Nikko LoCastro intimidating a PDGA official at European Open '22

[edmunder]

Paul looks like a real idiot here to say the least. The whole point has been - everyone knew this would happen sooner or later when Nikko was confronted. So it happened and now its the PDGA official's fault?

Who on Earth wants to play with Paul - he will side with Nikko trying to start a fight and screaming at a PDGA official. I mean imagine now trying to be a player on Paul's card when some guy breaks a rule. Paul is going to stick up maniacs and vote against you. So essentially - Paul doesnt want any rules in disc golf. I dont think its too far to say that.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Lastly, McBeth's take on this situation is absolutely awful! I only see a fraction of the big picture, but I'm surprised by his position. I too would have imagined his advocacy for a more professional environment...

I believe this speaks for a boatload of those who follow the sport's best players.

 

[CaptainAnhyzer]

Watch in 9 months, Discraft announces that they're sponsoring Nikko

 

[art_vandelay]

There's something I'm a little fuzzy on from this situation. To echo Nikko, WHY exactly did he get called then and there for time? Who got a bug up their butt to initiate the chain of events that led to what happened. Was he targeted for some reason and why? I'm still trying to figure out what Paul knows that the rest of us don't that would cause him to take the position he did. Was Nikko made an example of? Did the PDGA tell the local official to watch out for Nikko? I'm honestly confused by some of this.

 

[Rastnav]

Pretty much the same as his reaction to the Brad Williams stuff, he's a one man player's union. FWIW I can see Nikko getting the Class C offense as well. He's getting off light on the suspension time either way though so I don't see much for anyone to complain about in that sense.

I agree that Paul seems to be advocating for players, but not just for players, but for clarity and transparency in what the rules mean. In particular, that this was classified as a class A offense doesn't seem to me to be consistent with the overall tenor of the written rule. Specifically, everything about the rule either states outright that it is for intended for actions that cause physical harm or implies that it is limited to credibly threats of physical harm. I personally don't think that describes what Nikko did. At least not what we saw on video. Yes, you can apply a definition of the word "intimidation" to what Nikko did, but it doesn't seem to be the definition intended by the wording of the rule, when intimidation is put next to stalking.

The spin Paul puts on things doesn't really make sense to me, and it doesn't comport with what we all saw. It seems more like a rationalization on his part to attempt to justify his stance, and does make him look like he actually payed attention to why Nikko was suffering repercussions.

As to the points being brought about professionalism, it seems to me that having strong protections for the actual professional players, who make their living off of playing the sport, is part of professionalism. That's something that will come, assuming disc golf continues to grow, but it won't come without high profile players pushing for it. That doesn't mean Nikko's conduct should/would be accepted, and I'd hope that Paul doesn't think it's acceptable.

 

[Golden Tuna]

I am not surprised by this from Paul - in part because of what so many have shared regarding his reaction to the Bradley Williams situation. It is clear that Paul sees himself as a players advocate. I just think he needs a team to support him on this stuff - he could easily argue for a shorter suspension/probation period for Nikko without trying to completely re-tell the story of what we all saw. Paul was a master of saying nothing and going about his business for a long time, he didn't even say too much when he was posting here from what I've skimmed (I wasn't active here at the time), and its kinda looking like maybe that was the right avenue for him unless he is willing to hire some support to help guide how he presents his thoughts. Not someone to paint him as someone different, or to neuter his views, just support.

I appreciate that Paul is trying to do as an advocate for the players. We should absolutely commend Paul McBeth for the way he feels about standing up for others on the tour. He could just say nothing, because frankly he's clearly not someone who is going to run afoul of these same rules. He's out there making sure that whatever happens going forward, the players get a clear and fair shake. Even if most of us feel the suspension was appropriate or even too short - Paul is out there as a voice for the rest pushing to avoid the development of what maybe we would all see as overreach.

Qualitative content doesn't seem to be prioritized in the world of social media. I think timeliness, and sharing your opinion are (seen as) higher priority than having something meaningful to say. Pretty sad state of affairs but that's the world we live in.

I'm all for Paul sticking up for the players. But. He's gonna have to do so using actual facts. I don't think he watched the same video clip I did...

Just quoting to emphasize what a great point this was!

I believe this speaks for a boatload of those who follow the sport's best players.

I mean, we should all kinda demand better. But, that's the rub of a self-officiated sport. The people that follow the rules expect other will do the same. The ones that don't follow the rules couldn't care less about those who do, and get butt hurt when they're expected to follow the rules of the game. I doubt anything will change until players find the courage to call their card mates on infractions.

As an aside, I find it mildly ironic how much players of officiated sports (football, baseball, basketball, hockey, soccer, etc.) want to officiate, yet we play a sport where officiating is part of our code/ethics/rules and no one wants to do it...

 

[elmexdela]

when will the extra footage be leaked

 

[Rastnav]

There's something I'm a little fuzzy on from this situation. To echo Nikko, WHY exactly did he get called then and there for time? Who got a bug up their butt to initiate the chain of events that led to what happened. Was he targeted for some reason and why? I'm still trying to figure out what Paul knows that the rest of us don't that would cause him to take the position he did. Was Nikko made an example of? Did the PDGA tell the local official to watch out for Nikko? I'm honestly confused by some of this.

Apparently the first link in the chain of events was, if I understand correctly, a card member complaint about slow play earlier in the round on two players on the card. Thereafter both players were monitored.

I also think it's significant that this occurred in Europe. Different locales have different approaches and customs.

 

[ru4por]

There's something I'm a little fuzzy on from this situation. To echo Nikko, WHY exactly did he get called then and there for time? Who got a bug up their butt to initiate the chain of events that led to what happened. Was he targeted for some reason and why? I'm still trying to figure out what Paul knows that the rest of us don't that would cause him to take the position he did. Was Nikko made an example of? Did the PDGA tell the local official to watch out for Nikko? I'm honestly confused by some of this.

Sigh..... because he was going to get called sometime/somewhere.

Likely officials tired of hearing complaints of slow play about the same player, again and again.

All are welcome to delve into the plethora of obscure conspiracy theories, but it simply is not that complicated. He is notorious for violations of the time rule on simple putts. Over and over. He is not a victim, he is a chronic violator.

 

[Golden Tuna]

There's something I'm a little fuzzy on from this situation. To echo Nikko, WHY exactly did he get called then and there for time? Who got a bug up their butt to initiate the chain of events that led to what happened. Was he targeted for some reason and why? I'm still trying to figure out what Paul knows that the rest of us don't that would cause him to take the position he did. Was Nikko made an example of? Did the PDGA tell the local official to watch out for Nikko? I'm honestly confused by some of this.

There is a whole world of passive aggressive softies in our sport who will never call an infraction in a group, but will whisper about it in the corner until they're blue in the face.

This is purely conjecture, but I'd guess Nikko routinely extended his clock throughout the round and one (or more) of these scenarios took place.
- A card mate could have notified a volunteer or TD.
- Someone on the card behind them could have complained about backups and timing.
- A spotter could've offered the info to a TD when they were checking in or taking a break.

Regardless, of the source, I think someone asked for Nikko's time to be watched, so tournament staff complied, identified an infraction, and tried to handle on site.

We don't really know if that the 1st or the 9th time he was not in compliance with the rules. So, we're only left with what we see on the clip. Even in the clip (I think) it's pretty clear, but I do not know the extenuating circumstances that led to that moent...

 

[Flick Maniac]

I heard it was a card behind them. Cant confrim though.

A spotter should steer way clear of things like this so I dont think its that.

Interesting also that it happened halfway of the last hole. In an alternate universe, he finished the round, was told complaints were made and he would be clocked next round if he keeps it up, and we wouldnt have all this circus. Not saying it should have gone down like that, just that it could have. I like circus.

 

[Dingus]

I get the impression he hates the PDGA which is pretty rich considering the PDGA is the means by which Mr McBeth was able to buy a McClaren. And I do not buy this nonsense argument that the official did this or that wrong. That's irrelevant. Does not justify Nikkos behavior at all. Paul just sounds like a tool in this post.

He sounds like someone that will try to organize a disc golf players union.

I have no idea what it is like to tour at that level, and neither do any of the keyboard warriors on this forum. If Paul says it was unwarranted I will take that as the authority position, and disregard random internet opinions to the contrary.

 

[DanJon]

There's something I'm a little fuzzy on from this situation. To echo Nikko, WHY exactly did he get called then and there for time? Who got a bug up their butt to initiate the chain of events that led to what happened. Was he targeted for some reason and why? I'm still trying to figure out what Paul knows that the rest of us don't that would cause him to take the position he did. Was Nikko made an example of? Did the PDGA tell the local official to watch out for Nikko? I'm honestly confused by some of this.

Both Nikko and Chandler Kramer had gotten time warnings earlier in the round.

So, not really "targeting", so much as paying attention to.

 

[dmoore1998]

I agree with Paul that calling this "intimidation" based on the general tone of a Class A offense might not be correct. That said, he didn't get the 24 month "standard" Class A offense penalty.

Most of us I think argued it should be a Class A under "intimidation" though Class A primarily seems to speak to actual physical harm. Or he should get a Class C offense which comes with 6 months of standard suspension (and up to 1 year with aggravating factors).

Whether you think the standard suspension times are fair or not aside...he was deemed to have committed a Class A offense, and then given less than 1/2 of the standard Class A offense. He received more than a standard Class C...which seems pretty well in line with the action (6 months plus aggravating factors of another 3 months).

All in all, whether you think it should have been a Class A or a Class C...he got off pretty light based on the actual rules. Once you consider he was labeled as a Class A offender...he got off REALLY light (but I think the end result is a pretty fair middle ground based on the class standards listed).

 

[ru4por]

He sounds like someone that will try to organize a disc golf players union.

I have no idea what it is like to tour at that level, and neither do any of the keyboard warriors on this forum. If Paul says it was unwarranted I will take that as the authority position, and disregard random internet opinions to the contrary.

As the players should. They should organize and demand more from the tour they are a huge part of. They should carefully look at the PGA model and steal the best parts. That way all hundreds of them can see better success.....and the other 99.9% of disc golfers can focus on growing the sport.

Blindly taking the word of others, is dangerous and holds little interest for me. Critical thinking, observation, use of experience are terrific life tools. I am able to watch the video and see (without McBeth's professional disc golf skills) that Locastro's behavior was abhorrent.

 

[Dingus]

Blindly taking the word of others, is dangerous and holds little interest for me. Critical thinking, observation, use of experience are terrific life tools. I am able to watch the video and see (without McBeth's professional disc golf skills) that Locastro's behavior was abhorrent.

What makes your critical thinking on this subject any more reliable than the critical thinking done by anti vaxxers? You don't know what it is like to be in Paul's or Nikko's position, you saw a minute worth of the hours of context, and now you are saying you can ignore authority figures because you can watch a youtube video? I wonder what else you would tell me you learned on a youtube video.

 

[txmxer]

Nikko said he f'd up. That should about cover the issue of whether his behavior was inappropriate.

 

[dmoore1998]

He sounds like someone that will try to organize a disc golf players union.

I have no idea what it is like to tour at that level, and neither do any of the keyboard warriors on this forum. If Paul says it was unwarranted I will take that as the authority position, and disregard random internet opinions to the contrary.

I would argue Paul's position is a random player position. He's in no position of authority on the matter. These aren't pro tour rules, they are rules every player in a PDGA tournament is subject to. He holds no special place to evaluate them.

He also wasn't standing there to give us more information...he's just recapping the video we've all seen...and recapping it sort of poorly.

That said, I agree with his disposition that a Class A offense here seems...harsh. And coming from his perspective, he's likely doing it for self-serving reasons...he doesn't want to end up yelling at an official and worry that he's going to lose 2 years of his livelihood in the process. Or that impermissible use of alcohol will lead to a 6 month suspension. This is likely one of the few high-profile moments he may have to shine a light on something he believes is ridiculous (suspension times in general) and may have just done a poor job highlighting that stance. This seems to be an ongoing theme with him (I believe he was concerned about length of time in the Bradley Williams case as well). His take seems to lean towards justifying the behavior though...as opposed to clearly outlining he just thinks the entire code is overkill (which IMO it is).

 

[RistoS]

Interesting also that it happened halfway of the last hole. In an alternate universe, he finished the round, was told complaints were made and he would be clocked next round if he keeps it up, and we wouldnt have all this circus.

You can hear Mr. Verl say "before this round" in the clip, so the group was likely told already before teeing off they were being timed.

 

[dmoore1998]

Interesting also that it happened halfway of the last hole. In an alternate universe, he finished the round, was told complaints were made and he would be clocked next round if he keeps it up, and we wouldnt have all this circus. Not saying it should have gone down like that, just that it could have. I like circus.

If he was clocked next round you don't think we'd have this circus though? They'd already been warned and then clocked more than half a round and he hadn't sped up.

I argued earlier in the thread this was about the perfect time to penalize him in Nikko's own best interest. If he penalized him earlier, Nikko probably blows up and ruins his round. He gives him the majority of a round to rectify it and that doesn't happen, and then gives him a penalty at the very end where he can't go bananas and ruin his entire round ranting and raving and fixating.

Halfway through the last hole is the absolute BEST outcome for Nikko without just totally ignoring that he refused to speed up after being warned. It's the time in the round that's least likely to cause him a significant impact to his score.