Rules Changes for 2018

[_MTL_]

That's because disc golf is small potatoes even at the highest level of competition, but if it grows to where we all think it will grow, this stuff will matter.

I always come back to my analogy of playing computer games competitively 20 years ago... when I played in early computer gaming tournaments, the prizes were worth $300 and we never really worried about cheating because it wasn't a profitable enterprise. Now computer gaming tournaments are worth millions of dollars, there's plenty of cheating, match fixing, and so on, and it all has to be managed. There were plenty of growing pains there, because initial games/rules/leagues didn't take cheating seriously enough.

When the prize at your local C tier is $5000... this stuff is going to be come an issue. People are going to push the boundaries. You incentivize people to do it, they will.

Or to turn it around... how about the rules should be solid simply because they so easily can be. Why have problems like this when the PDGA can very easily address them with a quick change. There should have been a feedback period to troubleshoot these things, where players say "what about this" and they answer the question by pointing to the rule that addresses it, and if they recognize the rule isn't crystal clear, make an edit so it is.

I appreciate your perspective. It's well thought out and I certainly understand.

However, I think it's important to add that the PDGA, as in PDGA employees, had nothing to do with this process. It's not like Andrew Sweeton made these changes. This was suggested by the Rules Committee, which is made up of long time players, and approved by the BOD, which is voted in by the entire membership.

I would argue that this feedback you are asking for was absolutely done within those groups of players. Most "what if" scenarios are hashed out. And the committee reaches out to TD's and players. I know I was contacted about these a few months ago to get my input and understanding.

 

[dscmn]

Whoa. I can certainly take advantage of this when stuck up a tree though I think it breaks the spirit of playing where it lies.

I think the pdga killed that premise a long time ago.

 

[biscoe]

I know I was contacted about these a few months ago to get my input and understanding.

I would love to know the rationale behind expanding the lie and behind allowing a shot from a faulty stance to count. i suspect i know the former but honestly have no clue how anyone could think the latter is a good idea.

 

[_MTL_]

The rationale for the change:

The background of this rule was people were taking advantage of the free re-throw. Helping friends out with calling bogus foot fault calls so someone could re-throw. So the idea was to immediately stroke someone for a foot fault.

Man, the mark is pretty small. We don't want to get really petty. So they increased the spot.

Pretty fair - decrease in offenses, increase in punishment.

As far as no more re-throw, I questioned that as well. I'm waiting to hear back on an explanation. Will post when I get it. Probably will be tomorrow. Don't do the DGCR thing at home.

 

[McFer]

 

[_MTL_]

My guess on the re-throw is let's say someone throws an absolute crap shot. It might be beneficial for them to re-throw even with penalty and not force them to play the lie they created.

 

[DavidSauls]

There has been a lot of half hearted talk over the years about dg needing another organization. i do not subscribe to this in general but if they decided to mandate stand and deliver i would form the darn thing myself.

Can I be member #002?

 

[biscoe]

The rationale for the change:

The background of this rule was people were taking advantage of the free re-throw. Helping friends out with calling bogus foot fault calls so someone could re-throw. So the idea was to immediately stroke someone for a foot fault.

this part i follow and agree with although there was already an option for dealing with this behavior in the rules.

Man, the mark is pretty small. We don't want to get really petty. So they increased the spot.

Pretty fair - decrease in offenses, increase in punishment.

this part i do not. the new area is harder to define on the spot therefore more likely to be abused. The idea that offenses will actually decrease reflects a very optimistic view of human nature. it seems to me that in an effort to make it easier to avoid the accidental foot fault the door has been opened even wider for those who are intentionally pushing rules to their limit or beyond. No one is ever going to call a foot fault under these new rules. They have given in to the culture of ignoring the violations imo.

 

[mullethead326]

this part i follow and agree with although there was already an option for dealing with this behavior in the rules.



this part i do not. the new area is harder to define on the spot therefore more likely to be abused. The idea that offenses will actually decrease reflects a very optimistic view of human nature. it seems to me that in an effort to make it easier to avoid the accidental foot fault the door has been opened even wider for those who are intentionally pushing rules to their limit or beyond. No one is ever going to call a foot fault under these new rules. They have given in to the culture of ignoring the violations imo.

I absolutely agree with this. I play mostly in the woods. In the woods, the 4 inches to either side of the lie can make all the difference in how the shot is executed. I can think of 3 stance violations I've called this year and all were when a player was stretching to get around a tree or obstacle. It has always been easy to look down the centerline of the disc to the target and assess whether the player is meeting the mark. Now, especially if it's marked with a mini (not 20 cm wide), I'm to assess if a player is within 10 cm (~4 in) of the centerline? That's a way more diffuse target to evaluate, and maybe not one I'm comfortable adjudicating.

Players calling stance violations to benefit their friends on bad shots sounds like a culture problem, not a rules problem.

 

[teemkey]

My guess on the re-throw is let's say someone throws an absolute crap shot. It might be beneficial for them to re-throw even with penalty and not force them to play the lie they created.

Playing at '14 Worlds I threw an approach shot over the corner of a lake from a relatively steep downhill lie, stepped too far, and landed on my marker disc which flew out from under me as I threw. I hit the ground like I was sliding into 2nd base. My shot was ended up about 60' short of the basket. But it did barely make it over the water.

With the current rule, I was warned and able to rethrow for a 15' birdie putt. So, yeah, I got away with one there.

However, under the new rule I would have incurred a one throw penalty and then had to make a 60' putt to save par -- a low probability event. So with the more probable bogey, it would have been a 2-throw difference.

Had my throw been 12' shorter it would have been in the lake OB, and I'd advance about 15' to the water's edge to throw 5, with the expectation of a double bogey or worse. That's not much different than the result of choosing an optional rethrow, other than the 12' if taking the OB.

So, generalizing, an OB (or optional rethrow, or missed Mando) on a throw where a stance violation occurs could result in a 3 or more throw difference between the current and new rule outcomes. Have I got that right?

 

[kerplunk]

So am I reading the change correctly. "Missing a hole is par +4" It doesn't stipulate that it is in regards to the start of the round.
I get a gnarly cut, I can go back to my truck to doctor it up, then resume the round at my leisure?
I get sick and don't finish my round, can I come back the next day if I'm feeling better?
If this is the case I like the idea. I would be bummed if I traveled to a tournament and for some reason had to miss a few holes I'm still eligible to play the remainder of the event.

Can we dub this the Pee Break rule? Y'all know what I'm talking about.

 

[AzteC]

yeah I don't know how the unlimited relief isn't under MAJOR change.

 

[Horsman]

Best rule ever is 811-F-9

"Wrong Starting Hole or Group. The player has begun play on a hole or in a group other than the one to which they were assigned. The player continues play, and two throws are added to the player's score for the first hole played."

You can play with whatever group you want for a 2 stroke penalty

 

[teemkey]

The 2018 rule book and competition manual are posted as downloadable pdfs.

The rule book index is worse than I'd imagined. It references by rule number, not page number.

All Square..................................A.04.A
Away Player ..............................802.02.C
Basket Target, or Basket..........807.A
Casual Area...............................806.03.A
Casual Obstacle.......................803.01.B.1
Casual Water.............................806.03.A
Completion of a Round...........808.F
Director .....................................801.02.G
Double Mandatory ..................804.01.A
Down .........................................A.04.A
Drop Zone.................................802.05.C
Extra Throw...............................A.03.C
Group ........................................801.02.A
Halved .......................................A.04.A
Hazard .......................................806.05.A
Height-Restricted
Double Mandatory..............804.01.A
Hole ...........................................800
In-bounds..................................806.02.A
Lie ..............................................802.05.A
Line of Play................................802.05.D
Mandatory Line ........................804.02.A.1
Mandatory Object....................804.01.A
Mandatory Route .....................804.01.A
Marker.......................................802.05.D
Marker Disc...............................802.05.D
Match Play.................................A.01.A
Medal Play ................................A.01.A
Mini Marker Disc, or Mini ........802.06.B
Misplay ......................................811.B
Object Target............................807.A
Official .......................................801.02.F
Out-of-bounds .........................806.02.A
Par..............................................811.F.5
Penalty Throw ...........................801.02.E
Players' Meeting.......................811.A
Playing Surface.........................802.05.A
Position......................................805.01.A
Practice Throw..........................809.03.A
Provisional Throw,
or Provisional .......................809.02.A
Putt.............................................806.01.A
Relief Area.................................806.04.A
Re-throw....................................802.02.D
Single Mandatory.....................804.01.A
Supporting Point......................802.04.B
Target.........................................807.A
Tee Line.....................................802.04.A
Teeing Area, or Tee..................802.04.A
Throw.........................................802.01.A
Tournament Official .................801.02.F
Two-meter Rule ........................805.02.A
Up ..............................................A.04.A
Warning.....................................801.02.D

 

[ToddL]

806.01.B. After having released a putt, the player must demonstrate full control of balance behind the marker disc before advancing toward the target. A player who fails to do so has committed a stance violation and receives one penalty throw.

No rethrow for a falling putt either. Take the result and add a stroke.

 

[ToddL]

The 2018 rule book and competition manual are posted as downloadable pdfs.

The rule book index is worse than I'd imagined. It references by rule number, not page number.

The book is 15 pages long, and the rule numbers are listed next to the page numbers at the bottom of every page. It's not gonna be that hard to find what you're looking for.

 

[teemkey]

Oh, and notice that the Index shows a reference for Par: 811.F.5.

Searching, searching, got it.

Page 13.

And section 811 is entitled "Misplay."

Hmmmmm ... Par ... 13 ... Misplay ... Interesting. Coincidence? Irony?

 

[DonCasper]

I think the simplified rules for holing out are pretty awesome. I think it takes some of the randomness out of holing out. Per the FAQ, a disc resting on on the rim of the basket across two nubs will count next year, whereas currently it would not count:

QA-COM-3
I putted and my disc wound up in a
horizontal position on top of the tray's rim,
spanning two nubs. Does it count?
Yes, as long as the disc entered the target
correctly (above the tray and below the
top chain support).

I hated the fact that discs hanging on the nubs didn't count. It's a rare shot, but I never saw the benefit to penalizing the player. It seemed unnecessarily punitive.

 

[AzteC]

I think the simplified rules for holing out are pretty awesome. I think it takes some of the randomness out of holing out. Per the FAQ, a disc resting on on the rim of the basket across two nubs will count next year, whereas currently it would not count:



I hated the fact that discs hanging on the nubs didn't count. It's a rare shot, but I never saw the benefit to penalizing the player. It seemed unnecessarily punitive.

It says horizontally hanging.. What if its on the outside of the basket, on the nubs, hanging vertically.. Like AJ Risley's putt on hole 6 at USDGC.

 

[roadtripstuff]

What about this? It pretty much eliminates the FPO division for smallet events. Here, where we only have a couple of FPO players a lot of the AM women will play FPO just to make a division. Now they won't. Horrible decision and will probably lead to lower FPO players leaving the game.

A. Any player accepting cash in a Pro division at a PDGA-sanctioned event (except
leagues) must be a current Pro-class PDGA member. If they are not a current
Pro-class PDGA member, and wish to accept cash, the membership fee for
either their new Pro membership, upgraded membership (if a current Amateur),
or renewed Pro membership is taken out of their winnings by the Tournament
Director and forwarded to the PDGA.
B. An Amateur playing in a Pro division may NOT accept merchandise in lieu of cash;
they may only accept a trophy (if one is available). All cash payouts at or below
that place would move down one place causing an additional place to be paid.