uNicedmeMan1
* Ace Member *
Ryan C said:
Massive D for sure! I dunno how easy it looks though, Markus unwinds so quickly. I wonder what he threw right there?
-
Discover new ways to elevate your game with the updated DGCourseReview app!
It's entirely free and enhanced with features shaped by user feedback to ensure your best experience on the course. (App Store or Google Play)
DG DVD Rant
- Thread starter SpikeHyzer
- Start date
Massive D for sure! I dunno how easy it looks though, Markus unwinds so quickly. I wonder what he threw right there?
JR said:
In very small competitions, OK. But what about larger ones, like Worlds, or USDGC? Remember when Josh Anthon was down on the 7th card and came back to finish second overall (and almost won, if Feldberg had missed his putt) on the final round of the USDGC? If you've ever seen the video coverage of that tournament, you'll see how the omission of covering Josh's final round really killed the whole thing, and made it a huge disappointment. To cover that kind of drama, you'd need at least 7 cameras.
We need to get this kind of coverage for Worlds 2011. Its time to start assembling a team of videographers (we already have 4-5 on tap) who can provide complete coverage.
Peach
Newbie
Reading through these posts it's evident the community wants something better from its disc golf video production. Let's stop complaining about how Billy is the equivalent to John Madden and begin making some constructive criticisms. What could they change?
Video Quality / Distribution
Yes I agree that the video production quality could be improved. Many have already addressed the need for HD. With BluRay players only in 17% of US households (As of Oct 2010) does it make sense to go after this market? I personally would like to see the offering although with higher reproduction costs and lower sales of this high end video platform would you be willing to pay $25 for a BluRay version?
One thought I've kicked around is the ability for digital distribution; other than YouTube, these folks need to make money after all. Certainly iTunes would be the best way to quickly and inexpensively distribute this content in the highest video resolution possible although is it feasible for these small production studios? I don't know the iTunes distribution channel that well so I'm hoping someone can enlighten us.
Commentary
I would have to agree with almost everyone else that this is the worst part of almost all disc golf DVD's. I don't care if the commentator has an accent or even a lisp as long as they are providing meaningful insight. I'm not sure if I'm alone in this but for the most part I think the commentary would be much better if they spoke half as much as they already do. When you say something make it meaningful you're not on the radio so don't feel a need to fill "dead air".
Production
What would everyone like to see done? Frankly the fact that every DVD I watch has a different scorecard graphic is quite irritating. Sure I'm discounting if it's produced by different companies but should a production company find a overlay graphic that works best for them and stick with it to provide some consistency?
I would be overjoyed if someone could figure out a disc tracker line, much like the ball trackers in the PGA. I assume the only reason we haven't seen this yet is the cost of implementing these visuals.
What else would we (as a community) like to see? More video of AM's? More (or less) player interviews? Speak up and we might, by chance, be heard.
Video Quality / Distribution
Yes I agree that the video production quality could be improved. Many have already addressed the need for HD. With BluRay players only in 17% of US households (As of Oct 2010) does it make sense to go after this market? I personally would like to see the offering although with higher reproduction costs and lower sales of this high end video platform would you be willing to pay $25 for a BluRay version?
One thought I've kicked around is the ability for digital distribution; other than YouTube, these folks need to make money after all. Certainly iTunes would be the best way to quickly and inexpensively distribute this content in the highest video resolution possible although is it feasible for these small production studios? I don't know the iTunes distribution channel that well so I'm hoping someone can enlighten us.
Commentary
I would have to agree with almost everyone else that this is the worst part of almost all disc golf DVD's. I don't care if the commentator has an accent or even a lisp as long as they are providing meaningful insight. I'm not sure if I'm alone in this but for the most part I think the commentary would be much better if they spoke half as much as they already do. When you say something make it meaningful you're not on the radio so don't feel a need to fill "dead air".
Production
What would everyone like to see done? Frankly the fact that every DVD I watch has a different scorecard graphic is quite irritating. Sure I'm discounting if it's produced by different companies but should a production company find a overlay graphic that works best for them and stick with it to provide some consistency?
I would be overjoyed if someone could figure out a disc tracker line, much like the ball trackers in the PGA. I assume the only reason we haven't seen this yet is the cost of implementing these visuals.
What else would we (as a community) like to see? More video of AM's? More (or less) player interviews? Speak up and we might, by chance, be heard.
I'd love to start working with a production team on the commentary. I have worked in radio and hosted my own talk show for almost 20 years. When see or hear interviews it seems to me that they're asking questions that most already know the answer to instead of doing some research and asking or probing for something new and unique.
Frank Delicious
Banned
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2006
- Messages
- 16,244
John Madden was way better at commentary than Crump is.
jubuttib
* Ace Member *
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2009
- Messages
- 6,513
If you want to get disc golf coverage to the level of golf coverage, you'd need about 2-3 stationary cameras per hole, one man with a steadycam system and a Segway per every group playing and a couple of helicopters, and an armada of technicians, directors and other crew to keep it all together. Not going to happen anytime soon.
By the way JR, do any of you use any filters when filming? I can't help but think that a lot of the problems with the sky dimming everything else (and losing discs mid flight) could be avoided just by using a polarizing filter. If you are using them... Woah, there are some serious problems somewhere...
By the way JR, do any of you use any filters when filming? I can't help but think that a lot of the problems with the sky dimming everything else (and losing discs mid flight) could be avoided just by using a polarizing filter. If you are using them... Woah, there are some serious problems somewhere...
JR
* Ace Member *
Jub i don't use any filters on my camera. I did manual white balance correction on the fly at the Finnish Open 2010 when the sun went to clouds and came back constantly. I had better results with manual controls in dark places shooting to lit areas and vice versa. Filters help to a point but even polarizing filters can't tame everything.
Itunes seemed to limit people who can sell there. They also install all shorts of DRM software to your computer. Make sure it ain't a computer that needs to be doing something important. Such as video editing. Meh.
DG doesn't need the type of coverage that golf needs so technical requirements are somewhat less. If one really wishes for aerial films one would need to find an expert model airplane or helicopter flier with a camera compatible low noise to silent aircraft. I'd hate to see a competition to be spoiled by constant buzz or the aircraft colliding with something or shot down by a disc and worst of all risking the aircraft/cam combo falling on players, spectators or staff. We saw a drive from the second floor of Disc Golf Terminalen on Skellefteå Scandinavian Open course hole 7 that looked great. It was to the left of the thrower and only about 4 meters higher than the thrower. It looked good despite being obscured by the trees. I can imagine a steeper viewpoint down would make the footage even more pretty. I'm just not so sure if a real helicopter pushing down air fast would be appreciated by the players over their fairway
I haven't flown on a helicopter but a friend of mine flew on that unfortunate Sikorsky that later fell to the sea north of Tallinn, Estonia. He said it was like riding fast on a road of large pebble stones. Such a bumpy ride probably forces the use of large professional quality cameras. They also need fast autofocus and large zoom levels and good communication between the camera person and the pilot. Probably a ground director as well for positioning to a good place at the right time flying to the correct direction at a correct speed for good footage of the player(s) throw you want to film.
Speaking live on a language that is not your own is difficult to say the least. Doing it without a script, yikes. I couldn't pull that off properly in Swedish to my personal quality goals anyway. Native speech had a few troubles too from not having enough time to think, pointing the microphone the right direction, trying to find a good way to ask or say things.
Itunes seemed to limit people who can sell there. They also install all shorts of DRM software to your computer. Make sure it ain't a computer that needs to be doing something important. Such as video editing. Meh.
DG doesn't need the type of coverage that golf needs so technical requirements are somewhat less. If one really wishes for aerial films one would need to find an expert model airplane or helicopter flier with a camera compatible low noise to silent aircraft. I'd hate to see a competition to be spoiled by constant buzz or the aircraft colliding with something or shot down by a disc and worst of all risking the aircraft/cam combo falling on players, spectators or staff. We saw a drive from the second floor of Disc Golf Terminalen on Skellefteå Scandinavian Open course hole 7 that looked great. It was to the left of the thrower and only about 4 meters higher than the thrower. It looked good despite being obscured by the trees. I can imagine a steeper viewpoint down would make the footage even more pretty. I'm just not so sure if a real helicopter pushing down air fast would be appreciated by the players over their fairway
I haven't flown on a helicopter but a friend of mine flew on that unfortunate Sikorsky that later fell to the sea north of Tallinn, Estonia. He said it was like riding fast on a road of large pebble stones. Such a bumpy ride probably forces the use of large professional quality cameras. They also need fast autofocus and large zoom levels and good communication between the camera person and the pilot. Probably a ground director as well for positioning to a good place at the right time flying to the correct direction at a correct speed for good footage of the player(s) throw you want to film.
Speaking live on a language that is not your own is difficult to say the least. Doing it without a script, yikes. I couldn't pull that off properly in Swedish to my personal quality goals anyway. Native speech had a few troubles too from not having enough time to think, pointing the microphone the right direction, trying to find a good way to ask or say things.
jubuttib
* Ace Member *
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2009
- Messages
- 6,513
Not everything, oh no. But they'd definitely help. If there's one problem that really bothers me in the videos you guys have done is that the sky is usually so bright it makes everything else barely visible, or at least shows up as pure white. The wiki lists two applications for polarizing filters in photo(filmo)graphy: reducing glares and darkening the sky. You should try them out sometime to see how much they'd help.JR said:
JR
* Ace Member *
I'm really not that thrilled about using filters because i got much of the sun issues under control with manual white balance control. The other harder hit on image quality is that my camera produces better quality in bright light not in the shadows in the woods. In Finnish Open 2010 on dark wooded holes i had to add exposure time to 4x more than in the sun and there's noise in the colors. Add a filter to that darkening it even more...
I'm not talking about helicopters, guys. Though they do have those quad-copter things now with cameras...small and silent. I think there are technologies that disc golf video producers could pursue that are below the radar for bigger sports (like PGA), but which would greatly expand disc golf coverage in ways that are innovative and fun, and doesn't cost a great deal. Yes, we have to spend more, but the pay-off would be very much worth the effort and expense.
JR
* Ace Member *
There's very little time to switch lenses when filming. Especially if you adjust exposure time and white balance on the fly etc.
Disc Golf Live1
Par Member
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2004
- Messages
- 203
JR, I'd recommend using at least a UV filter at all times if only to protect your lens. Haven't used many others, myself.
Joe
Joe
what'shisname
Double Eagle Member
Disc Golf Live said:
A simple UV filter saved my lense just last week. Having a $30 filter shatter >>>>> having a $$$ lense shatter.
Chainchaser
Double Eagle Member
What really blows me away is how critical people are. Try doing something else besides sitting on your computer and typing a message. It's really not that easy. Take me for example I am trying to get Discgolftalkradio.com off the ground. I am not a professional announcer what so ever and never claimed to be. I have asked over and over again for help and have had some response but truly very little. I may suck but at least I am trying. I spent an hour on the radio with dave feldberg that was great and spent more than 2 hours on the radio with avery jenkins that was unbelievable. On that interview I at least had the disc golf guy come on which was not only a surprise but really an added relief for me.
Instead of whining try doing a video or a interview and see how hard it truly is. Heck I do videos of some other stuff and it really is unbelievable how hard it is to edit not to mention how long it takes. On the radio show it can take me up to 3 hours to edit an hour program. I edited the Avery interview and then realized that you could hear me breathing in the background. I had a cold and just didn't realize I was breathing so hard so I had to spend another 3 hours doing it over. I have had several people give some advice which is great and I appreciate it but still it's really not enough. You guys say that amateur announcers or maybe not quite up to par video are the problem but truly there are no real professional sports announcers out there wanting to do disc golf. I agree matt lacourte, billy crump, crazy, disc golf guy and many others are not the best and I think they would be the first to admit it, I know I am, but at least they are doing it which is more than most can say. It''s easy typing on a forum try actually doing it in front of a camera or mic. Sorry just a rant from the other side of things.
Instead of whining try doing a video or a interview and see how hard it truly is. Heck I do videos of some other stuff and it really is unbelievable how hard it is to edit not to mention how long it takes. On the radio show it can take me up to 3 hours to edit an hour program. I edited the Avery interview and then realized that you could hear me breathing in the background. I had a cold and just didn't realize I was breathing so hard so I had to spend another 3 hours doing it over. I have had several people give some advice which is great and I appreciate it but still it's really not enough. You guys say that amateur announcers or maybe not quite up to par video are the problem but truly there are no real professional sports announcers out there wanting to do disc golf. I agree matt lacourte, billy crump, crazy, disc golf guy and many others are not the best and I think they would be the first to admit it, I know I am, but at least they are doing it which is more than most can say. It''s easy typing on a forum try actually doing it in front of a camera or mic. Sorry just a rant from the other side of things.
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
Here's a quote from Teddy Roosevelt that helps keep me going:
"The credit in life goes not to the critic who stands on the sideline and points out where the strong stumble, but rather, the real credit in life goes to the man who is actually in the arena whose face may get marred by sweat and dust, who knows great enthusiasm and great devotion and learns to spend himself in a worthy cause, who at best if he wins knows the thrill of high achievement and if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that in life his place will never be with those very cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat."
Bumper sticker version: Keep on Truckin'
"The credit in life goes not to the critic who stands on the sideline and points out where the strong stumble, but rather, the real credit in life goes to the man who is actually in the arena whose face may get marred by sweat and dust, who knows great enthusiasm and great devotion and learns to spend himself in a worthy cause, who at best if he wins knows the thrill of high achievement and if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that in life his place will never be with those very cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat."
Bumper sticker version: Keep on Truckin'
inthedrift
Eagle Member
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2008
- Messages
- 696
Nice Chuck.
JR
* Ace Member *
I wish making videos would take only six times more editing time than real time. Not to mention the thirty takes for some clips in announcing lcgm8 had me take in hosting in English for Tali Open 2009 DVD and BD.
JimW
Double Eagle Member
My girlfriend has done some video work for college classes related to that field and has also done a music video for a band as well a couple minors things on the side; I know well how long it takes her to really get stuff right on the editing side, it's pretty hefty work. An interview will of course take shorter editing time since all you're doing is trying to eliminate dead time and mess-ups but if you're going to be serious about making quality stuff then you can't be getting exasperated at all with the amount of time it takes to get it right in post-production.
Chainchaser, you're asking for advice? I can't say I've actually watched your interviews but I did read the criticism of your first one so here's what I would say: Be prepared. That is by far the most important thing you can do to have a successful interview. You should definitely scrap the idea of letting people submit questions during your interview; it's great to let people do that but instead you should be having those things submitted to you well in advance of the actual interview so you can pick out the best ones, rephrase them into proper questions to ask, and make them part of your preparation. I like the ambition but only an experienced interviewer should be trying to do things on the fly if it can be avoided. Beyond that, make sure all your questions are down in the order you want to ask them, try to keep like questions together in a way that will make it almost a continuous conversation instead of a series of separate topics. Try to anticipate the type of things your subject might respond with so you can have potential follow-ups available. You may find it useful to prepare by sitting in front of the camera and asking some of your questions in the manner you would during the interview so you can review the tape and see if they're coming out as you intended. Most of all just keep it simple and don't try too hard, if you ask good questions and have a smooth dialogue then you'll probably have a good interview that people will enjoy watching. Good luck!
Chainchaser, you're asking for advice? I can't say I've actually watched your interviews but I did read the criticism of your first one so here's what I would say: Be prepared. That is by far the most important thing you can do to have a successful interview. You should definitely scrap the idea of letting people submit questions during your interview; it's great to let people do that but instead you should be having those things submitted to you well in advance of the actual interview so you can pick out the best ones, rephrase them into proper questions to ask, and make them part of your preparation. I like the ambition but only an experienced interviewer should be trying to do things on the fly if it can be avoided. Beyond that, make sure all your questions are down in the order you want to ask them, try to keep like questions together in a way that will make it almost a continuous conversation instead of a series of separate topics. Try to anticipate the type of things your subject might respond with so you can have potential follow-ups available. You may find it useful to prepare by sitting in front of the camera and asking some of your questions in the manner you would during the interview so you can review the tape and see if they're coming out as you intended. Most of all just keep it simple and don't try too hard, if you ask good questions and have a smooth dialogue then you'll probably have a good interview that people will enjoy watching. Good luck!
