USDGC results-exactly what people were worried about?

[steve a]

Innova seems to have the USDGC by the balls... that is what needs to change.

So we should take the tournament away from Innova??? I thought it was their event.

 

[SirWalter]

It's not sandbagging if he had to play left handed because he was hurt. People should be congratulating him for even qualifying while playing left handed.

 

[joe_kool315]

Question ... does anyone know exactly when it was announced that this was going to be a handicapped event for everyone to try and qualify for?

 

[Three Putt]

If you listened to Jonathan Poole's interview, it is pretty clear that Innova feels the need to change the culture of tournament disc golf.

On one hand they feel like with how high they have set the bar (and have continually raised it) with the USDGC, they have put a lot of pressure on the entire worldwide tournament scene to do likewise. And they have given false hope to aspiring Pro's that there is hope to being able to make a living off touring in the near term.

They have also been instrumental in creating/fostering the weird divide in DG of a semi pro culture - one that gets paid in cash and another that gets paid in plastic coins. A culture that does not hold enduring fun/joy for anyone. Nor is it an ideal model for the disc golf business. Nor is what they have been doing growing the grass roots audience needed to get the eyeballs which outside sponsors need in order to involve their money in the sport (at least not to the level they had hoped a decade+ ago).

On the other hand, they want to grow the tournament scene in an area that is not mainstream in DG - handicapped events. This allows real competition to take place in an environment that does away with the cash/plastic divide (or at least has the potential to do so) and is a sustainable fun environment to play in (once the bugs are worked out).

I commend Innova for taking a leadership role in working to change the culture of competitive DG. They took a big risk with their most visible involvement in tournament play. Some scenarios played out in a bad way for them, but I think these will only help accelerate the tweaks that need to be made to make handicap play more mainstream in our sport.

Not trolling or stupid. This is reality. Innova tried to push disc golf mainstream thinking the sponsorship would notice and join in. It didn't happen. Disc golf has an unsustainable model where a ridiculously high % of our resources are dedicated to tournament payouts. USDGC was the leading edge of this and simply got to expensive for Innova to cover the huge loss that operates at. Chances are the B-tier you played in last month lost money as well, but it was in the $100's instead of the tens of thousands and a Club or individual ate the loss. The only reason this is a topic of conversation at all is because so many disc golfers have never run an event and don't realize what a time/money/recourse-suckhole they are. I doubt anybody who has ever actually run a PDA-sanctioned event was very surprised by what Poole had to say. I was pretty happy that Innova finally had the guts to admit what a lot of us already knew.

 

[Dave242]

Well, I am not trolling so that leaves the option of me being stupid. Look into my doggy eyes and tell me that like a man.

Knowing him personally, I can vouch for JP that he is not stupid. Maybe I summarized pertinent parts of this interview poorly. See for yourself and feel free to comment on what you glean from it so you can make a more intelligent contribution to this thread than what I tried to do.



Did I just take the bait of troll? :doh:

 

[harr0140]

Here's a radical notion.

With your sweat and your money, run your tournament however you think best.

With my sweat and my money, I'll run my tournament the way I think best.

And with Innova's sweat and money, they can run their tournament the way they think best. It's their creation. Including the name.

And if you don't like the way they do it----don't play in it.

Probably my favorite post about this topic . . . so much so I am reposting on facebook to stir the pot a little bit with all those complainers out there.

 

[Dave242]

Question ... does anyone know exactly when it was announced that this was going to be a handicapped event for everyone to try and qualify for?

From this thread: on or before 12/3/10

 

[DiscKey]

This is hilarious!!! *

First off, I didn't have a caddie for any of the 4 rounds! *Yes, I have only been playing for 27 months and *I have only played two pdga events.....The first of which was a year an a half ago where I played lefty because I had shoulder surgery 4 months prior. The second tourney was this passed March and I didn't even know it was a qualifier until another player and the TD contacted me. *

Put as many asterisks by it as you want, I'm well aware of the reality and insignificance of this year's tournament! *I went for the experience, got to play on the same card with pros Feldberg, Vicich, and Napier..... As well as some other good golfers! *The course was amazing and stroke and distance from every throw can be brutal to ANY golfer! *I have a great amount of respect for the true "Pros" and what they do! *I have even more respect for the pros that played in the event! *

I don't agree with the handicapped system, but the format isn't a bad idea....... I believe that everyone's handicap should have been based on the ratings of the rounds they qualified at! *I also believe that any pro handicap should never be below par. *

I agree that the scenario that played out is the reason the system doesn't work and needs to be tweaked if used in the future!*

I want to thank Jonathan Poole, Harold, Innova and everyone involved with this years event that allowed many people an experience that was a blast!*

John Key

 

[Dave242]

This is hilarious!!! *

First off, I didn't have a caddie for any of the 4 rounds! *Yes, I have only been playing for 27 months and *I have only played two pdga events.....The first of which was a year an a half ago where I played lefty because I had shoulder surgery 4 months prior. The second tourney was this passed March and I didn't even know it was a qualifier until another player and the TD contacted me. *

Put as many asterisks by it as you want, I'm well aware of the reality and insignificance of this year's tournament! *I went for the experience, got to play on the same card with pros Feldberg, Vicich, and Napier..... As well as some other good golfers! *The course was amazing and stroke and distance from every throw can be brutal to ANY golfer! *I have a great amount of respect for the true "Pros" and what they do! *I have even more respect for the pros that played in the event! *

I don't agree with the handicapped system, but the format isn't a bad idea....... I believe that everyone's handicap should have been based on the ratings of the rounds they qualified at! *I also believe that any pro handicap should never be below par. *

I agree that the scenario that played out is the reason the system doesn't work and needs to be tweaked if used in the future!*

I want to thank Jonathan Poole, Harold, Innova and everyone involved with this years event that allowed many people an experience that was a blast!*

John Key

What are all the asterisks in your post? Are you the "USDGC Asterisk Guy"?

If this is really THE John Key, props to you for coming on here to state your case.

 

[DiscKey]

The ****** is for everyone that wants an ***** by it!

I'm not stating my case, just the facts!

 

[craftsman]

Ima go ahead and give jk* a ton of respect for not only coming on here and defending the facts, but also to do it in a real decent way.

 

[grodney]

I have a ForumManCrush on ThreePutt, DavidSauls, sometimes even Dave242.

p.s. Quality first 2 posts from John Key!

 

[Lewis]

Welcome to the site, John Key, and congratulations on your victory. What is stroke and distance?

 

[DiscKey]

Any shot that goes OB, you re-throw with a stroke from original mark, not where it went OB

 

[Cgkdisc]

A couple items I'm reasonably sure (90%) will occur:
- The 2012 USDGC will not return to the format and/or payout of 2010
- The next Performance Edition will have tighter restrictions on ratings and qualifying
- The Throw & Distance penalty will not be used as the blanket format for all holes
- Events will continue to fill regardless of format because the course and overall hospitality, not the format or payout is king at the USDGC

 

[joe_kool315]

Good to see you on here John ... I was about to lay some knowledge down on some of the peeps that "talked to your caddie" and that knew you were a 970+ rated player. A simple search of the PDGA site which shows a players complete history is easy to find.

 

[Dave242]

A couple items I'm reasonably sure (90%) will occur:
......
- Events will continue to fill regardless of format because the course and overall hospitality, not the format or payout is king at the USDGC

I'm wondering about the hospitality part of it. Will it hold up? Lots of the event's appeal is indeed the through-the-roof service provided largely by a host of volunteers taking time off work and out of other ways they could be spending their vacation time.

Lots of what motivates that is the opportunity to be around the best of the best, rubbing shoulders with them, and watching them play at an amazingly high level. Without them being there, I a wondering if that will keep up.

Are the volunteers as enamored with the event this year as in years past?

 

[barneco]

Not trolling or stupid. This is reality. Innova tried to push disc golf mainstream thinking the sponsorship would notice and join in. It didn't happen. Disc golf has an unsustainable model where a ridiculously high % of our resources are dedicated to tournament payouts. USDGC was the leading edge of this and simply got to expensive for Innova to cover the huge loss that operates at. Chances are the B-tier you played in last month lost money as well, but it was in the $100's instead of the tens of thousands and a Club or individual ate the loss. The only reason this is a topic of conversation at all is because so many disc golfers have never run an event and don't realize what a time/money/recourse-suckhole they are. I doubt anybody who has ever actually run a PDA-sanctioned event was very surprised by what Poole had to say. I was pretty happy that Innova finally had the guts to admit what a lot of us already knew.

This post is quite insightful and I think it's rather telling that it was basically ignored.

People want !@#% to get better and bigger but no one is willing to give up the pretty, shiny plastic to get there.

 

[yankees23]

If you go on the PDGA website and watch some of the footage they have covering these guys it will probably make you upset. They are horrible for being in a tourny of that caliber.

 

[rnance7]

- Events will continue to fill regardless of format because the course and overall hospitality, not the format or payout is king at the USDGC

You hit it spot on.. We were treated like rockstars

And Mr. Key, I stand corrected. There was a lot of talking going on around the clubhouse, so I do apologize for misunderstanding the situation