2019 Pros Switching Sponsors Official Thread

[Golden Tuna]

lolllllll how bored are you guys

Pretty bored....

The post was phrased as a question, by the way... What would disc golf look like in 5 years if...

Tell me about the 'lolllllll' part of your post.
Does that mean you're laughing 7x louder than an average lol?

Is this scenario so inconceivable? Not to me, and not from a business perspective. But, I would love to hear more about what is so humorous about the concept. Anything is better than rehashing the same unconfirmed rhetoric and arguing the validity of one online comment against another...

To those people who think he is going off to design his own discs, do you guys really think it'd be that easy? Experienced engineers struggle with R&D stuff, let alone a random Joe. Just because you can throw a disc doesn't mean you know how to design one. How come tiger or Phil never designed their own golf clubs? Same thing. Not taking anything away from Paul, but let's think this through.

Completely agree. Which,m is why I can't imagine him ever 'designing' new molds from scratch. But, he could easily go to someone with injection molding capability and ask them to make a Destroyer, Thunderbird, TeeBird, Firebird, Roc, & Aviar clone.

Innova's competitors have been trying to 'make a better mousetrap (teebird) ever since KC made them popular. With the cash flow and CapEx limitations of traditional disc golf manufacturers, this would be a challenge. But, I think a Nike (or like company) could come in and perfect those molds in a much shorter time frame in my opinion.

 

[Hyzflip10]

No offense, but buying two discs that happen to fly the same three years apart is anecdotal at best. Perhaps there is more context to your claim, but a 2-unit data set is hardly empirical...

It was meant to be anecdotal, since I am at my desk and don't have time or interest to give a full analysis. My experience is that all the mvp discs I have are very consistent. Since they are in the plastics business, it seems to make sense. Your milage may vary.

Besides, it has more validity than someone speculating that somehow a consortium of non disc golf companies can formulate a plastic blend that would be twice the value of the discs currently on the market.

 

[Horsman]

Not trying to start an argument here but I just dont believe things verbatim even if they are from a credible source. For all we know Ian is just a pawn in a bigger game thats trying to drive up sales for Innova and Discraft while in the background something else is going on. The art of deception, create hype over Discraft while MVP (just examples) quietly makes big moves in the shadows. While I dont think something like that is happening its not out of the realm of possibilities that it could happen.

 

[GoldeyeGolf]

I can see a big sporting goods company getting into disc golf sometime in the not so distant future, but I would not expect it to be one of the golf-centric brands such as Calloway. The golf establishment looks down disc golf and would see the association as a diminishment of their brand. Nike is out of golf now, so they would be a possibility. And Adidas has already shown some interest.

I can see a backlash at a major company coming in and trying to take market share from the established brands that many players seem to have an emotional attachment to. On the other hand, some will see it as a mainstream verification of their sport and embrace it. A tricky marketing nut to try and crack, for sure. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

 

[ThrowBot]

Did you ever pay up?

I still haven't seen anything official from Discraft on the topic (unless I missed it over the weekend?) so I'm holding out until I know for certain.

But, I'm ready and willing to pay up if/when that happens.

Got a PM from MTL that he doesn't really want that disc, so I'll be donating to his charity of choice instead. Should be quick & painless.

 

[wolfmandragon]

Ian would have a serious hit to his reputation if he spoke without solid knowledge. It appears he was playing dumb before. I would guess he has been given a green-light to officially "leak" the deal.

I give Paul either signing with Discraft, or getting an imprint from Discraft, at about 98%.

 

[DiscJunkie]

The major argument against a mainstream sporting goods company, like Nike or Callaway getiing into DG, is that they would INSTANTLY lose credibility with the ball golf market, which is an infinitely larger market.
Hopefully, many years down the road, John Q Public will not see us a bunch of pot-smoking weirdos, but Mr Public definitely sees us that way now.
No way any golf equipment mfr is getting into DG.

 

[biscoe]

Vibram is a mainstream sporting goods company. I can easily see a big company purchasing one of the existing disc manufacturers rather than creating their own disc business out of whole cloth.

 

[snappyj]

Why is everyone so skeptical of Paul going to Discraft? Have they not been the 2nd biggest manufacturer for like 35 years?

 

[BuiltTooLong]

I can't say I've paid much attention, any other pros putt with mcpros that could scoop them up as their 2019 tour series disc?

Or it could just become a stock release, charge regular pro plastic pricing and not have to cough any cash up to a player.

The question is would people buy them if they were just a plain Jane putter you could get at any time with a boring stamp?

I think people will still buy them, as they are a very consistent putter, that is both stiff and slick for clean release. I believe Anthony Barella putts with them, maybe he could get a nice tour series AB-Pro Aviar.

 

[DiscFifty]

To those people who think he is going off to design his own discs, do you guys really think it'd be that easy? Experienced engineers struggle with R&D stuff, let alone a random Joe. Just because you can throw a disc doesn't mean you know how to design one. How come tiger or Phil never designed their own golf clubs? Same thing. Not taking anything away from Paul, but let's think this through.

If this was to move forward, I'm guessing it would primarily be "McBranding" with Paul giving some input as to the discs he likes, etc, and teaming up with an existing manufacture/designer, etc.

 

[DiscFifty]

Ian would have a serious hit to his reputation if he spoke without solid knowledge. It appears he was playing dumb before. I would guess he has been given a green-light to officially "leak" the deal.

I give Paul either signing with Discraft, or getting an imprint from Discraft, at about 98%.

I have yet to see anywhere a flat out statement of fact from Ian, I don't think we will tbh.

 

[discgolfer25]

I have yet to see anywhere a flat out statement of fact from Ian, I don't think we will tbh.

My guess is you're not going to hear anyone make an official statement until Paul's contract with Innova ends.

 

[Keller]

Why is everyone so skeptical of Paul going to Discraft? Have they not been the 2nd biggest manufacturer for like 35 years?

I can only speak from my observation in my area, so take that with a grain of salt.

In my area, Discraft is considered the white trash of Disc golf. An old company that has kind of fallen by the way side in it's presence. The only people around me that throw exclusively Discraft are old timers and the guys who need rides to league because of one too many DWIs.

If Discraft wants to up their game, increase they're media presence and create a new image, Paul could be the ticket. And I for one would like to see Discraft up it's efforts with some new plastics and a more professional look.

Some see Paul moving to Discraft as a step backwards (or sideways at best), but I think they're not seeing the bigger future possible picture. Then they're are those fan boys that just can't accept change.

I'll admit I was shocked, I thought Paul would throw Innova for life like Climo, but I got over it. One of the reasons I never gravitated towards any hero worship, they'll always let you down. Nobody can live up to someone elses expectations.

I don't know what the future hold for Paul, but I wish him the best and will still look forward to watching him play, even if it is with Discraft. I'll have to reconsider that statement however if he moves to DD!

 

[Chaser0909]

Vibram is a mainstream sporting goods company. I can easily see a big company purchasing one of the existing disc manufacturers rather than creating their own disc business out of whole cloth.

Not really a sporting goods company. They are in the shoe business. The great majority of their $ from soles sold though the military and other shoe manufacturers like Adidas, etc.

I was on the DG team for 3.5 years, and had some good conversations with Steve, and later more in depth business conversations with Jeff when he took over. It was not a good decision for Vibram to be in the DG world, and not because of the niche group of DGers that had an opinion of vibram.

The long and short of it is companies that big (nike, vibram, etc) are all going to make financial decisions first, and I don't see them entering a small market like disc golf. It was a failed experiment from vibram. Nike got out off golf even though then were profiting 20M (according to Jeff) because they could profit more by doing other things.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

 

[biscoe]

Not really a sporting goods company. They are in the shoe business. The great majority of their $ from soles sold though the military and other shoe manufacturers like Adidas, etc.

I was on the DG team for 3.5 years, and had some good conversations with Steve, and later more in depth business conversations with Jeff when he took over. It was not a good decision for Vibram to be in the DG world, and not because of the niche group of DGers that had an opinion of vibram.

The long and short of it is companies that big (nike, vibram, etc) are all going to make financial decisions first, and I don't see them entering a small market like disc golf. It was a failed experiment from vibram. Nike got out off golf even though then were profiting 20M (according to Jeff) because they could profit more by doing other things.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

IMO Vibram went about it exactly the wrong way- trying to create something from whole cloth with no one on the payroll with any real experience in the world of disc manufacturing. Steve could sell ice to Eskimos in the middle of winter but is not exactly a details guy. Buying a company like Discraft (just as an example) and retaining much of what they already do would make more sense to me.

Your point about Nike and the golf market is well taken though.

 

[Golden Tuna]

The major argument against a mainstream sporting goods company, like Nike or Callaway getting into DG, is that they would INSTANTLY lose credibility with the ball golf market, which is an infinitely larger market.
Hopefully, many years down the road, John Q Public will not see us a bunch of pot-smoking weirdos, but Mr Public definitely sees us that way now.
No way any golf equipment mfr is getting into DG.

I do not have access to any data that would suggest Calloway (or the like) would lose credibility with traditional ball golfers by diversifying their product portfolio, but it seems like a stretch (to me)...
I agree that a Nike, Adidas, Under Armor would likely have an easier road to capturing market share than a Calloway or Titleist.

That said, the innovation adoption curve suggests disc golf is likely in the middle of phase III (early majority). The next step is 'late majority' which likely brings a lot of new players to the manufacturing side.

Disc golf is growing quickly enough that we're garnering more attention from mainstream manufacturers. And, though the roots of the sport have an element of hippies and their pastimes, today's disc golf is vastly different (especially to John Q Public). Consider that most casual fans do not follow the sport outside what is posted to Jomez, CCDG, etc. So, they are actually seeing the professional side of it, not the deadbeat side you referenced.

Also, while I am familiar that most disc golfers seem to think ball golfers hate us, I've never seen evidence of that 'truth'. I'm not saying the stereotype doesn't exist. I AM saying that I believe those prejudices are based in social/economic class more than psychographic data such as recreational hobbies...

 

[John Hansen]

Paul goes to Wham-o.
Throws Frisbees.

 

[broomerang]

The major argument against a mainstream sporting goods company, like Nike or Callaway getiing into DG, is that they would INSTANTLY lose credibility with the ball golf market, which is an infinitely larger market.
Hopefully, many years down the road, John Q Public will not see us a bunch of pot-smoking weirdos, but Mr Public definitely sees us that way now.
No way any golf equipment mfr is getting into DG.

Didn't DD meet with Callaway awhile back? Pretty sure I saw this on the youtube.

They won't lose credibility in the ball golf market. Ball Golfers will not care if Callaway starts selling discs. Nor does a company like Callaway have to put their namesake directly on the product. They could acquire a small company and just put Salient by Callaway.

(Salient for fun, not for serious).

I don't think those manufacturers will start selling discs by the way. Not anytime soon and probably never but I think they would be very interested in getting involved in a growing market.

 

[lukeberthot]

Didn't DD meet with Callaway awhile back? Pretty sure I saw this on the youtube.

They won't lose credibility in the ball golf market. Ball Golfers will not care if Callaway starts selling discs. Nor does a company like Callaway have to put their namesake directly on the product. They could acquire a small company and just put Salient by Callaway.

(Salient for fun, not for serious).

I don't think those manufacturers will start selling discs by the way. Not anytime soon and probably never but I think they would be very interested in getting involved in a growing market.

Yeah, Calloway owns Ogio and Ogio partners with DD. Calloway is already starting to do some stuff with DG through that partnership.