Mando Consensus

[DavidSauls]

I'm not a fan of mandos, but it depends a bit on the course and rationale for the mando.

Mandos should not be used to ensure safety, particularly the safety of non-disc golfers or their property. As others have said, many players won't abide by them, and even for those who know the mando is there, it doesn't stop their erratic shot from flying into the danger area---just penalizes them if it does.

Mandos to define the route on a hole, or separate fairways, are a little different. Certainly, many casual players will ignore them---just like they ignore O.B., rules, etiquette, and even obstacles (I've seen people give themselves 20' of relief from dense underbrush). So what? For the players who respect the mandos, the course is better for them. Assuming, of course, that the mandos actually enhance the play of the holes. And if, on a casual afternoon, the casual players are trespassing on another fairway, it's not a big deal either.

Some courses don't have a lot of these casual players, anyway. Others are overrun by them.

That said, I think it's much better to design holes where obstacles and O.B. define the play, and use mandos only where there is no other choice.

And, for God's sake, only use mandos that are unambiguous.

 

[smarkquart]

brp has a few

I have no problems with those, even the Hole 10 one.

 

[smarkquart]

Hole 18 on our lower course is set up to throw down an alley with trees on either side and the road beyond the trees to the right. It is very thick on the left and blind, and the best shot is try and go down the pipe, and hope for a good lane to drive again. The good landing spot is about 280, then the hole turns hard left. When doing some maintenance we found that if you throw through the trees and go out over the road, you can hyzer the disc in a good spot, as long as you don't hit a branch. I tried three times and hit branches and was OB.

During tournament play, one player figured out the boundaries of a legal teebox and was able to actually hyzer around all the trees and land deep towards the basket.

So, now that that egg has been cracked the question is how to fix it. Do we let players hyzer around the trees and take the tunnel out of the throw, which made this hole one of the best on the course, or do we make the tree line mandatory (to a certain distance) and eliminate what I suspect will become a very safe, popular option?

Without actually seeing the specifics of this hole, would tightening the OB line, making it a higher risk versus reward to go high and over be a better option? Is hitting the trees if you attempt to go big and fail damaging the trees? If you can come up with a reason for a mando besides that players are circumventing the intention of the hole, then it is a good mando.

 

[Hampstead]

If a course has a mando then I play it. I have no problem with that. Most of the time, at least from my experience, they are there for safety reasons. In other instances I have seen them so that players don't try the high risk maybe get lost in the thorns and whatnot route.

Serious players follow the mandos, most casuals have no clue what they are. Of course, a lot of casuals have no clue about OB rules either, but that's a different thread.

 

[Steve West]

... eliminate what I suspect will become a very safe, popular option?

Just read that last phrase by itself. Why in the world would you want to eliminate a very safe, popular option?

 

[Jukeshoe]

Does anyone else find it ironic that Mando (the DGCR user) thinks mandos should be avoided at all costs?

 

[Hampstead]

Does anyone else find it ironic that Mando (the DGCR user) thinks mandos should be avoided at all costs?

When posting casually I tend to ignore him.

When I'm serious I pay attention.

 

[JC17393]

During tournament play, one player figured out the boundaries of a legal teebox and was able to actually hyzer around all the trees and land deep towards the basket.

I presume this means the tee is just a tee line (flags, markers, kickboard, whatever) and the player paced off 3 meters and threw from nearer the back. I also assume that the hyzer line isn't as clear or easy to achieve if throwing from the front of the tee area.

Seems the simplest fix is either moving the tee line forward a few feet so that taking the full 3 meters back still doesn't give a player the hyzer line. Either that or installing a more defined tee with a clearly defined back and side (cement, rubber, etc) that is under 3 meters in length in order to take the angle away. Or you could combine the two and install a permanent pad a few feet forward of the current position to really do the job.

Or if you're married to the idea of a mando, one a few feet off the front of the pad that can only be missed by attempting the hyzer line should be enough to do the job. And since you say it was a tournament player who "figured out" the hyzer line, I'd take a guess that a casual player with limited rules knowledge would even notice the possibility of the hyzer shot. Thus even they wouldn't defeat the mando by ignoring it.

 

[BrotherDave]

I assume you mean casual players...? I think in tournament play 99.8% of players pay attention to them.

Yes sir, people in general. I think a lot of people confuse casual players' inability to satisfy a mando with not caring about them. Once I became aware of what mandos are I attempted to follow them even if I was terrible, it's just something I was supposed to do and I think more people than not are observant of things than not.

Life is full of mandos that aren't enforced but society seems to hum along pretty good, right? opcorn:

 

[Dan Ensor]

I don't get too upset with them if they're for safety. Some places just don't have the space to make a mando-free course, or it would greatly harm the courses awesomeness by taking out the mando holes. However ... I don't think they should ever be used to make a hole more difficult. I agree that if it's really a safety issue, the hole should probably be moved. I'd probably have voted "avoid them at all costs" if I had read that post first.

The mandos I agree with are the temporary ones where trees are growing to replace the mando. Or to protect a part of the course (saplings). So I guess I voted right

 

[Cgkdisc]

The word "Mando" and "Safety" should not be in the same sentence except this one.

 

[Tenacious EJ]

I appreciate a good, well-placed, well-thought out mando, but I feel many are unnecessary.

 

[DSmith]

Putting up mandos for safety reasons is poor design because they are just going to be ignored except in a tournament. Using them for funzies to create a unique fairway is ok as long as it isnt overused.

 

[bdodson]

Without actually seeing the specifics of this hole, would tightening the OB line, making it a higher risk versus reward to go high and over be a better option? Is hitting the trees if you attempt to go big and fail damaging the trees? If you can come up with a reason for a mando besides that players are circumventing the intention of the hole, then it is a good mando.

Ill take some pictures. there is no existing mando. there could be damage to the trees as there are any time a disc hits one but significance of the damage is relative to the person....


the orinal intended lane is a slow dog leg to the right, with an abrupt left hand turn. it will take two good shots to be birdie putting. the hyzer bomb over the road takes away the first GOOD shot

Just read that last phrase by itself. Why in the world would you want to eliminate a very safe, popular option?

not sure that i would, except we designed the hole to go a certain way and now there is a way around that some players feel will make the hole too easy

 

[bdodson]

I presume this means the tee is just a tee line (flags, markers, kickboard, whatever) and the player paced off 3 meters and threw from nearer the back. I also assume that the hyzer line isn't as clear or easy to achieve if throwing from the front of the tee area.

Seems the simplest fix is either moving the tee line forward a few feet so that taking the full 3 meters back still doesn't give a player the hyzer line. Either that or installing a more defined tee with a clearly defined back and side (cement, rubber, etc) that is under 3 meters in length in order to take the angle away. Or you could combine the two and install a permanent pad a few feet forward of the current position to really do the job.

Or if you're married to the idea of a mando, one a few feet off the front of the pad that can only be missed by attempting the hyzer line should be enough to do the job. And since you say it was a tournament player who "figured out" the hyzer line, I'd take a guess that a casual player with limited rules knowledge would even notice the possibility of the hyzer shot. Thus even they wouldn't defeat the mando by ignoring it.

the course right now is temporary and only used in tournament play so we dont have to worry too much about it being ignored by the general public. and all of the solutions would work but just not sure how to proceed

plus right now the teebox is off a parking lot and moving it up would put in on rough footing.....

 

[1978]

Mando's they should be used in 3 instances.
1. reduce cutting of fairway through cheater gaps - the less of these the better
2. reprieve for extremely errant shots...cheaper and easier to maintain then OB... Used in conjuntion with #1 above. Mando should be so far out of the way that it is missed only because someone tried to miss it.
3. direct shots in an otherwise lacking fairway. Nevin #14
4. Temporary to train golfers while other directional are being developed. (Stumpy Creek #17 Mando was used while waiting for a treeline to be planted.

Should not be used
1. For safety - most players dont care about Mando's. They do almost nothing for safety. Course should be naturally planned for safety.
2. as an unnatural bend or turn in a fairway. (Stumpy #17 see #4 above. Mando should be meant to be temporary.
3. when they arent visible from the tee box/last landing zone (Hornets Nest #16Web)

 

[mbressler13]

Seems like the mandos put in place on my local courses are put in for the safety of other disc golfers on the course. I have yet to see a course where there is a mando just to have a mando.

 

[1978]

Seems like the mandos put in place on my local courses are put in for the safety of other disc golfers on the course. I have yet to see a course where there is a mando just to have a mando.

Ask and ye' shall receive. Also the angled tree that looks like it coming out of the players head is ANOTHER mando. Thats a triple Mando right there, absolutly no safety concerns.

 

[jrawk]

if mandos are played by casual golfers like retrievable OB around here, then no, the casual golfers do not observe mando's either.

 

[bhadella]

3. direct shots in an otherwise lacking fairway. Nevin #14

I thought #14s Mando was to screw with us lefties.....