15 times champion

[SonicGuy]

So why don't we consider Ken Climo the 15x world champion? We count the women's protected division as a world championship, why not masters?

I'm ready for a 15x KC teebird.

 

[Halcón]

Why would you equate Pro Masters to FPO?

 

[Broken Shoulder]

Because neither is Open.

 

[bwgort]

Because neither is Open.

FPO is Open.

 

[t i m]

So why don't we consider Ken Climo the 15x world champion? We count the women's protected division as a world championship, why not masters?

I'm ready for a 15x KC teebird.

Probably because it's a slippery slope... if you count Masters, do you also count GMs, Legends, etc? There are plenty of people who are world champions many times over in age-protected divisions who will never have their name on a disc.

WPO is an easier line to draw. Virtually every sport has separate divisions for men and women, and there's a longstanding tradition of honoring the highest performing individuals of each gender.

 

[Innova63]

So why don't we consider Ken Climo the 15x world champion? We count the women's protected division as a world championship, why not masters?

I'm ready for a 15x KC teebird.

I am pretty sure I have heard KC call himself a 12xchamp.....

 

[SonicGuy]

FPO is Open.

Open to only a demographic subset. Same with masters and juniors.

Probably because it's a slippery slope... if you count Masters, do you also count GMs, Legends, etc? There are plenty of people who are world champions many times over in age-protected divisions who will never have their name on a disc.

WPO is an easier line to draw. Virtually every sport has separate divisions for men and women, and there's a longstanding tradition of honoring the highest performing individuals of each gender.

Whether each person deserves their name on a disc isn't the point, Climo already has his name on many discs. Right now he is being shorted by 3 championships on his record.

Saying that we historically exclude age protected championships is agism. At one point we historically excluded women from voting, was that a good argument?

The way I see it we have gender protected divisions to match up women with their physiological peers. We honor the champions because they are the best among that physiological peer group. We have masters divisions for the exact same purpose, yet we do not honor their championships with the same vigor. What gives?

 

[Cgkdisc]

We're not even sure what defines a man versus woman any more.

 

[discRabbit]

Why does masters start at 40? We could have an open division for 30, 31, 32, ..., 120. We could have weight classes or classes for arm span (probably more relevant).

Recognize that all of these divisions are arbitrary to some extent. Then it becomes a bit more murky why/when some deserve the title of "world champion".


EDIT: I'm totally cool with a new batch of 15x KC Aviars tho

 

[roggenb3]

Saying that we historically exclude age protected championships is agism.

No, it isn't. It's just a definition. World Champ = Open World Champ.

 

[SonicGuy]

No, it isn't. It's just a definition. World Champ = Open World Champ.

Way to discount the women buddy. Don't you think they are world champions too?

 

[BogeyNoMore]

We're not even sure what defines a man versus woman any more.

Chuck, can I register in a female division if that's the gender group I identify with?



*wants people to wonder what that winkie smiley is really all about....*

 

[Cgkdisc]

Chuck, can I register in a female division if that's the gender group I identify with?

Maybe. Not my job to verify. Fortunately, ratings are genderless.

 

[roggenb3]

Way to discount the women buddy. Don't you think they are world champions too?

Oh, sorry, I didn't realize that FPO didn't exist anymore.

 

[BlazedOrangeHat]

Climo already has his name on many discs. Right now he is being shorted by 3 championships on his record.

i can't remember where i read it, but climo himself said he doesn't want master's titles added onto his number. also, he calls himself a 12x world champion, not 15.

 

[Ender175]

More dog-whistle fpo trolling from miSogynicGuy....yawn

 

[Broken Shoulder]

FPO is Open.

Open to Females.
Open is Open.

 

[jeffmonty]

Interesting thread, even with the trolling, as I had been a bit curious about the 12 vs. the 15 X myself. If the Champ says he doesn't count the Masters titles, that answers it for me.

 

[BlazedOrangeHat]

Here is Climo's introduction at the 2015 USDGC. Notice how he doesn't go "AND TACK ON THREE MORE MASTER'S TITLES!!!!!" lol.

https://youtu.be/SupWXOd0rnc?t=1m33s

 

[sjberry2017]

Open to only a demographic subset. Same with masters and juniors.



Whether each person deserves their name on a disc isn't the point, Climo already has his name on many discs. Right now he is being shorted by 3 championships on his record.

Saying that we historically exclude age protected championships is agism. At one point we historically excluded women from voting, was that a good argument?

The way I see it we have gender protected divisions to match up women with their physiological peers. We honor the champions because they are the best among that physiological peer group. We have masters divisions for the exact same purpose, yet we do not honor their championships with the same vigor. What gives?

Except in the case of all the age protected divisions, players can also play in the lower aged divisions. For example, one of their reasons for splitting worlds was so guys like Climo, Schultz, McCray, Brown etc could play both Open Worlds and Masters Worlds. For FPO v MPO, they're both the most competitive of the respective gender's divisions. Yes, the ladies can play in the Men's pro open, but to me that's beside the point. The main idea is recognizing the players who have won Worlds at the top of their respective possible divisions.