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Pro Tour Live Coverage

wolfmandragon said:
I have seen Marty refuse to move for a player putting as well.... and it was the player he was filming. The player was angry and missed his short putt. I think that putt cost said player a couple hundred dollars.

Not the first jackwagon to flim a card.
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This seems absolutely bananas. There must be some rationale to it, but I can't see it.
 
Mocheez said:
From looking at the names in the credits, I think some of these guys were Phoenix area freelance videographers that were hired for just the Memorial. If that's the case, we will see a new set of camera men for Waco.
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Royalhghnss said:
This is correct.
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I heard on Smashboxx last night that 4 of the 6 cameramen will be regulars. 2 will be new for Waco. Also, JVphobic will be on vacation and will not operate the switch for Waco. I don't see how they can replace his talent and experience.
 
As I mentioned last night on the podcast as well.

1. No way that cameraman heard Jessica. She says, "watch out" 2 times, but doesn't yell it until it basically hits him. The audio you hear is coming from the camera directly behind her.
2. His face is in a lens and he probably didn't know it was coming that close until it was too late.
3. He felt really bad.
4. Camera Ops get in the way in other sports. (baseball & golf for example). This is the price they will have to pay for increased media.
5. If a player thinks they are going to throw over/around/near cameramen, spectators, etc they should warn them. If they don't warn them, odds are it wasn't where they meant to throw. If Jessica thought she had any chance to hit the cameraman, she should have at least warned him. This doesn't just go for her, it should be ALL players.
6. As we have said... ALL media crews get hit at some point. It is inevitable, you just hope that it doesn't affect the outcome significantly.

As far as the freelance guys go. I think it will be fine IF the freelance people are running the "reaction cam". That camera simply adds polish and flair to the post production and isn't vital. I hope that they don't have new cameramen for the primary cameras on either card. But, I honestly have no clue.

PS. I am kinda shocked that this thread is literally only 31 pages long. hahah.
 
jvphobic said:
As I mentioned last night on the podcast as well.

1. No way that cameraman heard Jessica. She says, "watch out" 2 times, but doesn't yell it until it basically hits him. The audio you hear is coming from the camera directly behind her.
2. His face is in a lens and he probably didn't know it was coming that close until it was too late.
3. He felt really bad.
4. Camera Ops get in the way in other sports. (baseball & golf for example). This is the price they will have to pay for increased media.
5. If a player thinks they are going to throw over/around/near cameramen, spectators, etc they should warn them. If they don't warn them, odds are it wasn't where they meant to throw. If Jessica thought she had any chance to hit the cameraman, she should have at least warned him. This doesn't just go for her, it should be ALL players.
6. As we have said... ALL media crews get hit at some point. It is inevitable, you just hope that it doesn't affect the outcome significantly.

As far as the freelance guys go. I think it will be fine IF the freelance people are running the "reaction cam". That camera simply adds polish and flair to the post production and isn't vital. I hope that they don't have new cameramen for the primary cameras on either card. But, I honestly have no clue.

PS. I am kinda shocked that this thread is literally only 31 pages long. hahah.
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I disagree with your take that the operator assumes less responsibility than the player in this instance, but I don't fault you at all for not burying a guy you were working with.
 
jvphobic said:
As I mentioned last night on the podcast as well.

5. If a player thinks they are going to throw over/around/near cameramen, spectators, etc they should warn them. If they don't warn them, odds are it wasn't where they meant to throw. If Jessica thought she had any chance to hit the cameraman, she should have at least warned him. This doesn't just go for her, it should be ALL players.
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There is more nuance here, because players don't always know exactly where their shot is going, but good players plan for this. For example: if Jessica is throwing a forehand near the left OB line, she might be aiming for a specific spot, but she might also throw a lower line with a wider rimmed disc in this scenario, because in the event that she misses her line, she knows it will at least skip in bounds. She wasn't aiming for where the camera guy was standing, but she still played a good shot and probably made the shot selection for that exact purpose (knowing your miss) and it should have skipped in bounds. Why would it not be assumed to watch out if you are anywhere near a landing area?
 
Let me be clear, experience 100% comes into play here. That isn't the optimal spot for him to stand for the shot. And like I explained last night as well... live is a different animal. The post production guys move whenever they want to. My live guys have to WAIT until they are clear and have my signal or you get a LOT of "Blair Witch" effect. So, while I don't remember what happened before that, there is a solid chance that he wasn't ABLE to get into position BECAUSE of me. So he probably posted up the soonest he could once he saw the others starting to throw.

And I totally disagree that he had any opportunity to move. As I have heard MULTIPLE times on angles chosen this weekend, specific camera angles "lie" about the distances that objects are. He pointed his camera in the position that he thought the disc was going to be. I don't even know if he saw it yet thru his viewfinder before he got drilled in the leg, or if he did... it was clearly too late. It isn't like the cameraman was stubborn and just took a forehand disc to the leg, that is an idiotic stance to take.

This could be the only time this guy gets hit in years. Every crew has been hit. If he (or the other guys) get hit frequently, we can readdress the situation and crew.

dorseymatt, I honestly don't know this cameraman at all. I don't even know his name. To me he was "Camera 2". That is it. It isn't about me standing up for my guy, I would be doing this for ANY of the camera guys.

I don't hear NEARLY the complaints coming from the 18th hole when McBeths disc jumped out of bounds and a dog that was standing NEXT to those OB cardboard dividers caused his disc to jump BACK in bounds saving him strokes and allowing him to move up in the standings.
 
Timthenchant3r said:
There is more nuance here, because players don't always know exactly where their shot is going, but good players plan for this. For example: if Jessica is throwing a forehand near the left OB line, she might be aiming for a specific spot, but she might also throw a lower line with a wider rimmed disc in this scenario, because in the event that she misses her line, she knows it will at least skip in bounds. She wasn't aiming for where the camera guy was standing, but she still played a good shot and probably made the shot selection for that exact purpose (knowing your miss) and it should have skipped in bounds. Why would it not be assumed to watch out if you are anywhere near a landing area?
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Isn't there some nuance on the other end of this too? By definition, the guy running the catch cam is always going to be "anywhere near a landing area". I think he's well aware of the fact that he needs to "watch out" for discs coming in. That's his job. But as Jonny points out, when your face is in the lens of the camera, it's sometimes difficult to discern exactly how far away the disc actually is or how close it may actually come to hitting you. So on occasion, contact might be inevitable.

And I don't think putting some of the responsibility on Jessica is suggesting that she has to be precise and know exactly where her disc is going. If in her calculus, she's considering the margin of error (knowing your miss, as you put it), wouldn't it stand to reason that she'd see that the camera person might be in the way. Not in the way of her intended shot, but in the way of an errant shot that still has a chance to skip in bounds?

I think ultimately what it comes down to is she was trying to do her job, he was trying to do his, and **** sometimes happens. The amount of attention this is getting really isn't warranted for what the incident really was, IMO.
 
Fair points, JVP. I appreciate you sticking up for the camera guy, even though you don't even know the guy. I get it.

Regarding the McBeth incident you mentioned--I actually haven't seen this or even heard about it until now. Probably because McBeth wasn't featured in any of the post-produced footage. But I will say I would absolutely hold camera operators to a higher standard than spectators (maybe that's just me). I'd place some of the blame on whoever is supposed to be in charge of crowd control there, if there is any blame to be assigned.
 
JVP, while we have you here, would you be able to comment on why that camera operator might have refused to move out of Catrina Allen's line of sight when asked? Is that a production call, or is the guy going into business for himself there? Any insight into this?
 
dorseymatt said:
JVP, while we have you here, would you be able to comment on why that camera operator might have refused to move out of Catrina Allen's line of sight when asked? Is that a production call, or is the guy going into business for himself there? Any insight into this?
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This was honestly the first I had heard about it. I instructed all my cameramen that it was OK to stand behind baskets for players putting, but if ever asked to move you listen to the player. Otherwise stand still when on a green. If that story is accurate, it should immediately be brought to Steve's attention. That is something that shouldn't ever happen.
 
jvphobic said:
This was honestly the first I had heard about it. I instructed all my cameramen that it was OK to stand behind baskets for players putting, but if ever asked to move you listen to the player. Otherwise stand still when on a green. If that story is accurate, it should immediately be brought to Steve's attention. That is something that shouldn't ever happen.
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Thanks for this response. Glad to hear it's not standard practice for the crew to stand their ground when asked to move.
 
dorseymatt said:
JVP, while we have you here, would you be able to comment on why that camera operator might have refused to move out of Catrina Allen's line of sight when asked? Is that a production call, or is the guy going into business for himself there? Any insight into this?
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Could you please offer a link or specific time and rd.. Id like to review this for myself. Thanks
 
cheesethin said:
On the recent Jomez video AMA, their catch cam guy Michael says he's been hit once, in a Final 9 somewhere, by a Danny Lindahl shot, and that's it.
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Looks like it hit one of the trees to the left of the cameraman. Where Gibson throws his next shot is way closer to the OB line than where the cameraman was standing. I'm just guessing if it hit him, it wouldn't have shot off to the left 30'.
 
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