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Disc Golf Coverage REinvented - FLYBOY video

your reputation is flawless here buddy, just like the rest of us. keep on keepin on. we will see you on the next one. :)
 
prerube said:
You said I was ignorant and I need to go back to prerubing people, how is that not saying the first thing to me? My point was not that this was the greatest technology, just that people are underestimating it. It has been used in large events to prove its self. I also understand not naming these events hurts my creibility, but I am not allowed to talk about specifics. I am sure your knowledge of cinematography dwarfs mine, but I will keep trying to make my point and I will always defend new013 no mater how big of a troll he is.
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Defending trolls no matter what? Sounds like he saved your child from being eaten by lions.?:confused:
 
This stuff's not even to market yet and it certainly won't be top quality footage with its size, but it's pretty cool nonetheless.

mecam_01.jpg


http://liliputing.com/2013/01/mecam...s-you-around-streams-video-to-your-phone.html
 
JTacoma03 said:
Last post on this - I'm trying to end the thread derail.



Scroll back a couple more pages. I never spoke to you, I just returned the attitude I was given. Fair enough that last comment was over the line, I apologize. I felt like you were attacking me on principle, not on substance of post.



Totally fair, I understand NDA's, and even more basic not stealing people's thunder when they've let you in their circle. I'll be the last person to flame you over that, so just say so. I'm not a hater, I want the sport to progress even if I'm not the one doing it. I think it takes all of our work and contributions.



I respect loyalty to your people. I'm loyal to Derek Hastings, Avery Jenkins, and the whole Chains crew - and I got flamed over it in a thread that has nothing to do with it, so I've got no qualm with you there...but you've got to understand (as I do) that if you go in blind on something for your boy regardless of trolldom not everybody just rolls over and takes it.

I'll repeat I didn't get on New's case because he had an opinion, but because he was being a jerk and a terrible ambassador for the sport and the DGCR site to another user for no reason. Please understand me, I'm in no way trying to act like a hotshot. I'm trying to lend what talent I may have, and share what knowledge I've racked 6-figures in student loans over, to make the disc golf community better and promote our sport. I don't pretend that I've made up the information I share - I'm passing on what I've learned from others and from my experiences. I'm a firm believer that you learn more from failures than successes, so take my posting on this topic as an admission of failing, in hopes that if others don't have to waste time making some of the mistakes I have that we can raise the average level of quality of product amongst disc golfers...and if I so happen to make something good then it's a product of my failures and others successes that I've studied.

I'm about the sport over myself, regardless of whatever my reputation is on here.

...and I think the copter camera is awesome. I hope that technology progresses and more stable and more shallow learning curved 'copters are built so that it can be implemented en masse. I think it's only a matter of time, and when it's feasible for me I'll be the first one lined up to get one.
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Fair enough.
I never flamed you in the chains threads for what it is worth.
New013 is a self professed troll, he is here to debate (much like myself most of the time) He will give you attitude, but he goes away if you dont feed him :)
Maybe I misread your statements, but I felt you were belittling the copter cam as a toy, with no viable use on a large commericial stage. Maybe I took your comments wrong.
 
NDABRUSH said:
Defending trolls no matter what? Sounds like he saved your child from being eaten by lions.?:confused:
Click to expand...

New013 is a DGCR Flyboy meet up participant I played with. I came into the thread thinking Jtacoma was using his background to bully New013. As I said, I may have misinterpreted him, but I was offended by how he presented the heli-cam as a little toy.
I appreciate what Jtacoma has tried to do with the sport and to my knowledge we have never had any hard feelings towards each other. I think it was a misunderstanding and the thread is getting back on track.
 
prerube said:
Fair enough.
I never flamed you in the chains threads for what it is worth.
New013 is a self professed troll, he is here to debate (much like myself most of the time) He will give you attitude, but he goes away if you dont feed him :)
Maybe I misread your statements, but I felt you were belittling the copter cam as a toy, with no viable use on a large commericial stage. Maybe I took your comments wrong.
Click to expand...

All good, water under the bridge. :thmbup:


The express version of my critique of the technique is that the technology as it stands now doesn't allow for an efficient workflow in shooting disc golf tournaments. It mainly boils down to money, for disc golf is it's not financially feasible across the board. You either need a larger crew or more expensive equipment in order to be properly efficient enough to shoot this type of event in a way that will cut together and sell.

On a calm, slow day on the course where you've got the time and are not restricted by tournament-play it's awesome. You'll get some sick shots for sure (as the flyboy vids proved).

If I were assigning fault it would be only 10-15% on the copter/camera mount itself. It's predominantly the logistics of tournaments and the limitations of the cameras used. You'll be compromising somewhere along the line if you don't have the $$ to invest.
 
JTacoma03 said:
All good, water under the bridge. :thmbup:


The express version of my critique of the technique is that the technology as it stands now doesn't allow for an efficient workflow in shooting disc golf tournaments. It mainly boils down to money, for disc golf is it's not financially feasible across the board. You either need a larger crew or more expensive equipment in order to be properly efficient enough to shoot this type of event in a way that will cut together and sell.

On a calm, slow day on the course where you've got the time and are not restricted by tournament-play it's awesome. You'll get some sick shots for sure (as the flyboy vids proved).

If I were assigning fault it would be only 10-15% on the copter/camera mount itself. It's predominantly the logistics of tournaments and the limitations of the cameras used. You'll be compromising somewhere along the line if you don't have the $$ to invest.
Click to expand...

Yeah I see what your point was. Monetarily it would not be feasable for disc golf, but it has the capabilities to do a great job if money were not an issue. This is where my problem was. I thought you implied the technology was not ready for the task, when it seems like you are saying the sport is not ready to afford the technology.
 
prerube said:
Yeah I see what your point was. Monetarily it would not be feasable for disc golf, but it has the capabilities to do a great job if money were not an issue. This is where my problem was. I thought you implied the technology was not ready for the task, when it seems like you are saying the sport is not ready to afford the technology.
Click to expand...

Yeah, in my opinion it's primarily the latter. It is somewhat an issue of technology as well. If you wanted to use broadcast quality cameras you'd need a much bigger copter and the ability to see what you were shooting live, and making all of that wireless on top of that means you'll be shelling out some $$.

Now...if some geniuses can incorporate some Raspberry Pi coding into this equation it might accelerate the whole process and make it feasible sooner...those things are seriously amazing.
 
I'm not too hip on all the latest wireless technology, but I believe that if it is not already here, using WiFi-Direct allows you to stream video from a phone to another phone.

Or you could use a Skype connection if you have a good signal.

I guess what I am trying to say is that if we are not there already, it is on the very near horizon that doing all this stuff wirelessly will be very affordable.
 
I was not thinking so much about live footage. I was thinking footage that could be edited into a DVD or internet broadcast. I guess I need to get more information before I can comment confidently on its live broadcast abilities. I know it has been used, but I do not know the extent it was used, the results (other than what has been posted)or the difficulties experienced.
 
prerube said:
I was not thinking so much about live footage. I was thinking footage that could be edited into a DVD or internet broadcast. I guess I need to get more information before I can comment confidently on its live broadcast abilities. I know it has been used, but I do not know the extent it was used, the results (other than what has been posted)or the difficulties experienced.
Click to expand...

Sorry - I'm not being clear here, let me re-phrase. When I'm saying "live" I mean the event itself is live, as in no second takes, no control over the action. Even if the footage is edited or time-delayed it would still be a live event...for example Clash DVD's and/or Tournament DVD's are live whereas Disc Golf Instructional DVD's would not be.

It's a very interesting dichotomy, and different skillsets as well as instinct-sets apply if you're camera operating or producing one type of video as opposed to the other...which is why efficient piloting combined with efficient shooting in an environment you don't control with no chance for second takes makes it a tough tool to implement because people with those high-level skillsets rarely come cheap.

Now...in Flyboy's case they have a unique opportunity, and hopefully they can utilize it to make their own distinct flavor of videos, like a "signature" camera shot.
 
Dave242 said:
I'm not too hip on all the latest wireless technology, but I believe that if it is not already here, using WiFi-Direct allows you to stream video from a phone to another phone.

Or you could use a Skype connection if you have a good signal.
Click to expand...

Check that video I posted of the time lapse - guy used an ad-hoc connection from his phone to the Raspberry Pi to control the settings on his camera remotely.
I guess what I am trying to say is that if we are not there already, it is on the very near horizon that doing all this stuff wirelessly will be very affordable.
Click to expand...
Agreed. I think in 5-8 years my critiques will be totally dismissed because the technology will hit the price point.
 
Hey Guys,

Glad to see most of you enjoyed this video. I made it back in the summer of 2011 when we first started filming with copters. I haven't done much DG related since then but with easy access to Flyboy maybe its time to make an update to this video. We did a few shots for Ritger to be used in an upcoming promo for Perkerson DG. I quickly cut a few of those shots together and thats whats out there right now.


Ive noticed a few questions regarding cameras, quality, live feed, and live broadcast, etc:

- I shot the Flyboy vid solo with our first copter without a live video feed. The pan was fixed which required me to maneuver the copter while operating the tilt of the camera and somewhat guessing on the framing of the shot. Our current copter is a 2 operator setup with the pilot moving the cameras position in space and the camera operator who controls tilt, roll, and unlimited pan.

- The copters routinely carry Red Epics so for quality, so thats the end of that discussion.. ha! We usually fly a Canon 5DmkIII but depending on the requirements Sony FS700, Reds, and hopefully a F5 or 55 when I can get my hands on one. The Flyboy vid was on a 7D.

Theres a good amount skill required to operate these on the camera side of things. If your shooting on a tripod you can quickly adjust settings, focus, and focal length by hand. With the copter, generally, all your settings are made ahead of time. Coordination between pilot and camera op is paramount to getting the shot.

- Live broadcast is definitely possible and with deep enough pockets full HD downlink is also no issue. The question becomes what type of shots would you use it for? Take golf for example: Live broadcast golf is basically a show for documenting a tournament. The focus more on getting the shot and less on making it look pretty. They do use beauty type shots in the broadcast but usually in the form of hole flyovers and lead in and out of commercial breaks. All those are pre-recorded and edited in. How many times do you see the live, wide angle, blimp shots during play? Some but not often. And is it really all that interesting? Where the copter excels is with shots that you can't get with a blimp, full size heli, or jib. For example, I can fly a shot under and between trees then out over the fairway to reveal the green. You can't get that any other way. In the Flyboy video most of the shots are at close range (sometimes 2 ft) and require planning and trust in your equipment, subjects, and skill. Ive known Kelly for over 15 years. Would it be possible to get those shots during a tournament? Of course, but that would not only be distracting to players competing but irresponsible and dangerous. If all your looking for is a hovering type higher shot then yes, that could easily be done… but thats not efficient use of the copter.

Brad
 
Welcome Brad! Thanks for bringing us all that info. This stuff is really exciting!!

Where might we go to follow your progress and see new material?
 
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