PDGA Updates Gender Policy

[dbanderson]

Never under estimate what a human may decide to do with their life.

 

[Nova P]

Never under estimate what a human may decide to do with their life.

If Lloyd Weema won't do it, nobody will.

 

[Horsman]

You know what really prevents gender sandbagging, not just in disc golf but in any sport?

The notion that a man would voluntarily transition to female, live as female pretty much forever, go through the medical hassle of hormone therapy, watching his (deleted) shrivel up like a Vienna sausage and a pair of old raisins, growing breasts, having to go through the hassle of changing his legal documentation with dozens or hundreds of companies and government agencies, and immediately joining the ranks of one of the single most despised and discriminated-against minorities, being a social pariah, facing ostracization from his peers and family, and all that. . .

Just to win some disc golf trophies.

Yeah no. There's a reason gender sandbagging isn't a thing. The boogey-man (no pun intended) of some guy just dropping everything and playing as a woman for the lols falls apart with more than a moment's casual thought.

Not picking on you, Chuck, just running with the topic since you mentioned it. <3

I feel like there are people out there that would go thru all of this just to win. Some peoples need to win and show dominance and power is so strong that they would do whatever. This might not happen in disc golf or 99% of sport but Id guess that it has happened. Russia really should have just started to gender reassign males to females instead of having a state sponsored doping program. They could have won so many more medals.

 

[Steve West]

You know what really prevents gender sandbagging, not just in disc golf but in any sport?

The notion that a man would voluntarily transition to female, live as female pretty much forever, go through the medical hassle of hormone therapy, watching his (deleted) shrivel up like a Vienna sausage and a pair of old raisins, growing breasts, having to go through the hassle of changing his legal documentation with dozens or hundreds of companies and government agencies, and immediately joining the ranks of one of the single most despised and discriminated-against minorities, being a social pariah, facing ostracization from his peers and family, and all that. . .

Just to win some disc golf trophies.

Yeah no. There's a reason gender sandbagging isn't a thing. The boogey-man (no pun intended) of some guy just dropping everything and playing as a woman for the lols falls apart with more than a moment's casual thought.

Not picking on you, Chuck, just running with the topic since you mentioned it. <3

What if they did all that for other reasons, and THEN they discovered disc golf?

 

[jvphobic]

You know what really prevents gender sandbagging, not just in disc golf but in any sport?

The notion that a man would voluntarily transition to female, live as female pretty much forever, go through the medical hassle of hormone therapy, watching his (deleted) shrivel up like a Vienna sausage and a pair of old raisins, growing breasts, having to go through the hassle of changing his legal documentation with dozens or hundreds of companies and government agencies, and immediately joining the ranks of one of the single most despised and discriminated-against minorities, being a social pariah, facing ostracization from his peers and family, and all that. . .

Just to win some disc golf trophies.

Yeah no. There's a reason gender sandbagging isn't a thing. The boogey-man (no pun intended) of some guy just dropping everything and playing as a woman for the lols falls apart with more than a moment's casual thought.

Not picking on you, Chuck, just running with the topic since you mentioned it. <3

I wish I could double-nice or "super-nice" this comment.

 

[Halcón]

The notion that a man would voluntarily transition to female, live as female pretty much forever, go through the medical hassle of hormone therapy, watching his (deleted) shrivel up like a Vienna sausage and a pair of old raisins, growing breasts, having to go through the hassle of changing his legal documentation with dozens or hundreds of companies and government agencies, and immediately joining the ranks of one of the single most despised and discriminated-against minorities, being a social pariah, facing ostracization from his peers and family, and all that. . .

This argument doesn't hold water. When people say, "Do you think they would go through all that just for X reason?!?" Yes. Yes, an individual would go through alllll that, and much much more, if they put their mind to it.


Also, when you said earlier that a transgender woman is a woman, that is not true, at least not in the biological sense. A transgender woman is a transgender woman. They were born male, and chose, for whatever reason, to change their physical and/or hormonal form (assuming they've transitioned, and in this case, we are discussing that).

Now I'm not talking about what the person wants to be called, or how they feel, or societal constructs. I'm just referring to the need for these guidelines due to the fact that a transgender woman who wants to compete must prove that she is "woman enough," as it were.

 

[Guurn]

It's entirely fair to require that they be post surgical before playing in the other division. This prevents a lot of the things people have concerns about.

 

[Halcón]

It's entirely fair to require that they be post surgical before playing in the other division. This prevents a lot of the things people have concerns about.

I don't see what the concerns are here. If someone has shown that their hormone levels are at the guidelines, then why would they need surgery?

 

[jeremyhilss]

Some of us never knew the former policy existed.

While what you say is correct in that this has not happened in DG, we are a small sport that is only now starting to attract high level athletes. Sure, there have been a handful of high level athletes in the past and they dominated co-dominated the game.

Take any of the MPO players that have at least 1 x by their title and gender reassign them. Not only would they have a higher percentage of fast twitch muscle and long bone structure, they also have hard wired neurological advantage on being able to judge spatial coordances and to be more co-ordinated.

So much is focused on hormones, bones and muscles, yet very little is being said about how the brains of males and females physically differ and much of this structure is already in place in the womb.

The males brain is specialised to have increased spatial awareness, increased reactions, better co-ordination and a higher ability to focus, whilst the female brain is better at tasks that require multitasking, communication and memory.

The physical brain and nervous system will still be whatever it was before gender reassignment.


https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/hope-relationships/201402/brain-differences-between-genders

Exactly. I think supporters of this would be singing a bit different of a tune if Simon, Ricky, or Paul "reassigned" themselves and started stomping Paige Sarah and Catrina...

 

[ShopTom.com]

How about everyone just play their rating and not care what's in each others Underoos or on their birthday cake?
Gold 970+
Blue <970
White <935
Red <900
Green <850
Purple <800

 

[jeremyhilss]

You know what really prevents gender sandbagging, not just in disc golf but in any sport?

The notion that a man would voluntarily transition to female, live as female pretty much forever, go through the medical hassle of hormone therapy, watching his (deleted) shrivel up like a Vienna sausage and a pair of old raisins, growing breasts, having to go through the hassle of changing his legal documentation with dozens or hundreds of companies and government agencies, and immediately joining the ranks of one of the single most despised and discriminated-against minorities, being a social pariah, facing ostracization from his peers and family, and all that. . .

Just to win some disc golf trophies.

Yeah no. There's a reason gender sandbagging isn't a thing. The boogey-man (no pun intended) of some guy just dropping everything and playing as a woman for the lols falls apart with more than a moment's casual thought.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/transgend...d-competitors-critics-close/story?id=55856294

It is LITERALLY happening in other sports who's to say it won't happen if our sport grows more?

Incredibly ignorant of you, especially as someone who is telling us to do research, to brush it off as if it would never happen.

 

[Hampstead]

LOL at people who think gender reassignment surgery and subsequent status as social pariah is easier path to success than field work.

 

[ChefKoolaid]

LOL at people who think gender reassignment surgery and subsequent status as social pariah is easier path to success than field work.

These people definitely exist. They are the same ones who think discrimination doesn't exist. It would be very interesting to see a person like this go through with such a plan, and see how their attitude towards minorities changes.

 

[Guurn]

I think what sticks in people's craw are the people that just before a gender, never see a doctor or undergo any treatment, and compete as that gender. It happens regularly now in all sports from weightlifting to wrestling and on from there. Requiring the completion of transition seems reasonable.

 

[teemkey]

There are a number of states that allow the applicant to select gender (including non-binary) on their driver's license. How does the PDGA expect a TD to enforce their policy?

 

[pearlybakerbest]

Casey's alternate facts strike again! She was not from India or Pakistan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caster_Semenya

and.... In before the Landfill

I hope that this is not the woman he was thinking of, because she is not transgender but hyperandrogenous, meaning she naturally has elevated testosterone levels due to genetic variation. Completely different scenarios that I would hope people can wrap their head around.

 

[biscoe]

There are a number of states that allow the applicant to select gender (including non-binary) on their driver's license. How does the PDGA expect a TD to enforce their policy?

Player eligibility is determined by what the PDGA has in the database thereby removing the onus from TD's. (Although in theory i suppose the issue could arise with a non-member as well.)

 

[teemkey]

Player eligibility is determined by what the PDGA has in the database thereby removing the onus from TD's. (Although in theory i suppose the issue could arise with a non-member as well.)

Maybe I'm overly influenced by the internet; but there seem to be a lot of SJWs who love to test anything testable, and loudly object to anything they find objectionable.

It does seem like non-gender ratings protection is the strategic choice.

 

[VictorB]

Powerlifting is having the same debate.

It's a polarizing issue. USAPL has taken the stance where trans athletes are not allowed to compete (it's a tested federation, and drug use not allowed even if it is therapeutic level). RPS has taken a stance where trans athletes can compete only in the Open (ie non-tested) division.

It's a tough question to answer. I dont think either of those stances are incorrect, as they are contiguous with the rules standards of those federations.

For the PDGA, they would be best off taking the same stance as the IOC/WADA. This sport relies less on muscle and power, but there are still inherent biological advantages of people who go through puberty as males but transition later in life.

 

[pmorgan1214]

Its an interesting topic to talk about. Personally I don't believe any person that is born as a male and wants to transition into a female should be able to compete in a protected division such as FPO. Doesn't matter if they have the appropriate hormone levels. They still have muscle built from being a male for the majority of their life. This would give them an advantage over 99% of female disc golfers.