PDGA Updates Gender Policy

[Carolina Crushers]

"Nova P.......This was good science fifty or sixty years ago, but through study we have learned since then that it's vastly more complicated than that.
Funny you should say that, as there is significant evidence that one is born transgender, due to the effects on development in the womb of the timing of the delivery of various hormones to the developing fetus."


CALL ME when a Man turns into a Trans-Gender Woman gives birth! After-all according to you, "my logic" is based on 50 or sixty year old science. LOL. My logic is based on not how one might feel, but what equipment one might have. Penis or Vagina. I don't care how one "feels". We live in a world of entiltled butt-hurt babies. Thus creating you!

Woman's division should be played by actual woman, not men who feel like woman. Period.

 

[biscoe]

For what it is worth trans women have been competing in gender protected divisions for years in disc golf to no apparent ill effect.

 

[Halcón]

For what it is worth trans women have been competing in gender protected divisions for years in disc golf to no apparent ill effect.

Yea, I was going to ask this, as I assumed this was the case. People don't care until they start losing. (And that goes for any competition, in general)

 

[Casey 1988]

Casey's alternate facts strike again! She was not from India or Pakistan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caster_Semenya

and.... In before the Landfill

No she was from a country like that but I forgot what one anyhow.

PS do not let this post go to landfill.

 

[Casey 1988]

I hope that this is not the woman he was thinking of, because she is not transgender but hyperandrogenous, meaning she naturally has elevated testosterone levels due to genetic variation. Completely different scenarios that I would hope people can wrap their head around.

Thanks, I had 100% forgotten the whole story since 2012 becuse of how the wold and how is now compired to back then how everything including sports seems to have a major potical view to it no matter the country. I knew her natural Testoereone was inolved and a main reason why the Olympic commite had to change the rules.

 

[Casey 1988]

Its an interesting topic to talk about. Personally I don't believe any person that is born as a male and wants to transition into a female should be able to compete in a protected division such as FPO. Doesn't matter if they have the appropriate hormone levels. They still have muscle built from being a male for the majority of their life. This would give them an advantage over 99% of female disc golfers.

Yes I agree, it seems an unfair advantage in any sport even ones where a person can't get a whole ton of money to compete like disc golf. It almost seems that there needs to be Transgender/Cisgender for the gender protected devions for the top levels in these sports offered like Golf and Disc Golf and the rest of them so as to not make it unfair. Also feel we are getting to sensitve to these issues about how the people compete but at the same time we need to make it fair for these people to compeat.

We just had in a team win a lower level South Dakota state title in Basketball due to having a person who is Male To Female Transgender and she is not able due to state law take hormones until 18...18! Yeah also not allowed to take a homone blocker until in mid teens some so even if this kid/teen wanted to be female since before they hit puberty they could not allow it in South Dakota due to newer laws put in place in the mid 2010's as South Dakpota is backwards on these issues.

 

[Orioles_Lefty]

Reading this thread was a good reminder that all that is needed to post on the Internet is an internet connection and an opinion.

 

[Nova P]

I've been out playing disc golf today from dawn to dusk, so I haven't had the time to comment here. Fortunately the serious points are being discussed in a pretty even-handed manner, and the stupid points are going without further comment, which is all that they deserve.

Honestly I was expecting worse, so yay progress?

 

[XC_Eddy]

How about everyone just play their rating and not care what's in each others Underoos or on their birthday cake?
Gold 970+
Blue <970
White <935
Red <900
Green <850
Purple <800

So you're proposing we get rid of all protected divisions? Get rid of all juniors, masters+ divisions, and all F divisions? Good luck with that. And is the reasoning just fear of a woman who had gender reassignment surgery doing well in FPO? A thing that has definitely not happened.

Congratulations all good masters players, female players, and juniors, the best of you are now playing against weekend warrior intermediates instead of one another. The division protections exist for a reason.

 

[teemkey]

..., so yay progress?

Todd?

 

[Nova P]

Originally Posted by Nova P:
You know what really prevents gender sandbagging, not just in disc golf but in any sport?

The notion that a man would voluntarily transition to female, live as female pretty much forever, go through the medical hassle of hormone therapy, watching his (deleted) shrivel up like a Vienna sausage and a pair of old raisins, growing breasts, having to go through the hassle of changing his legal documentation with dozens or hundreds of companies and government agencies, and immediately joining the ranks of one of the single most despised and discriminated-against minorities, being a social pariah, facing ostracization from his peers and family, and all that. . .

Just to win some disc golf trophies.

Yeah no. There's a reason gender sandbagging isn't a thing. The boogey-man (no pun intended) of some guy just dropping everything and playing as a woman for the lols falls apart with more than a moment's casual thought.

Not picking on you, Chuck, just running with the topic since you mentioned it.

What if they did all that for other reasons, and THEN they discovered disc golf?

I don't think anyone replied to you in like three pages and a dozen hours, and that's too bad because I think it's a good question.

If that happened, they would play disc golf in their gender at the time they joined our sport, provided that they meet the requirements in the PDGA policy. If someone questioned their eligibility, they could contact the Medical Committee and ask if the player is playing in the right division. The Committee, mindful of the privacy of the player, would simply affirm that the player is qualified to play in the division in question if this were so, or investigate further.

I had a long E-correspondence with a member of the Board and of the Medical Committee the other day, and they told me that (I am paraphrasing here) that the Committee thinks that the scary scenario of the "casual transitioner to another gender for EASY SPORTING DOMINANACE RAR boogey-man" is a fanciful one, and that players are assumed to be declaring their gender in good faith.

I am inclined to agree with that position.

Shifting slightly to the side, fear is a powerful motivator for people, particularly fear of a misunderstood minority who wield little power. In recent years, fear of fanciful situations has been used to whip up antagonism against transgender people, for example the "fear" of transgender people peeing and pooping in the "wrong" bathrooms and molesting people, despite the fact that more United States Senators and Representatives have been arrested for misconduct in public bathrooms than transgender people, and here the "fear" of some deranged man voluntarily turning his life upside-down and going through astonishing physical punishment, social ostracization, loss of identity, and so on just to win some sports games.

In both cases, the fear of an imaginary miscreant is used to justify laws or policies that hurt transgender people by denying their legitimacy as people, their chosen and lived gender, and setting them aside as scary monsters, and accomplishes no good.

 

[Nova P]

Todd?

I don't know this reference.

 

[XC_Eddy]

I've been out playing disc golf today from dawn to dusk, so I haven't had the time to comment here. Fortunately the serious points are being discussed in a pretty even-handed manner, and the stupid points are going without further comment, which is all that they deserve.

Honestly I was expecting worse, so yay progress?

This conversation has gone so much better than I expected it to. Pretty much the points I expected people to make, but levelheaded for a charged topic. Not as much internet shouting here as you see on the facebooks, twitters, instantgrams, and youtubes People have got really strong opinions about trans people.

I'll be honest, it still weirds me out a bit. Having known a few people who have transitioned has made it a little less weird, but still a little. Oh, Brittany is Brett now, that's going to take some getting used to. l grew up with someone who transitioned to female within the last couple years in her mid 20s. I don't know details, but the little I do know is that it's been really hard for her and her family. They've had a really tough time accepting her. I've seen enough people get ostracized by loved ones and communities to be convinced that this is more than just some choice people are making.

It still weirds me out a little bit. I don't get it. I probably never will because it's definitely not the shoes I'm wearing. Definitely takes some getting used to. But hey, trans people aren't hurting me any. The least I can do is not be a dick about it. Be who you think you were created to be.

 

[Orioles_Lefty]

Like, a billion zillion times over.

I don't think anyone replied to you in like three pages and a dozen hours, and that's too bad because I think it's a good question.

If that happened, they would play disc golf in their gender at the time they joined our sport, provided that they meet the requirements in the PDGA policy. If someone questioned their eligibility, they could contact the Medical Committee and ask if the player is playing in the right division. The Committee, mindful of the privacy of the player, would simply affirm that the player is qualified to play in the division in question if this were so, or investigate further.

I had a long E-correspondence with a member of the Board and of the Medical Committee the other day, and they told me that (I am paraphrasing here) that the Committee thinks that the scary scenario of the "casual transitioner to another gender for EASY SPORTING DOMINANACE RAR boogey-man" is a fanciful one, and that players are assumed to be declaring their gender in good faith.

I am inclined to agree with that position.

Shifting slightly to the side, fear is a powerful motivator for people, particularly fear of a misunderstood minority who wield little power. In recent years, fear of fanciful situations has been used to whip up antagonism against transgender people, for example the "fear" of transgender people peeing and pooping in the "wrong" bathrooms and molesting people, despite the fact that more United States Senators and Representatives have been arrested for misconduct in public bathrooms than transgender people, and here the "fear" of some deranged man voluntarily turning his life upside-down and going through astonishing physical punishment, social ostracization, loss of identity, and so on just to win some sports games.

In both cases, the fear of an imaginary miscreant is used to justify laws or policies that hurt transgender people by denying their legitimacy as people, their chosen and lived gender, and setting them aside as scary monsters, and accomplishes no good.

 

[Dire Wolfy]

So I could Identify as a dog now? what about species protected league?

Spoiler

I dont really think im a dog lol, i think this whole gender thing is weird.

 

[Casey 1988]

This conversation has gone so much better than I expected it to. Pretty much the points I expected people to make, but levelheaded for a charged topic. Not as much internet shouting here as you see on the facebooks, twitters, instantgrams, and youtubes People have got really strong opinions about trans people.

I'll be honest, it still weirds me out a bit. Having known a few people who have transitioned has made it a little less weird, but still a little. Oh, Brittany is Brett now, that's going to take some getting used to. l grew up with someone who transitioned to female within the last couple years in her mid 20s. I don't know details, but the little I do know is that it's been really hard for her and her family. They've had a really tough time accepting her. I've seen enough people get ostracized by loved ones and communities to be convinced that this is more than just some choice people are making.

It still weirds me out a little bit. I don't get it. I probably never will because it's definitely not the shoes I'm wearing. Definitely takes some getting used to. But hey, trans people aren't hurting me any. The least I can do is not be a dick about it. Be who you think you were created to be.

Yep, I was with a kid in elemetary school for a few months who was born Cisgender (new term for Intergender as that term now means something elce) exactly down the middle 50/50 Male and Female born and parents were treating the kid as if the kid was bott, letting the kid decide its own gender. The kid was messed up not sure whether or not it was male or female and wanted to be both the few moths the kid was in the elementary school I was. The kid was going to be doing at home schooling after those few months in which he got teased.

So I know a person in my town who is transitioning and though I did talk with them a bit, it still is a bit odd too. I try not to be a dick about it, only to those who want to make a problem of it most of those people are politician's.

 

[toddnick]

All this correctness...don't get it...

If I am born a man, that is what I am...like it or not...there is no debate...it is real...it is physically undeniable, regardless of feelings...not hard to understand really...

If I am born poor but feel rich, does that make me rich? I'm thinking no....

If I am born black but feel white, does that make me white? I'm thinking no...

If I'm born blind but feel like I can see does that make me able to see? I'm thinking no....

Etc...

This is easy...and not something that people should make you feel bad for saying....

You are who you are...no hard to figure out...regardless of feelings...

There really should be no negative reaction to this reality....right?

 

[teemkey]

I don't know this reference.

Todd Chavez is a character in Bojack Horseman. The questioning "yay" is his specialty. He's also asexual; so (tangentially) connected to this thread.

 

[XC_Eddy]

Todd Chavez is a character in Bojack Horseman. The questioning "yay" is his specialty. He's also asexual; so (tangentially) connected to this thread.

I thought you may have summoned the Todd who just commented a couple of posts ago. I was over here being like, "how did Toddnick know?"

 

[teemkey]

All this correctness...don't get it...

If I am born a man, that is what I am...like it or not...there is no debate...it is real...it is physically undeniable, regardless of feelings...not hard to understand really...

If I am born poor but feel rich, does that make me rich? I'm thinking no....

If I am born black but feel white, does that make me white? I'm thinking no...

If I'm born blind but feel like I can see does that make me able to see? I'm thinking no....

Etc...

This is easy...and not something that people should make you feel bad for saying....

You are who you are...no hard to figure out...regardless of feelings...

There really should be no negative reaction to this reality....right?

It's more like: I'm 6'11" but prefer baseball to basketball.