[Discraft] P McB Proto- THE KONG...er, um...THE ZEUS!

[doth_savek]

I put together a review of the Kong and comparison against the Wysocki Destroyers.
this might help some of you. Let me know what you think, Thanks!

https://youtu.be/Aj7TgkSO550

 

[Jolt]

Nice work:thmbup: but it's really scary how different individual disc fly

For someone like me that buy-and-try lots of disc it's more like a lottery to get a "good one"

 

[jmatthews7157]

My Kong proto is roughly halfway between a board on top and a poppy D2. Definitely not poppy though, not even a little. The glide this disc has is extraordinary. Under a crushing flat nose angle and a little anny wrist it will fly a very tight flex that provides impressive accuracy left to right without relinquishing distance to get it. Think 400+ wooded hallway.
My wing is akin to a pregnant 4x destroyer but with a tiny bit of light penetrating at the very center of the straight edge. Very similar wing shape to a D2.
This driver is my current go to for really long drives that need to stay inside of 100' in fade/skip and require a low ceiling. I'm happy with the purchase.
Whomever at Discraft did the demand curve projection and market equilibrium graphs prior to release could have done a better job. It's likely that they are losing sales due to short supply driving prices, and it's not Discraft who is cashing in on the market shortage.
I personally find it tough to fork out more than $18 for a new disc.
Another comment/ peeve of mine is purchasing over the internet. There is enough variance in the final product of all deep drivers to warrant either a meaningful description of the wing and flight plate with photographs or a REALLY comprehensive set of photographs using props like straight edges against the wing and protractor walls to identify wing split angles.
This was the absolute last driver I will ever purchase for more than 10 bucks without putting my hands on it first. It's REALLY hard to put 5 or 6 of these discs in your hand in order to make a selection for a $20+ spend.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[tomsdiscs]

I put together a review of the Kong and comparison against the Wysocki Destroyers.
this might help some of you. Let me know what you think, Thanks!

https://youtu.be/Aj7TgkSO550

My experience with Kongs is pretty much spot on with Doth Savek, the Kongs consistently scale higher than the marked weight, significant variance in dome, and really do not have the distance potential to challenge a Boss/Destroyer.

My theory, which has no scientific studies backing it, is that the Kong's stiff plastic will not rotate as much or as fast, so the disc will not fly as far. My theory was helped today by the heat, it was 85, which is very hot for where I live, and all my discs were warm and soft, especially my Champion TL3, it was basically Gstar in the heat, but back to the Kong - the heat softened it up and it did fly farther today than normal, and I did use it on several holes and consistently noticed the improvement in distance, but still did not come close to the Boss which is my main distance driver. The Bosses are all seasoned though.

 

[Sydex]

My theory, which has no scientific studies backing it, is that the Kong's stiff plastic will not rotate as much or as fast, so the disc will not fly as far. My theory was helped today by the heat, it was 85, which is very hot for where I live, and all my discs were warm and soft, especially my Champion TL3, it was basically Gstar in the heat, but back to the Kong - the heat softened it up and it did fly farther today than normal, and I did use it on several holes and consistently noticed the improvement in distance, but still did not come close to the Boss which is my main distance driver. The Bosses are all seasoned though.

I said a similar thing once on Reddit and was down-voted to an oblivion. I grabbed most of my info from a material science guy who posted about injection molding with plastics. Basically, my theory is (and backed up by tossing discs in a sandy field) discs lose structural integrity as polymers slowly degrade making the discs glide easier through the wind and making them less stable. Also, all my soft Star Thunderbirds aren't nearly as stable as that run they did with the super stiff ones.

However, I do get ~400' with my Kong now. I wouldn't say it's particularly soft, or hard. But didn't somebody say in this thread they did tweak some stuff between the runs of Kongs already? Maybe I'm mis-remembering.

 

[Shankski]

The weather conditions are what changes the flight. Not because the discs are softer. Discs glide farther and are less flippy in the heat. Cold weather makes everything more understable

 

[Silver Rider]

I put together a review of the Kong and comparison against the Wysocki Destroyers.
this might help some of you. Let me know what you think, Thanks!

https://youtu.be/Aj7TgkSO550

Thank you for doing this, i agree the kong isnt as easy distance as the destroyer but thats not what (or who) it was designed for.

for my 470'+ of arm speed the Kong gives a perfect slight flex line thats more reliable than a destroyer, for a competitive player in a tournament (like McBeth), the kong will be a more desirable flight because you can trust it more. it may go 20' less distance but its going to be more predictable. I'd rather thrown a kong 20' short of the basket than throw a destroyer that flips over and lands 40' to the right of the basket!

 

[Twmccoy]

Maybe I'll pull my Kong back out now that its hot here and see if that really makes a difference in flight.

My Kong flies like a super overstable McBeth star Destroyer. That said, McBeth star Destroyers are usually made of gummy, almost floppy plastic. They still have lousy flight characteristics at times. Very overstable with little glide.

 

[SD86]

My experience with Kongs is pretty much spot on with Doth Savek, the Kongs consistently scale higher than the marked weight, significant variance in dome, and really do not have the distance potential to challenge a Boss/Destroyer.

My theory, which has no scientific studies backing it, is that the Kong's stiff plastic will not rotate as much or as fast, so the disc will not fly as far. My theory was helped today by the heat, it was 85, which is very hot for where I live, and all my discs were warm and soft, especially my Champion TL3, it was basically Gstar in the heat, but back to the Kong - the heat softened it up and it did fly farther today than normal, and I did use it on several holes and consistently noticed the improvement in distance, but still did not come close to the Boss which is my main distance driver. The Bosses are all seasoned though.

I said a similar thing once on Reddit and was down-voted to an oblivion. I grabbed most of my info from a material science guy who posted about injection molding with plastics. Basically, my theory is (and backed up by tossing discs in a sandy field) discs lose structural integrity as polymers slowly degrade making the discs glide easier through the wind and making them less stable. Also, all my soft Star Thunderbirds aren't nearly as stable as that run they did with the super stiff ones.

However, I do get ~400' with my Kong now. I wouldn't say it's particularly soft, or hard. But didn't somebody say in this thread they did tweak some stuff between the runs of Kongs already? Maybe I'm mis-remembering.

The weather conditions are what changes the flight. Not because the discs are softer. Discs glide farther and are less flippy in the heat. Cold weather makes everything more understable

Shankski is closest to the truth. Heat will make discs feel softer (especially GStar), but when it comes to flight, all discs will fly farther in warmer air (all else being equal) due to less drag from the less dense air. So the warm air is the likeliest culprit in tomsdisc's Kong getting more distance during that round. opcorn:

 

[Sydex]

Shankski is closest to the truth. Heat will make discs feel softer (especially GStar), but when it comes to flight, all discs will fly farther in warmer air (all else being equal) due to less drag from the less dense air. So the warm air is the likeliest culprit in tomsdisc's Kong getting more distance during that round. opcorn:

I'm from Texas and only really go out to play when it's between 80 - 95 F. Humidity is always a factor too. So all my throwing is done in relatively similar conditions. Mostly, what I was getting at was how a disc beats and changes flight. It was in response to some guy claiming discs became less stable by getting dings on the leading edge. Something that everybody who has ever thrown premium plastic knows is false.

Actually according to Innova, GStar will change the least whereas Champ changes the most. I've experienced this myself and don't throw Champ when temperatures are above 95F. GStar stays in the bag though. https://www.innovadiscs.com/home/disc-golf-faq/plastic-types-overview/ and there's also a chart published by Innova which shows GStar retains a relatively stable stiffness, but at the moment I'm having issues finding it.

 

[Twmccoy]

The weather conditions are what changes the flight. Not because the discs are softer. Discs glide farther and are less flippy in the heat. Cold weather makes everything more understable

I've had the opposite results. I feel like discs fly way more understable in the heat, and glide great.

When I throw in the cold, everything seems ultra beefy and glideless. I bet some of this can be attributed to being stiff and not getting the best grip on the disc.

All my best distance comes during the summer.

 

[tomsdiscs]

Air density vs. temperature is well established science, the warmer the air, the less dense the air, easier to fly through, but it is incomplete science to say that wholly accounts for the deltas.

Warmer air will have an impact on the disc material, and I still stick with my theory about it loosening up the Kong, it is like a quick temporary seasoning of the disc, as contrasted to Sydex's reference to the normal course of seasoning the disc material over time.

Imagine throwing a disc made of titanium (not Discraft Titanium !), no discernible flex at all, so too hard to impart forward thrust and rotation, so it will not go far, we need softer materials that support the forward thrust with rotation. Without sustained rotation, things do not fly as far (absent some power source), that is why baseballs have seams, golf balls have dimples, footballs have laces, basketballs have grooves, volleyballs, etc.

I do agree with Silver Rider, Kong is a good control disc (as I have posted before on these threads), but not ideal for most players, you need to have good arm speed/timing/angle of release control to get the benefits. As I have been throwing it alongside the Boss and Destroyer, the Kong is shorter, but more often best centered in the fairway. But that is in reference to the more stable Kongs, the flippier ones can get squirrelly, especially in windier conditions.

 

[Sydex]

Took out a 173g Kong today and threw it alongside a 168 4x Destroyer. Kong is brand new and 4x is probably 7/10.

Kong was getting a full flight when thrown flat and travelled roughly 400' (377' - 416' UDisc measurement ranges). 4x was closer to the 380' range (373' - 392' UDisc range) with zero turn.. Threw each on seven of the long holes my local course has.

Kong was easier to throw but wind did make it look scary.

 

[Silver Rider]

Took out a 173g Kong today and threw it alongside a 168 4x Destroyer. Kong is brand new and 4x is probably 7/10.

Kong was getting a full flight when thrown flat and travelled roughly 400' (377' - 416' UDisc measurement ranges). 4x was closer to the 380' range (373' - 392' UDisc range) with zero turn.. Threw each on seven of the long holes my local course has.

Kong was easier to throw but wind did make it look scary.

i take it your Kong is flatter on top?

 

[Sydex]

i take it your Kong is flatter on top?

Yes, it's what I'd consider a flat top Kong. The 4x was pretty average in dome and has the x-wing.

 

[Titan037]

Not that it matters much, but the Kong, is now Zeus

 

[SD86]

Just a quick anecdote: I was watching the FPO coverage of the Ledgestone tournament, and some of the Discraft-sponsored ladies were throwing Kongs. Kind of reminded me of Innova-sponsored ladies throwing Shrykes and Trilogy-sponsored ladies throwing Ballista Pros and Sheriffs and such...

 

[Jkosk]

Not that it matters much, but the Kong, is now Zeus

Fits in much better with the other model names he has put forth.

 

[Jolt]

Was it not PDGA approved as the "KONG" can they change the name just like that?

 

[Titan037]

Was it not PDGA approved as the "KONG" can they change the name just like that?

Yeah, its the same mold, nothing has changed physically, it just needs to be updated with the new name in the system