Is it unethical for a disc golf store owner

[New013]

the only possibly unethical thing dg stores are doing are buying discs divers bring in and reselling them. if there is any discussion to be had it's there.

 

[JedV]

the only possibly unethical thing dg stores are doing are buying discs divers bring in and reselling them. if there is any discussion to be had it's there.

Agreed. ^^^

To the OP, Retailers should be free to do whatever they choose. If their tactics fail, customers can speak with their wallets.

 

[CaptainAnhyzer]

This is going to be entertaining.

FTFY

 

[CaptainAnhyzer]

to sell the coolest/rare discs they receive from in their huge orders, on auction sites such as ebay, or the fb dollar disc auction page?

What's everyone's thoughts on this greed fueled activity?

Problem? Just the store owner making a quick extra stack of cash? Business as usual?

What's your stance on the issue?

If said store owner wants to profit off the gullibility of buyers, more power to him/her.

It's not greed that "fuels" this, only the absurd notion that a certain color is more valuable than the others.

 

[Johnny Conservative]

The capitalist in me says no.

 

[PhillyMatt]

Unethical? Absolutely not. It's extremely rare to find a dealer who DOESN'T do this.

HB is the man, btw.

 

[HB553]

I am guilty - I place the best of the new runs on DGCR - mark them up a dollar or two from normal, then ship them as fast as I can . . . . and use the rest for tournament players to pick from using HB Bucks so I can get rich at this sport after promoting for 40 years . . . . and when I show up an a tournament and the trucks are open with loads of disc that were "won" from me I just say good - at least I sold it once!

D feel free to buy the fund raising discs I am putting out over the next few weeks for BG AMs and resale them - we need to gather the $1000 up for the ace pool we put up for all 7-800 players, so buy two and sell one.

If you think the on line costs is too high - do not buy it. If it looks like a disc you want at a price you think is fair - buy it.

 

[Chainchaser]

Profit in disc golf is bad!!!:doh:

 

[SteezeOG]

its the only way to actually grow the sport and have tournaments which bring in some $.

I have purchased premium discs from many different places at near cost which is just sad really. That doesn't even include all the junk stock they have sitting there. Take a look at GGGT's latitude GRL stock :| :| latitude offering refunds?!

Then there are companies like DD which #growthesport but then sell **** for less then everyone else including other retailers which they wholesale products to so buyers are more likely to just order from DD directly vs a retailer which they supplied with the product. WTF IS THAT?!

Then you have the biggest disc golf manufacture in the sport thinking it has some business in the retail side of things when there already is very little meat on the bone and they could do much more by just supporting those smaller avenues and DISTRUBUTING products vs retailing limited runs of **** people actually WANT in high demand and creating some false BS secondary market when they have more then the means to fulfill whatever the demands are.

You're in support of businesses doing what they want in the spirit of capitalism on page one and then you post this drivel lol.

I don't know enough about the places you refer to first and last so I won't comment but I'd love to see how you come to your conclusion about DD's business practices because I know that not to be the case.

For starters their retail operations and the distribution are completely seperate. 100% They don't even take the coolest discs and load up their own local retail store with them most of those get sent out to their retailers. Some get auctioned on their facebook auction site and the profits from those do not go to the company they go directly into the pockets of disc golfers because it all goes to the cash payout in their tournaments that year. No one else is doing that to my knowledge. They could keep all that profit to grow their business but instead are doing it to fund the players and taking that approach to grow the sport.


Now back to their retail operation. The distribution center supplies their stores and the others in the US that sell Lat64 made discs. The stuff they sell in their shop is what goes online. If something is sitting on the shelf and not moving then of course they're going to put it on sale to move it quicker. Who doesn't do that? That's not undercutting their retail partners. Those aren't even their partners really that's competition. They wholesale to those people at the same rate as the rest of the county. After that it's your job as a store owner to compete for business. I don't see them undercutting anyone with their prices. On some stuff, like limited runs, they are actually more expensive. If you see a retailer charging more than DD is for an item it's because that retailer is trying to squeeze in some extra profit or maybe they are paying more for shipping and including that extra bit in the retail cost and charging a flat fee for shipping. Who knows it's all different depending on the retailer. Point is, you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Tjamesd]

I don't mind if they do that... I would rather they mark the price up to what the expected market value is and let the locals have a chance to buy it (then if it doesn't sell throw it online). This would give me incentive to support the local shops.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

I'd love to see how you come to your conclusion about DD's business practices because I know that not to be the case.

For starters their retail operations and the distribution are completely seperate. 100% They don't even take the coolest discs and load up their own local retail store with them most of those get sent out to their retailers. Some get auctioned on their facebook auction site and the profits from those do not go to the company they go directly into the pockets of disc golfers because it all goes to the cash payout in their tournaments that year. No one else is doing that to my knowledge. They could keep all that profit to grow their business but instead are doing it to fund the players and taking that approach to grow the sport.
:wall::wall::wall:

Now back to their retail operation. The distribution center supplies their stores and the others in the US that sell Lat64 made discs. The stuff they sell in their shop is what goes online. If something is sitting on the shelf and not moving then of course they're going to put it on sale to move it quicker. Who doesn't do that? That's not undercutting their retail partners. Those aren't even their partners really that's competition. They wholesale to those people at the same rate as the rest of the county. After that it's your job as a store owner to compete for business. I don't see them undercutting anyone with their prices. On some stuff, like limited runs, they are actually more expensive. If you see a retailer charging more than DD is for an item it's because that retailer is trying to squeeze in some extra profit or maybe they are paying more for shipping and including that extra bit in the retail cost and charging a flat fee for shipping. Who knows it's all different depending on the retailer. Point is, you don't know what you're talking about.

wow talk about a conflict of interest.

This is the kind of stuff im talking about which is very common from equipment to swag whatever... Plus you have the incentive of the "team" or whatever which even yourself said you get to order at basically wholesale prices so why would someone buy anywhere else if they are a DD head? You don't even pay retail!
https://www.dynamicdiscs.net/Dynamic-Discs-Bombman-Disc-Golf-T-Shirt-p/4044.htm

http://communitydiscs.com/dynamic-discs-cotton-t-shirt-bombman/

opcorn: I've issued refunds on below MSRP items which people purchased preorder due to DD coming out on release day with a much lower price than I ALREADY WAS OFFERING AT A DISCOUNT.... STFU.

 

[SteezeOG]

wow talk about a conflict of interest.

This is the kind of stuff im talking about which is very common from equipment to swag whatever... Plus you have the incentive of the "team" or whatever which even yourself said you get to order at basically wholesale prices so why would someone buy anywhere else if they are a DD head? You don't even pay retail!
https://www.dynamicdiscs.net/Dynamic-Discs-Bombman-Disc-Golf-T-Shirt-p/4044.htm

http://communitydiscs.com/dynamic-discs-cotton-t-shirt-bombman/

opcorn: I've issued refunds on below MSRP items which people purchased preorder due to DD coming out on release day with a much lower price than I ALREADY WAS OFFERING AT A DISCOUNT.... STFU.

lol why so mad? So you chose to offer a discount to people to keep their business? That's your choice. Did you not choose to buy from a wholesaler knowing they are also a retailer and the biggest one at that I believe, or at least top five. You would expect that they might have the ability to offer a lower price and sell more units than you right? You have to win your customers in other ways. In fact you linked a guy who has done just that. Justin at community discs is not successful because he's out there offering prices that can't be beat. He's a straight up good salesman who understands that most people are willing to pay more and wait longer to have the best customer service. Which he provides.

Now I don't know if Disc Nation wholesales their Lat64 discs through DD. I imagine they deal with Lat64 directly and then their discs are simply shipped through DD distribution as it's the hub for that in the US. Now disc nation or it's affiliate companies offer those great 9.99 disc of the day deals or whatever. DD isn't complaining about that. You can see all that business getting sucked over to disc nation for that great deal. Who wouldn't take advantage? If you are already having to shop online and not local you are paying shipping so you might as well get like $5 off per disc right? That's just smart business. They stock up on that disc and they move a ton of them that day. Are you going to whine that you can't beat that price so it's unfair?

Like I said DD distribution is just the hub for wholesaling. Their retail business is performed the same way as it always was and they compete with other retailers for business the same way. If they want to mark down items to move them that's their choice.

How is it a conflict of interest? They've already been wholesaling for ages and been doing it big for years. Why is it suddenly now bad when the scale of the operation has just increased? Why are you sour on a business for expanding and growing? Jealousy?

As for your example it's just silly. Community discs likely ordered a small quantity of those shirts and is selling them for $3 more because of that.

DD has those shirts MADE for them or might even screen print them in house but I don't think so. They aren't really set up for that large scale yet I don't think. So it makes sense that they have a much bigger stock of those shirts and want to move them quick. So they are selling them at the lowest price they can. Just like I already said. They competitively price items they need to move quicker. That's what capitalism and business is about. Competition. If justin at community discs wasn't able to sell those DD shirts at 14.99 guess what? They wouldn't be on his site to buy would they? His customers will order his stuff because they want him to have their business and they are willing to buy it from him at that price. He is simply offering his customers what they want at the price he wants to sell it. DD is doing the same. Get a clue bud.

Oh and I never said I get wholesale prices. We said there are limited stamped discs done exclusively for team trilogy that are priced near wholesale. I think that's been all of 3 discs I've ordered that way. A couple blend judges and one moonshine havoc. Other than those 3 discs and 3 $1.00 bag tags I haven't even bought anything else because I've got probably 300 discs in storage boxes. I don't want more discs. I'm actually pulling 5 discs today to send to random people as surprise christmas discs simply to have some free space in storage for some new purchases. This argument has nothing to do with me, what I buy, or what I pay for it. It has to do with the concepts of business and what you don't understand about them.

 

[World Eater]

DD Facebook : "We found a box of prototype runs in someone's car and we're going to sell them to you for $30 a pop because that's what we think we can get"

seems a little shady to me. Even if their business is 100% separate and collusion free, the retailers that I would care to buy from are the ones trying to hook me up not the ones trying to gouge me. I bought my Freedoms for $20 each from KW while DD is trying to sell special pink ones for as much as possible on facebook. I've actually got most of my coolest looking Westside discs from KW at his reg. price and free shipping.

All the elasto and fluid stuff DD auctioned on FB pre-release seemed pretty uncool too. I'm sure they gave themselves reasons why they were allowed to get top dollar from school of the new plastic addicts before anyone else was allowed to sell their merc. but it still makes me not want to do business with them.

 

[mashnut]

That's the thing though. The only people paying extra are the people who have to have a very specific disc or have to have something before everyone else. That's how the rest of the world works too, you can pay extra to have something special, or you can wait a bit and buy the standard version of something at a lower price. Nobody's being forced to pay those prices, and the fact that this is happening says that to someone those prices are worth it. I would never personally go pay that much or work that hard for a disc I can get later at normal retail prices, but I'm not going to say that the retailers are bad people for offering that option to folks with the inclination and disposable income to make those purchases.

 

[shawny0123]

lol why so mad? So you chose to offer a discount to people to keep their business? That's your choice. Did you not choose to buy from a wholesaler knowing they are also a retailer and the biggest one at that I believe, or at least top five. You would expect that they might have the ability to offer a lower price and sell more units than you right? You have to win your customers in other ways. In fact you linked a guy who has done just that. Justin at community discs is not successful because he's out there offering prices that can't be beat. He's a straight up good salesman who understands that most people are willing to pay more and wait longer to have the best customer service. Which he provides.

Now I don't know if Disc Nation wholesales their Lat64 discs through DD. I imagine they deal with Lat64 directly and then their discs are simply shipped through DD distribution as it's the hub for that in the US. Now disc nation or it's affiliate companies offer those great 9.99 disc of the day deals or whatever. DD isn't complaining about that. You can see all that business getting sucked over to disc nation for that great deal. Who wouldn't take advantage? If you are already having to shop online and not local you are paying shipping so you might as well get like $5 off per disc right? That's just smart business. They stock up on that disc and they move a ton of them that day. Are you going to whine that you can't beat that price so it's unfair?

Like I said DD distribution is just the hub for wholesaling. Their retail business is performed the same way as it always was and they compete with other retailers for business the same way. If they want to mark down items to move them that's their choice.

How is it a conflict of interest? They've already been wholesaling for ages and been doing it big for years. Why is it suddenly now bad when the scale of the operation has just increased? Why are you sour on a business for expanding and growing? Jealousy?

As for your example it's just silly. Community discs likely ordered a small quantity of those shirts and is selling them for $3 more because of that.

DD has those shirts MADE for them or might even screen print them in house but I don't think so. They aren't really set up for that large scale yet I don't think. So it makes sense that they have a much bigger stock of those shirts and want to move them quick. So they are selling them at the lowest price they can. Just like I already said. They competitively price items they need to move quicker. That's what capitalism and business is about. Competition. If justin at community discs wasn't able to sell those DD shirts at 14.99 guess what? They wouldn't be on his site to buy would they? His customers will order his stuff because they want him to have their business and they are willing to buy it from him at that price. He is simply offering his customers what they want at the price he wants to sell it. DD is doing the same. Get a clue bud.

Oh and I never said I get wholesale prices. We said there are limited stamped discs done exclusively for team trilogy that are priced near wholesale. I think that's been all of 3 discs I've ordered that way. A couple blend judges and one moonshine havoc. Other than those 3 discs and 3 $1.00 bag tags I haven't even bought anything else because I've got probably 300 discs in storage boxes. I don't want more discs. I'm actually pulling 5 discs today to send to random people as surprise christmas discs simply to have some free space in storage for some new purchases. This argument has nothing to do with me, what I buy, or what I pay for it. It has to do with the concepts of business and what you don't understand about them.

I think part of what the other poster is trying to say is that there is a bit of conflict of interest with DD as a manufacturer and retailer all in one. DD IS the only place a dealer can order DD, Latitude, Westside at true wholesale prices. You can no longer go straight to Latitude and get an order shipped across the pond to your business. While other manufacturers are also selling their products to some extent through their own online websites as well, none of them are running a true disc golf retail business that also sells other brands along with their own. While I think DD is one of the easiest and nicest wholesalers to work with, I think it would be silly if you didn't see where one could justify them having a conflict of interest.

 

[World Eater]

I have no problem with your standard retailer cherry picking their wares and auctioning the sweetest looking stuff. if you were trying to offer the rest of your stuff as low as possible to the average disc golfer, the collector types are subsidizing your ability to hook people up. Even if you're just trying to increase your profit, I dont really care. I might not buy from you unless you happen to have a lava king but I dont think you're a bad person.

DD is a separate issue in my opinion. If they are truly 100% unrelated with the mfg. business then they should change their name. The impression I have is that they arent completely separate and not dissimilar from the Innova Pro Shop. They get special stuff, they get it first, and the FB auctions and pre-releasing merc seems uncool - not fair to other retailers taking advantage of the plastic junkies in a way they dont allow others to.

 

[SteezeOG]

I think part of what the other poster is trying to say is that there is a bit of conflict of interest with DD as a manufacturer and retailer all in one. DD IS the only place a dealer can order DD, Latitude, Westside at true wholesale prices. You can no longer go straight to Latitude and get an order shipped across the pond to your business. While other manufacturers are also selling their products to some extent through their own online websites as well, none of them are running a true disc golf retail business that also sells other brands along with their own. While I think DD is one of the easiest and nicest wholesalers to work with, I think it would be silly if you didn't see where one could justify them having a conflict of interest.

I addressed all that in the post though. Nothing is new. They have been wholesalers for a while now.

The only difference is that DD is the US hub for distribution of Lat64 discs. The only change to retailers is you get your discs shipped from somewhere in the US now and you deal with ordering through them. That doesn't effect your retail operation vs. the retail operation of DD. It simply doesn't. One manufacturer now relies on them to distribute for them in this country. If a retailer wants to get upset about that then they should be getting upset with Lat64 not DD. If there was another retailer large enough to handle the distribution needs for them then they should have gone after that.

You can't fault DD for growing their business and wanting to become the US distributor for the manufacturer of their own discs. Like I said it's completely separate. I didn't know how that worked either so I asked and was told. They supply their own retail stores just the same as their other retailers. In fact I know that many retailers have gotten new discs and had them on the shelves days before any of the 3 DD retail shops made them available and I'm living 3 minutes from where all those discs are shipped and stored yet some disc consumers in Ohio could go buy them before myself. did I whine and complain about it? Not at all. It's logistics, it's business. It's the system we have. You can't fault one company for growing bigger than others when at the same time you're trying to get every edge you can to grow your own business.

 

[SteezeOG]

I have no problem with your standard retailer cherry picking their wares and auctioning the sweetest looking stuff. if you were trying to offer the rest of your stuff as low as possible to the average disc golfer, the collector types are subsidizing your ability to hook people up. Even if you're just trying to increase your profit, I dont really care. I might not buy from you unless you happen to have a lava king but I dont think you're a bad person.

DD is a separate issue in my opinion. If they are truly 100% unrelated with the mfg. business then they should change their name. The impression I have is that they arent completely separate and not dissimilar from the Innova Pro Shop. They get special stuff, they get it first, and the FB auctions and pre-releasing merc seems uncool - not fair to other retailers taking advantage of the plastic junkies in a way they dont allow others to.

Please read about the auctions and know the facts before you made assumptions. Those auctions are not for their business profit. All of the profit that comes from the DD facebook auction page sources the added cash from the tournaments they host in the year. The GBO has one of the highest payouts for any tournament alone, heck I would bet it's the top cash payout for any NT this year but maybe not. That money comes from disc golfers to pay disc golfers. It's never been about getting anyone rich at DD. Rusco is about the least greedy business dude I've ever met. He wears his own clothing and basic jeans. He drives older cars and lives very modestly. About the only thing I ever see him doing for himself is trying to take a vacation once a year when he has time. He gives up a ton of money and time away from his family to make disc golf bigger. Funding clubs, charity events, donating a lot, etc. He's bent over backwards to pull off great events and so much more. The sport could use 50 more just like him. Am I a friend sticking up for a friend? Sure, but that doesn't mean it's not true. He doesn't get rich from his business and that's not his goal. He truly wants to take disc golf to the next level because disc golf is what made him a career and kept him from having to get a real job he didn't want.

 

[SteezeOG]

DD Facebook : "We found a box of prototype runs in someone's car and we're going to sell them to you for $30 a pop because that's what we think we can get"

seems a little shady to me. Even if their business is 100% separate and collusion free, the retailers that I would care to buy from are the ones trying to hook me up not the ones trying to gouge me. I bought my Freedoms for $20 each from KW while DD is trying to sell special pink ones for as much as possible on facebook. I've actually got most of my coolest looking Westside discs from KW at his reg. price and free shipping.

All the elasto and fluid stuff DD auctioned on FB pre-release seemed pretty uncool too. I'm sure they gave themselves reasons why they were allowed to get top dollar from school of the new plastic addicts before anyone else was allowed to sell their merc. but it still makes me not want to do business with them.

Like I said..you don't know what the auctions are for obvsiously. It's not part of their get money business. They recognized that their discs and the discs of other manufacturers sometimes command big dollars from collectors willing to pay those prices so they had a great idea. Let's auction them off on Facebook and use that money to give back to the players through added cash to our tournaments. Disc golfers funding disc golfers. Everyone wins. The collectors get access to discs they desire and the tournament players might actually get enough payout to fill their gas tank to the next event.

One of the cool things about capitalism is choice so you're within your right not to do business with them. I'm sure they'd love to have your business but it's not worth fighting over. It's your right to choose. Just like they have a right to say hey this is our product, here's the online street date. No one sell before that date please. You're still allowed to sell the new releases locally as soon as you receive them they just don't want people posting new releases online right away before their other retailers receive them and can do the same. It's only fair. If you think them pre-releasing one disc for auction or even 3 has effected your business then I think you're mistaken. It's going to fund players. I don't know how anyone can be against that idea. I think it's awesome. If innova did all that then every event would have more added cash.

I'm not even against what innova does with their pro shop. It's their company. As a consumer yes I would be pissed and I would not order a limited disc that is limited simply because they can release it and sell out in one day charging more. I wouldn't cry about though I'd just not buy it.

 

[shawny0123]

I addressed all that in the post though. Nothing is new. They have been wholesalers for a while now.

The only difference is that DD is the US hub for distribution of Lat64 discs. The only change to retailers is you get your discs shipped from somewhere in the US now and you deal with ordering through them. That doesn't effect your retail operation vs. the retail operation of DD. It simply doesn't. One manufacturer now relies on them to distribute for them in this country. If a retailer wants to get upset about that then they should be getting upset with Lat64 not DD. If there was another retailer large enough to handle the distribution needs for them then they should have gone after that.

You can't fault DD for growing their business and wanting to become the US distributor for the manufacturer of their own discs. Like I said it's completely separate. I didn't know how that worked either so I asked and was told. They supply their own retail stores just the same as their other retailers. In fact I know that many retailers have gotten new discs and had them on the shelves days before any of the 3 DD retail shops made them available and I'm living 3 minutes from where all those discs are shipped and stored yet some disc consumers in Ohio could go buy them before myself. did I whine and complain about it? Not at all. It's logistics, it's business. It's the system we have. You can't fault one company for growing bigger than others when at the same time you're trying to get every edge you can to grow your own business.

The "only difference" you state above is a very big difference in how one could classify their operations. Being a wholesaler of discs is a lot different once you start being a manufacturer and also become the ONLY real wholesaler for the Trilogy brands. Like I said I like DD and the way they do business as a manufacturer but there is no question a conflict of interest can be drawn when you operate a true retail disc golf operation and also are a manufacturer. Prices also went up for wholesale pricing when DD took control of distribution of the Trilogy brands in the US. I'm also sure DD is making more money on the wholesale operations because as I stated earlier all other retailers now need to order through them for Trilogy plastic. What this means is retailers who had been going direct through Latitude are now filling the pockets of their direct competitor (DD) by being forced to order wholesale through them. It might only be .25 cents on a disc DD is making but the point is DD is still making money off it's competitors. That's a conflict of interest, retail stores aside, DD still runs a huge retail ecommerce website that competes against other retailers.