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[Legacy] Legacy Cannon Review Thread

lion

I'm feeling frisky.
Bronze level trusted reviewer
Premium Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2009
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Please post reviews on what you think of the cannon after throwing it at least a dozen times. Also give some info on yourself like how far you throw, if your a righty or lefty, backhand or forehand, main distance driver you throw and all the info you can on the cannon like:

1. Flight
2. glide
3. if you threw it in wind
4. durability
5. how it compares to other discs you throw
6. like it or not
7. distance you got
8. how you threw it
9. any else that may apply

I will give mine next week once I throw a few colors to see.
 
woah the cannons look amazing right now. Highly interested in them now and im hoping to get ahold of some sooner or later as soon as i have some money =/
 
I can give a green review as of right now, but I'll hold off for a few more for clarity. Quite happy so far.
 
Ok, I threw 4 colors today at least 10 times each in different winds and with no wind. The temperature was probably around 60 degrees when I threw these and I threw all of them RHBH.

Red Cannon : The red Cannon was the flippiest or most understable color I threw all day. I did turn the disc over a few times when I released it straight with no height. With a head win I threw it with some height and with some hyzer and it seemed to work with huge S bombs. Without the hyzer it would turn over to much. With a tail wind I threw it hard and flat with some height and it worked great for some huge distance. Max throw was 460-470 feet.

Blue Cannon : This color was my personal favorite because I got the most distance, but not by much. With a head wind I threw it flat and got huge distance with a S turn. I also loved when I ripped it well with HYzer and it flipped up and went. With a Tail wind I put a slight anhyzer on the disc and it was a beast, with 2 throws around 500 feet. The plastic also looked new after I threw it on dirt, grass, and into brush when it just went deep. Didnt flip as much as the red cannon.

Lime Cannon: The stability was a little more then the blue or red. I didnt turn the disc into the ground ever. I have the most throws with this color. For some reason I had a few slight S turn throws with this disc, but it flew straighter then the rest of the other 3 color cannons. With head wind I threw it flat and with tailwind I threw it with anyhzer, but it tended to come out of it faster then the blue cannon. The head wind shots it just went straight. I did see my father in law have an incredible snap on it on a slightly up hill 550 foot hole and he was around 450 and he had it do a nice S turn. No wind just release it flat and hard, but always give it a little flight. If you had to throw a low ceiling shot with any cannon use the lime. I wouldnt think it would roll over or come out of it to soon like the red or blue.

Yellow test run Cannon: The yellows I'm selling are the only run of yellows that have more flexibility then the rest. There were more yellow cannons run during Thanksgiving, but not as flexible as the ones I have. These were the most stable of the three, but wow did they impress me and they out drove my champ and star boss when they went head to head on a huge 540 foot hyzer hole. I actually got the cannon to go like 30-40 feet further. the glide was crazy and with the hard finish it just got the Distance. I love the cannon for hyzer bombs that I want to hyzer the entire way and with the flexibility in the plastic I was able to snap a few super straight throws in stable right to left winds. I had to crush a few shots 480+. Looking back at it I wish I would of thrown it on the slight down hill 700 foot hole I was murdering with the blue cannon. If you have a huge throw and snap the yellow is wow.

1. Flight was great with this disc. It didnt disappoint at all.
2. Glide was long and true.
3. I threw it with wind and without.
4. The plastic is durable and showed no signs of use as of now.
5. It only out performed my boss, I didnt match it against my destroyer
6. I love it
7. When I threw it well 430-500
8. All throws were RHBH
9. I plan on leaving the blue and yellow cannons in my bag and feel great about throwing them during my rounds and future tourney play.

Get one and let me know, I threw it at around 2000 feet above sea level.
 
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Is the variation in stability as it's related to color something legacy is doing on purpose?
 
variation in color no, it really depends on how the color pellets change the plastic density and flexibility, its noticeable in lots of plastic companies discs. I know to buy certain colors in certain discs from innova because they perform differently, I first really noticed it in the 2008 1st run bosses. With the bigger rims its harder to get lower weights in the premium plastics and hard to keep all the colors different. If I wasnt looking for certain things alot of people might have not noticed the sometime slight difference in plastic color discs. There are differences, but there not worlds apart. I guess the further you throw the more noticeable it is. The less distance you throw the less the gap is between plastics. The yellow ones I have were made with more flexibility by accident and I love them for that, but I'm not saying there for everyone. All Legacy wants is for all the discs to be the same, but there learning its a never ending battle to make that possible. Legacy is young and learning. This disc is awesome and bold. Speed 14 drivers meet a smaller demographic of throwers, but they still went for it. Now its time to throw and enjoy the Cannon, because we will soon be reviewing The Clutch
 
It kills me that you say the different colors fly different. :thmbdown:

I am not interested in a company that cannot produce a consistent product. I want a disc that I can buy now or 3 years from now and that will fly the same. If the same run produces wild variation in stability, then the process is flawed.

Colorants should not affect plastic density or stiffness. The most likely cause of inconsistent molding is temperature of the plastic, the machine it is made on, or cooling too fast or slow.

I was about to buy a Rampage, thanks for saving me some money.
 
We experimented with temperatures, amounts of color, length of time in mold, and many others. Must of molded for 4 months before a product was released. If you noticed that every company has the same issues, you can even see on youtube gateway molding some discs and how they do it. Plastic changes and out of the big 4 plastic companies, even they say certain plastics change or are altered because what they put into the plastics change. Thats why certain disc companies cannot get certain plastics any longer or have changed receipes. If you live off the principal that you wont throw a company thats not consistent then you just wont throw.
 
It kills me that you say the different colors fly different. :thmbdown:

I am not interested in a company that cannot produce a consistent product. I want a disc that I can buy now or 3 years from now and that will fly the same. If the same run produces wild variation in stability, then the process is flawed.

Colorants should not affect plastic density or stiffness. The most likely cause of inconsistent molding is temperature of the plastic, the machine it is made on, or cooling too fast or slow.

I was about to buy a Rampage, thanks for saving me some money.

I'm not trying to derail the thread, but I felt that this was worth saying.

Inconsistency, at this point, is unfortunately a reality of the sport we play. The distance disc you use, the Nuke, is exactly that way. My bro in law throws Nukes, and has 5 in his bag, all that fly very differently.
Generally, with Discraft, Red and Pink fly the most overstable. But he has a flat green/chartreuse Z Nuke that is more OS than the green Forces I've thrown.

There's two issues we're dealing with:

1) Apparently, the pigment that's used to color disc golf discs is not a mass-neutral substance. Red and Pink discs are more overstable because the pigment used to get those colors contains Iron, (think rust color). So until someone finds a way to pigment discs with something other than what is used now, color-related differences in flight is an inevitability.

2) We're cheap. If it cost, say, $5 more per disc to have a better quality assurance program in place (programs/policies put in place to make the injection and cooling/curing process uniform) would you pay more? I would. But apparently the disc manufacturers feel that the majority of the market would not.
Would it cost $5 to input a QA program? I don't know. But of the many disc molders in our sport, ZERO have developed a process that provides the consistency you're looking for.
 
variation in color no, it really depends on how the color pellets change the plastic density and flexibility, its noticeable in lots of plastic companies discs. I know to buy certain colors in certain discs from innova because they perform differently, I first really noticed it in the 2008 1st run bosses. With the bigger rims its harder to get lower weights in the premium plastics and hard to keep all the colors different. If I wasnt looking for certain things alot of people might have not noticed the sometime slight difference in plastic color discs. There are differences, but there not worlds apart. I guess the further you throw the more noticeable it is. The less distance you throw the less the gap is between plastics. The yellow ones I have were made with more flexibility by accident and I love them for that, but I'm not saying there for everyone. All Legacy wants is for all the discs to be the same, but there learning its a never ending battle to make that possible. Legacy is young and learning. This disc is awesome and bold. Speed 14 drivers meet a smaller demographic of throwers, but they still went for it. Now its time to throw and enjoy the Cannon, because we will soon be reviewing The Clutch

i knew it was an issue for all companies but it sort of seemed from all the reviews that it was a conscious effort to make certain colors have subtle differences in stability.

not a problem for me at all, i just thought it was an interesting idea.
 
It kills me that you say the different colors fly different. :thmbdown:

I am not interested in a company that cannot produce a consistent product. I want a disc that I can buy now or 3 years from now and that will fly the same. If the same run produces wild variation in stability, then the process is flawed.

It's foolish to think your throw will be exactly the same in 3 years. A small difference in stability is less likely to have an affect on your game than an increase/decrease in skill or physical prowess, depending on which side of the hill you're on.

Just looking at your sig I see 6 discs that have been in production for less than 3 years, so obviously you're not opposed to trying new molds, and many of those are subject to huge variation in their stability out of the box. Not to mention the various versions of Firebirds and the crazy different blends of JK Pro plastic. The closest thing to a consistent mold in your bag is the Gator and even that has seen a bunch of mold changes...

Try a Rampage and Cannon!
 
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A few of my friends that got the Cannon say that they are finding it easier to throw for distance over their current distance drivers. Right now we have only been throwing the red Cannons, RHBH. It is only 30deg F here in Seattle and the Icon plastic is stil flexable. The cold stale air is making the disc a bit more stable, but thats to be expected. Its crazy just how fast this disc realy is, even the fact that people I know throwing Legacy plastic say that its easier to throw. The only driver left in the bag is my 149 Z Flick, the Rampage and Cannon has kicked everybody else outa the bag.
 
Legacy Cannon (I really liked this disc and tried to be impartial and fair but I am sure my bias leaked in there somewhere)

Disc Colors Tested – This write up is divided in two groups red/blue and the purple. The red and blue were almost identical but the purple was much more overstable.

Scaled
Red - 174
Blue - 174
Purple - 173

Koffee's Numbers he would recommend for Joe to put on his flight chart. (Referring to myself in 3rd person very professional!!)

HSS -1 LSS 3.5 Power 5

Koffee's Numbers he would recommend For the Innova numbering system.

Speed 13 Glide 5 Turn –3 Fade 3

Conditions
61 Degrees
Wind - 3 mph

My Throwing Style 70/30 BH/FH

Field work 25 throws per color. Range was determined by Range finder.

Red and Blue were identical in all comparisons. Purple was the only disc that behaved differently.

Red and Blue Tests throws
Max Distance (RHBH) Line drive – 390
Max Distance (RHBH) S – Curve 430
Max Distance (RHFH) - 320

Purple Test Throws
Max Distance – (RHBH) Line Drive – 360
Max Distance (RHBH) S – Curve - 410
Max Distance – (RHFH) – 350

Flight – Red and Blue Straight with mild fade at the end of the flight. The Purple cannon flew straight with moderate fade at the end of its flight path. It was not over powering but could easily get you around an obstacle. This was very destroyish in its flight path.

Plastic – Seems as durable as Star and ESP. I launched a couple skips off the black top and plugged a tree full blast from 20 feet and discs looked none the worse for wear on inspection.

Grip – nothing out of the ordinary compared to other similar plastics. I tossed the discs a few times covered in dew and did not notice any troubles with slippage that was different from other plastics.

Eye Candy – The Blues are just crazy good looking with iridescent patterns in the plastic. The red disc was really vibrant and easy to pick out from the fall leave colors. The purple was just normal purple cool but nothing to write home about.

Control – It did nicely on low ceiling turnover shots out side of 325 ft. It was easier to control then the Havoc as it handled power more linearly. It was similar to the rogue and wraith when there was not a ceiling. However with a ceiling the cannon did better for the fact it did not take as much power and therefore was more consistent.

Comparisons -

Wraith– I really like the wraith but favor the cannon over this disc as it just does better on low ceiling shots.

Nuke – The Cannon icon kills ESP nukes. This disc is much easier to control and is more consistent. As far as comparing it to a Z Nuke the icon cannon is more understable.

Destroyer – Purple Cannon – This color flies exactly like a seasoned destroyer. This disc has nice fade and you can put some power into it with out having to put a ton of hyzer on it. This makes it more controllable when you need to lean on the disc to get it to where you want it. I can not wait to see how this does in the wind. The other two colors no comparison and a different disc slot in my opinion.

Katana – I did just a limited comparison with the katana (So only field work comparisons). As far as Max distance on a line drive I was able to put the katana within 20 feet of the cannon (RHBH). Max distance S – Curve I put the katana within 10 to 15 feet of the cannon (RHBH).

Havoc – The Cannon was more stable then the Havoc out of the box and had the added bonus of not losing 20 percent of its stability when the flashing wears off (Cannons had no flashing on the bottom of the discs).


The big question that needs to be answered is how this disc performs in mild wind 10 – 15 mph.

Cheers - Koffee
 
Thanks Koffee for the great review. You got me by a few feet but otherwise it looks like the distance you were throwing are in my ball park. I just purchased a yellow one and am anxious to try it. With the winter months now upon us and snow definitely cutting into my footwork, I am willing to look at anything that is easy, controllable, and not squirrelly considering more power is going to have to be generated by the upper body.

Recently I have been toying with the VIP Sword and King as my main drivers combo. Sword for maximum controlled distance and the King for open field maximum distance. It sounds like the Canon would fall between them stability wise but with greater distance potential.

Next year I will be working on a roller and had just bought an ESP Nuke SS to work on it with. However, I feel it might be too understable and stand up and over too quickly. From your Joe's flight comparison it sounds like the Canon will turn over so it can get down for a roller but not flip over and roll to the right on me.
 
Thanks Koffee for the great review. You got me by a few feet but otherwise it looks like the distance you were throwing are in my ball park. I just purchased a yellow one and am anxious to try it. With the winter months now upon us and snow definitely cutting into my footwork, I am willing to look at anything that is easy, controllable, and not squirrelly considering more power is going to have to be generated by the upper body.

Recently I have been toying with the VIP Sword and King as my main drivers combo. Sword for maximum controlled distance and the King for open field maximum distance. It sounds like the Canon would fall between them stability wise but with greater distance potential.

Next year I will be working on a roller and had just bought an ESP Nuke SS to work on it with. However, I feel it might be too understable and stand up and over too quickly. From your Joe's flight comparison it sounds like the Canon will turn over so it can get down for a roller but not flip over and roll to the right on me.

Ohh my distance well it is in the field so I can just push the disc as hard as I like without consequences. For me to get those max D numbers on the course takes a very open hole. I do not have the control when I try to do much over 400 and when I try I usually pay for it with a penalty stroke. Nothing like teeing it up for three :)

I really like these discs not sure my distance will improve because of them but I am getting more distance with less effort which is letting me throw these more consistently.

Cheers - Koffee
 
Great review Koffee, just think what these discs might do in warm conditions and especially with a tailwind.
 

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