year doing something else. He's a part time player.

The term Pro is extremely general. There are some Pro disc golfers who simply make disc golf videos and post them on youtube. But they also might be 950 rated if they even played in an event. Pro just means you make money from that sport.
 
And then you get your reward of picking up all your stuff that flew out.

Lol yep that's why I keep my bag fully zipped and my water bottle locked in at all times just in case I need to send my bag to the moon.

I had no water to drink after the 3rd hole in a 20+ hole course one time because I kicked my bag and my water bottle flew out and the part you drink out of landed in some REALLY gross mud. Got under the cap somehow too. Felt extremely stupid afterwards naturally.
 
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The PDGA needs to rethink the tournament structure.

For starters it should rename the sections Open and Amateur.

The Amateur Section would be reserved for players rated below 950 IMO.

The entry fee would typically be lower for the Amateur Section.

Amateurs should be able to compete for cash prizes, lower than the Open Section, but cash all the same.

This would rid us all of the absurd "players pack" that generally consists of a disc we don't need, a sippy cup we don't want, and a sticker we leave on the table unless we have small children or are hopelessly anal. About the only useful player's pack item is the occasional T-Shirt.

Before anyone has a fit about amateurs accepting money, here is the Free Dictionary definition of the word:

1. One who engages in an art, science, study, or athletic activity as a pastime rather than as a profession.
2. Sports An athlete who has never accepted money, or who accepts money under restrictions specified by a regulatory body, for participating in a competition.
3. One lacking the skill of a professional, as in an art.

The word "Amateur" has different shades of meaning and in any case doesn't have to mean "has never accepted money" but furthermore worthless baubles are themselves a form of "money" so the entire argument is stupid beyond belief.
 
Lol yep that's why I keep my bag fully zipped and my water bottle locked in at all times just in case I need to send my bag to the moon.

I had no water to drink after the 3rd hole in a 20+ hole course one time because I kicked my bag and my water bottle flew out and the part you drink out of landed in some REALLY gross mud. Got under the cap somehow too. Felt extremely stupid afterwards naturally.

I played a round in the heat and ran out of water. I had to give it up a couple of hole short. Sometimes it's just not worth it.
 
Semi-Pro might mean something different to you then to me.

A guy like James Proctor is a Semi-Pro. Though he is in the top 10 in the world by rating. He works most of the year doing something else. He's a part time player.

The term Pro is extremely general. There are some Pro disc golfers who simply make disc golf videos and post them on youtube. But they also might be 950 rated if they even played in an event. Pro just means you make money from that sport.
So...disc golf has a culture, and if you get in tune with the culture that disc golfers have then you would know that James Proctor is a Pro disc golfer. If you come in with outside definitions of stuff and ignore what the culture of the sport is, you end up being one of those guys that doesn't understand that "super stable" means overstable and doesn't understand that James Proctor is a Pro disc golfer. Andrew Fish is a Pro disc golfer. If you are North of 1020 good, you are a Pro. Disc golf has never cared how much you tour and how much money you make, disc golf has always just cared how good you are.

Until this thread. :\ Just now it has become an issue.

It's going to be a long winter on this board...
 
So...disc golf has a culture, and if you get in tune with the culture that disc golfers have then you would know that James Proctor is a Pro disc golfer. If you come in with outside definitions of stuff and ignore what the culture of the sport is, you end up being one of those guys that doesn't understand that "super stable" means overstable and doesn't understand that James Proctor is a Pro disc golfer. Andrew Fish is a Pro disc golfer. If you are North of 1020 good, you are a Pro. Disc golf has never cared how much you tour and how much money you make, disc golf has always just cared how good you are.

Until this thread. :\ Just now it has become an issue.

It's going to be a long winter on this board...


Eggzachly.
 
Competition reality, even if divisions not labeled this way, from a net cash/merch compensation and winnings perspective:
- Elite Pro 1025+ (Most/all income disc golf related)
- ThreeQuarter Pro 1000+ (supplemental part-time income, likely seasonal)
- Semi Pro 975+ (at least 50% of income from sources other than DG competition)
- Quarter Pro 700+ (Competition Ams, some sponsored. Flexible to fulltime jobs. Also win cash/merch in leagues and unsanctioned events)
- True Amateurs (Win/earn minimal tangible prize values if they compete at all)

Although focused on players under age 40, it probably holds up for those over 40, too.

Absolutely NOT! Everyone agrees we need a binary distinction with a demarcation no one agrees upon . . .
 
So...disc golf has a culture, and if you get in tune with the culture that disc golfers have then you would know that James Proctor is a Pro disc golfer. If you come in with outside definitions of stuff and ignore what the culture of the sport is, you end up being one of those guys that doesn't understand that "super stable" means overstable and doesn't understand that James Proctor is a Pro disc golfer. Andrew Fish is a Pro disc golfer. If you are North of 1020 good, you are a Pro. Disc golf has never cared how much you tour and how much money you make, disc golf has always just cared how good you are.

Until this thread. :\ Just now it has become an issue.

It's going to be a long winter on this board...

Proctor is a Pro. Semi just means part time. You can call him either, it's fine. :)
 
I suppose if the 2021 Tim Selinske US Masters champion, who has been playing MPO since 1995 and has the following stats

Career Events: 597
Career Wins: 174
Career Earnings: $169,344.87

isn't considered a professional disc golfer, then the number of professional disc golfers in the history of professional disc golf must be less than two dozen.


$169k in 26 years is $6,500 per year. If disc golf is his profession then he is living way below the poverty line.

I've never sat down to think about how many disc golfers all-time have been fortunate enough to make disc golf their profession. 24 is as good of a guess as any, so we'll go with your number. You state that like it's inconceivable that there have been so few professionals in the sport. Not sure why that is hard to believe, unless you're conflating talent with a paycheck. Let me give you a personal example.

In high school, I was the #1 trombone player in the state three years in a row (super cool, I know). That's pretty rare. But for a variety of reasons, I decided to get finance and econ degrees instead and follow down that career path. Meanwhile, a guy I went to school with that was a far less talented trombonist became a music major in college. He is now a high school band director and plays gigs part time to supplement. Which of us is the professional? The one who is talented but plays music periodically on a volunteer non-paid basis, or the less talented musician who gets his primary paycheck from teaching music and secondary one from performing it? I'll give you a hint: I'm not the pro.

I think the PDGA's use of the terms "pro" and "am" is what causes the confusion. The rest of the English language doesn't work that way. Go up to any single person on the street and ask them what it means to be a professional baseball player. They'll say that means a guy who earns his living playing baseball. As disc golfers, we don't have the liberty of redefining pro and am to make ourselves feel better. The words already have commonly accepted meaning.
 
$169k in 26 years is $6,500 per year. If disc golf is his profession then he is living way below the poverty line.

I've never sat down to think about how many disc golfers all-time have been fortunate enough to make disc golf their profession. 24 is as good of a guess as any, so we'll go with your number. You state that like it's inconceivable that there have been so few professionals in the sport. Not sure why that is hard to believe, unless you're conflating talent with a paycheck. Let me give you a personal example.

In high school, I was the #1 trombone player in the state three years in a row (super cool, I know). That's pretty rare. But for a variety of reasons, I decided to get finance and econ degrees instead and follow down that career path. Meanwhile, a guy I went to school with that was a far less talented trombonist became a music major in college. He is now a high school band director and plays gigs part time to supplement. Which of us is the professional? The one who is talented but plays music periodically on a volunteer non-paid basis, or the less talented musician who gets his primary paycheck from teaching music and secondary one from performing it? I'll give you a hint: I'm not the pro.

I think the PDGA's use of the terms "pro" and "am" is what causes the confusion. The rest of the English language doesn't work that way. Go up to any single person on the street and ask them what it means to be a professional baseball player. They'll say that means a guy who earns his living playing baseball. As disc golfers, we don't have the liberty of redefining pro and am to make ourselves feel better. The words already have commonly accepted meaning.

I would argue that he was a professional, but at the same time he was semi-pro.

Professional just means you make money from that endeavor. Yes he made money. But I doubt it was his full time profession either. Like you said 6K a year isn't going to go far.

I agree with you that Pro doesn't automatically equal talent. You can be a Pro and be just decent at your Profession. While an Amateur could be better then the Professional. You don't have to play for money if you don't want right? You don't have to play tournaments at all or join the PDGA. I bet some non PDGA members are pretty dang good out there.
 
I would argue that he was a professional, but at the same time he was semi-pro.

Professional just means you make money from that endeavor. Yes he made money. But I doubt it was his full time profession either. Like you said 6K a year isn't going to go far.

I agree with you that Pro doesn't automatically equal talent. You can be a Pro and be just decent at your Profession. While an Amateur could be better then the Professional. You don't have to play for money if you don't want right? You don't have to play tournaments at all or join the PDGA. I bet some non PDGA members are pretty dang good out there.

I don't have an issue with the term semi-pro. It's ambiguous, but implies some level of compensation that is less than one's primary paycheck. I just think disc golfers calling themselves "pros" when they bring in $2,000 is an embarrassing cry for validation.
 
I don't have an issue with the term semi-pro. It's ambiguous, but implies some level of compensation that is less than one's primary paycheck. I just think disc golfers calling themselves "pros" when they bring in $2,000 is an embarrassing cry for validation.

It's technically correct though as well. You are now inferring that they are proud that they made money from playing disc golf. Maybe they are embarrassed by it. We don't know really.

I've seen many guys play open that have no business doing it. That is strange for me. Guys who would have a very hard time winning advanced. I guess they just like donating money? Or maybe their ego won't let them play "AM". Not sure.
 
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