PDGA Updates Gender Policy

[toddnick]

Exactly

If I was born with one hand but feel like I have two, do I?...I'm thinking no...

If I was born short but feel tall, am I?...I'm thinking no...

Not that hard to understand...but not always easy to accept...

 

[Moose33]

In college I got a minor in developmental psychology, mainly for kicks because I found it interesting and my curveball paid for classes.

This topic is a fascinating one with an incredible amount of both sound and lesser than science and reaserch behind it. There is a lot a variable case by case as well as social and emotional pieces that are possibly not explored with enough empathy. The rule as it is worded seems "fair" or as close as it can with us error prone humans writing it.

Basically I know just enough to say "I don't know" where the absolute right is here, but if we can respect the individuals without judging them solely upon one complicated issue in their lives, then we can progress.

 

[toddnick]

Empathy is good, and I give it every day in my job...but it doesn't make my points any less true...

 

[Hampstead]

Empathy is good, and I give it every day in my job...but it doesn't make my points any less true...

What are you fishing for?

Attention?

OK.

I acknowledge you.

You have posted in this thread.

I recognize you.

Feel validated, friend?

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Wish I could throw like a girl (named Paige).

 

[toddnick]

I am not looking for recognition, acknowledgement, attention, validation, or anything else...just being real...

 

[toddnick]

Feel free to tell me where I erred in my analysis...seems pretty logical to me...(cue Supertramp, for us folks over 40)...

 

[beereakfast]

And once again dgcr amazes me. This civility is a nice touch.
Y'allzies rock!

 

[toddnick]

I thought the Supertramp part was being extra civil....don't like non civil debates...

 

[Orioles_Lefty]

You say "all this correctness," but you are the one forwarding a belief in correctness that is only correct because you deem it so.

All this correctness...don't get it...

If I am born a man, that is what I am...like it or not...there is no debate...it is real...it is physically undeniable, regardless of feelings...not hard to understand really...

If I am born poor but feel rich, does that make me rich? I'm thinking no....

If I am born black but feel white, does that make me white? I'm thinking no...

If I'm born blind but feel like I can see does that make me able to see? I'm thinking no....

Etc...

This is easy...and not something that people should make you feel bad for saying....

You are who you are...no hard to figure out...regardless of feelings...

There really should be no negative reaction to this reality....right?

 

[DiscFifty]

Look... I have no problem breaking bread with any sexuality, gender, preference, race, whatever. But I will never, ever, believe it is truly 100% fair for a young girl to train year after year, to be the best athlete she can be, only to end up competing against an athlete who was born with a male body.

Let's be honest here...there are huge decisions being made to accommodate a very, very, small percentage of people in areas more than just sports. Do the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few? In decisions like this you will never make both sides happy. I have no idea how these decisions are made, but I personally would hope they are voted on accordingly and not made by one person or a small body of people.

 

[DavidSauls]

All this correctness...don't get it...

If I am born a man, that is what I am...like it or not...there is no debate...it is real...it is physically undeniable, regardless of feelings...not hard to understand really...

If I am born poor but feel rich, does that make me rich? I'm thinking no....

If I am born black but feel white, does that make me white? I'm thinking no...

If I'm born blind but feel like I can see does that make me able to see? I'm thinking no....

Etc...

This is easy...and not something that people should make you feel bad for saying....

You are who you are...no hard to figure out...regardless of feelings...

There really should be no negative reaction to this reality....right?

If you want it enough and obtain riches, if medical treatment could change your skin and other racial characteristics, if science can give you vision.....in short, if your condition is changeable….I'm thinking yes. Or, at least, maybe.

The PDGA guidelines don't allow someone who just "feels" like a different gender, or feels and acts and dresses like another gender, to switch classification. It's much more restrictive than that.

 

[Nova P]

Look... I have no problem breaking bread with any sexuality, gender, preference, race, whatever.

So you seem to think you are establishing your bona fides as a good, non-bigoted person here, by showing that you'll have a meal with anyone.

But I will never, ever, believe it is truly 100% fair for a young girl to train year after year, to be the best athlete she can be, only to end up competing against an athlete who was born with a male body.

But then, right here, you turn around and state that you will "never, ever, believe" something, which means that basically there is no argument, no evidence, no anything which can change your mind on the topic. In other words, you believe something dogmatically. You're basically signalling to everyone that there's no point in discussing the matter with you. Your mind is made up, and it cannot be changed.

You're not discussing the matter in good faith. You're laying out your opinion, one which you declare can not and will not change.

Let's be honest here...

This further shows lack of good faith, by implying that all of the discussion which has preceded your comment is dishonest.

You're not the only one who is allowed to be honest, or to know things, or to be correct. Not all of the things you believe are automatically true just because you believe them. If you approach a discussion in this way, don't expect to be taken seriously.

You or others may notice that I'm talking solely about the way you are approaching this discussion and not your ideas. That's because the way you are approaching this discussion is fundamentally flawed, so it doesn't matter what your ideas are.

 

[Putt for D'oh]

I am not looking for recognition, acknowledgement, attention, validation, or anything else...just being real...

It seems you feel smart and reasonable with your take on the subject...

This is an incredibly difficult subject but until, it as long as men and women are segregated in competition there will need to be some kind of criteria for determining for lack of s better term a leagle female. Like a testosterone level in the body. Would be similar to drug testing. The result could be that an athlete in transition may not be able to compete for longer than they would like but that is kinda the point. Until they are hormonaly on the same page as their competitors.

When it comes to simple size and strength there is a marked difference. I know the marks have changed but I recal when I was in high school my 400 and 800 times could have got me into the Olympic Trials for women. If a mediocre high school boy can compete with world class women, then it should be more stringent than changing someone's physical appearance to keep the field fair.

 

[DiscFifty]

That's because the way you are approaching this discussion is fundamentally flawed, so it doesn't matter what your ideas are.

See.. this is another problem in today's world.... since my mind can't be changed...I am the one with the problem and I don't matter. Search yourself.....

 

[Nova P]

See.. this is another problem in today's world.... since my mind can't be changed...I am the one with the problem and I don't matter. Search yourself.....

You're only half right. You do have a problem, I agree, but on the other hand I do think that you matter. I'm trying to help you out. Being unwilling to accept new information or ideas and being closed to change is no way to go through life.

The most honest and humble thing someone can say is "I don't know" or "I'm willing to learn and change my mind." If someone can't do that, then they can't learn anything new. They can't grow as a person anymore.

 

[jmdaire27]

Appreciate the OP sharing the rule change. Thanks for the heads up.

Seems like the rest of the convo belongs in the water cooler, though?

This is a very polarizing subject. It's nearly impossible to sway any one person the "other" way.

Let's talk about disc golf! I'd suggest if there is a specific instance in a tourney that this rule implies, positive or negative, share!

The real question: has _____ peaked?!

 

[Orioles_Lefty]

You don't intend to do this I don't think, but by saying "let's talk about disc golf," you are silencing and ignoring people who don't have the luxury of separating playing disc golf from their identity. It's a privilege to have safe topics. And to talk about the safe topics and to talk about them the way they've always been talked about is to maintain the status quo.

Appreciate the OP sharing the rule change. Thanks for the heads up.

Seems like the rest of the convo belongs in the water cooler, though?

This is a very polarizing subject. It's nearly impossible to sway any one person the "other" way.

Let's talk about disc golf! I'd suggest if there is a specific instance in a tourney that this rule implies, positive or negative, share!

The real question: has _____ peaked?!

 

[jmdaire27]

You don't intend to do this I don't think, but by saying "let's talk about disc golf," you are silencing and ignoring people who don't have the luxury of separating playing disc golf from their identity. It's a privilege to have safe topics. And to talk about the safe topics and to talk about them the way they've always been talked about is to maintain the status quo.

:doh:

I'm going to go throw discs. Carry on.

 

[d11rok]

I do find it amusing that the only people who are fulminantly against this are males. How does this affect you? Why, in your heart of hearts, is this really bothering you this much?