[Putters] Putter for driving practice

[SD86]

I'm inclined to agree with some of SD's points. Arm speed is probably a real determinant of one's distance ceiling. Most folks probably have a much lower ceiling than the DG nerds of DGCR.

To think the sky is the limit, and that practice will allow you to keep adding distance past a certain point is wishful thinking.

It would be like saying that if I spent months working on my form, I could eventually throw a baseball 100 mph. Not with my arm, or most folks' arms for that matter.

On topic, I do play almost exclusively putter rounds in winter, and I do notice a lot of improvement once spring comes around. so I agree with the sentiment of the original post.

Thank you. And I'm sure that all-putter rounds and improving one's form will maximize distance potential. I was never saying to not practice nor try to improve one's form...

 

[rgt286]

I agree with some of SD's points as well. Just like there is a minority of people who can throw a football 70 yards on a rope or a disc 600 feet on a golf line, there is also a minority of people who simply cannot get a disc or football out as far as most of us. Most people fall into the middle ground (close to the mean). This is true in basically any talent that can be at least somewhat quantified in our world whether it be mathematics, memorization, athleticism, or take-your-pick.

However, OP, do go practice your form with putters (and Comets). It will make you better, and based on odds, you'll probably get to a point where you can get your putters out to 250' right in front of you, but there are always exceptions. You never know, you may end up one of the freak 400' putter throwers!

 

[AlexJensen86]

I can agree with some of what SD says also. However I disagree with allot of the advice given by SD in threads like this one as it flies in the face of what I have learned in my process as well as the majority of players I know..such as my wife. IF you are willing to drop all you think you know about your throw a and rebuild it has been my experience that 250 with a putter is attainable. Your scores will probably suffer till muscle memory is built up and you start getting consistent but I have seen this work for people of all ages and sizes. Maybe 200 is all u get to. Point is that it's consistent and easy for you.

And NO throwing a roc 300 doesn't mean you should throw destros 5 bills. thinking that shows a lack of understanding that shouldn't be spread around.

 

[zendragon]

I think the idea of arm speed is a bit of a misconception when we're talking 250' with a putter. I don't throw faster than I used to when I turned my putters over on a drive. I throw much slower with cleaner form. My arm muscles have very little to do with it.

I don't disagree that there can be limitations. I am really not that athletic, and just because I can throw a putter 250' doesn't mean I can bomb a driver. I am usually only a 300' thrower, maybe pushing 350' on a good day.

To the OP. I went out and threw an Aviar I borrowed from a friend today on a couple drives. It is a good driving putter. I was impressed with how little effort it took.

 

[Monkeypaws]

I think the idea of arm speed is a bit of a misconception when we're talking 250' with a putter. I don't throw faster than I used to when I turned my putters over on a drive. I throw much slower with cleaner form. My arm muscles have very little to do with it.

I don't disagree that there can be limitations. I am really not that athletic, and just because I can throw a putter 250' doesn't mean I can bomb a driver. I am usually only a 300' thrower, maybe pushing 350' on a good day.

To the OP. I went out and threw an Aviar I borrowed from a friend today on a couple drives. It is a good driving putter. I was impressed with how little effort it took.

Distance milestones are arbitrary pissing matches. 250' with a putter? Why not 300'? or 200'?

 

[MrGlass01]

i love throwing putters far. and by far i mean like 300 feet at best for me. why 300 feet? the field i throw in is 320 feet to the back line. when i started years ago i could hit about 200 with a putter. with practice i have gotten better. but throwing a putter 300 feet does not mean i can throw other discs really far. i have a nose angle issue. putters hide this. drivers do not. i can throw fairways about 330. when i get my form down i can mash them to 360/370. putter rounds helped me to throw putters better. field practice helps me to throw everything better. set a goal and hit your goal nothing else matters.

 

[grotto]

Everyone has limitations, no one denies that. But some folks mentally limit themselves before they can ever discover their true limitations. I'm not saying SD86 doesn't have some valid points, but every time a thread starts where someone wants to improve, he comes in like a mother hen projecting his limitations like a mantra. Every one can improve if they care to, even if they have limitations.

He argues against the "how to build a bag" thread without ever trying it, he argues against the Comet/putter field work advise "having to recent knowledge" never thrown a Comet, yet gives endless reviews on molds like he's a Guru. All would be fine if he just added the disclaimer that he can't get the discs he throws up to speed, but he doesn't.

I'm not trying to be mean, but it's frustrating trying to help someone who's trying to improve only to be sabotaged by enabling advise.

 

[armiller]

I'm coming in late here, and maybe not adding much to the discussion. I've only recently started to love my Comets, and I have a few. But the first thing I noticed with them is that I need to throw them "differently" to get them to fly well. Maybe they're similar to putters in that the grip is quite a bit different, and they need some extra altitude to get distance and fly like they should. Drivers, fairways, and even Buzzz-type midranges seem to me to do best with a flatter release angle, or at least a "different feel." I guess I still have a hard time translating "Comet/putter" training to drivers.

Now I do admit I have plenty of room for improvement, and have been looking into Wizards for driving practice. From what I read here, Wizards are too overstable? Is that a consensus, or would a Wizard be a decent starting place?

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Okay, y'all are not getting my point so I will try one last time.

There are some people who will NEVER... *EVER*... be able to throw a (PDGA-legal)putter 250 ft. and/or a (PDGA-legal) Leopard 300+ ft. Ever. It has nothing to do with injuries. It has nothing to do with form. It is because some people's big muscles were programmed anti-athletically when they were 3 years old or less. Once the big muscles are programmed, which happens by the time a kid is 3 years old, that's it, the brain shuts it off and it can NEVER be programmed again.

I am sure y'all have seen kids (and/or adults) that cannot throw a baseball or softball any distance or with any speed, that cannot swing a bat at any speed at all. NO amount of practice, muscle-building or yoga is going to help them. They are physically unable to, and never will be able to.

Throwing a disc for distance requires arm SPEED... not raw muscle power, not strength, But SPEED. Will Schusterick is not a muscular guy, but he has arm SPEED. Ditto that for others.

Those that do not have that arm speed... never, EVER will. And therefore, they never, EVER will be able to legally and legitimately throw a putter 250 ft. or a Leopard 300 ft.

And ganging up on me with vicious personal attacks does not make what I am saying any less true. Ten years of experience is NOT going to make some people magically be physically able to do it. That's just the bottom line, and saying that it's possible for ANYONE is giving some people a false hope that NO amount of experience or practice or work on form will make possible. They can have perfect form, but if they don't have the arm speed, it WILL NOT MATTER, they'll never get that Leopard to 300 ft. nor that putter to 250 ft.

And I will continue to call these fallacies out when I see them.

Lol. Are you trolling with this same old song?

 

[Snap-it]

Okay, y'all are not getting my point so I will try one last time.

There are some people who will NEVER... *EVER*... be able to throw a (PDGA-legal)putter 250 ft. and/or a (PDGA-legal) Leopard 300+ ft. Ever. It has nothing to do with injuries. It has nothing to do with form. It is because some people's big muscles were programmed anti-athletically when they were 3 years old or less. Once the big muscles are programmed, which happens by the time a kid is 3 years old, that's it, the brain shuts it off and it can NEVER be programmed again.

I am sure y'all have seen kids (and/or adults) that cannot throw a baseball or softball any distance or with any speed, that cannot swing a bat at any speed at all. NO amount of practice, muscle-building or yoga is going to help them. They are physically unable to, and never will be able to.

Throwing a disc for distance requires arm SPEED... not raw muscle power, not strength, But SPEED. Will Schusterick is not a muscular guy, but he has arm SPEED. Ditto that for others.

Those that do not have that arm speed... never, EVER will. And therefore, they never, EVER will be able to legally and legitimately throw a putter 250 ft. or a Leopard 300 ft.

And ganging up on me with vicious personal attacks does not make what I am saying any less true. Ten years of experience is NOT going to make some people magically be physically able to do it. That's just the bottom line, and saying that it's possible for ANYONE is giving some people a false hope that NO amount of experience or practice or work on form will make possible. They can have perfect form, but if they don't have the arm speed, it WILL NOT MATTER, they'll never get that Leopard to 300 ft. nor that putter to 250 ft.

And I will continue to call these fallacies out when I see them.

Madness! Very sad...

 

[Disc of Cheese]

I've driven scales, serpents, rhynos, an envy, magics, and wizards/lizards. Serpents are really reliable, and moving to them for driving from rhynos/envy felt like a step forward, but the first wizard I threw turned and burned hard. It's taken quite a bit of adjustment and practice to get the wizards out there, but when I did they were going farther than the serpents. And that distance translated to the serpents too. So IME the wizard can be a great teaching disc.

 

[clard]

..., but the first wizard I threw turned and burned hard. It's taken quite a bit of adjustment and practice to get the wizards out there, but when I did they were going farther than the serpents.

This is exactly the lesson of throwing putters for distance. Sure, the 250' is an arbitrary bench mark, but it's one that many of us have seen work first hand. It's the reason we recommend working with even tougher discs like a Comet. They teach lessons you just won't learn by throwing faster and more OAT tolerant discs.

Throw your Aviars. They are great.

 

[Streets]

^Bingo. Older school discs like Rocs, KC Aviars, Comets, Wizards etc. will teach you great form. Roc's are an OS mold, but if you aren't clean, you will turn and burn them similar to a Wizard.

 

[blackcatsmith]

Probably has been said but just in case: practice with a Ultimate disc.

 

[MonkeyGrass]

I work on my form all the time. Again, working on form is NOT the issue here. It's saying that working on form will allow ANYONE to throw a putter 250 feet, when there are some people who, even with PERFECT form, do not and never will have the arm speed to legally and legitimately throw a PDGA-approved putter 250 feet.

if you want to continue to misrepresent what I've said, go ahead, but that's what it is: misrepresentation.

Nobody is "mis-representing" you, Negative Nancy.

You just seem hell bent on making excuses for poor form, and a lack of desire to correct it.

Your "arm speed" point could apply to certain discs... like speed 8-9 and above. Those discs must be thrown at a certain velocity or they simply won't fly right.

However, we're talking about putters. Which are typically speed 2 or 3 discs. If you can't throw a disc at speed 2-4, then you are seriously injured and should not be on a disc golf course. As I stated, I've got 3 bad discs in my neck (and nerve damage down my right arm which led to muscle atrophy) and *I* can throw a putter 250+. If I can do it, anyone can. Comparing it to a small % of gifted athletes who can throw 90+mph fastballs is lunacy. Yes there are some freak athletes in pro sports that can do things mere mortals like us only dream of. Throwing a disc 250+ is NOT one of those things!

The entire point of my post was simply this -

I used to think like you. That with my physical limitations, I would never be able to throw a putter (or any other disc) very far - certainly not this mythical 250+ that folks seem to reference!

I was WRONG. Form, Form, FORM! It has very little to do with arm speed, and more to do with a smooth fluid (OAT-free) release with some snap at the end. You don't have to be a gorilla-armed 22 yr old athlete to throw a disc well. ESPECIALLY a putter.

If you continually spend your time reinforcing your negative viewpoint - that you could NEVER throw that far - instead of working on it with a positive approach, then yeah - you're right. You'll never be able to do it. :thmbdown::wall:

However, if you open your mind to the *possibility* that maybe, perhaps, one day... you just might be able to, then who knows what could happen. :thmbup:

 

[Disc of Cheese]

^Bingo. Older school discs like Rocs, KC Aviars, Comets, Wizards etc. will teach you great form. Roc's are an OS mold, but if you aren't clean, you will turn and burn them similar to a Wizard.

Exactly, seeing an 'overstable' mold leave your hands and do the exact opposite of what it is 'supposed' to do is a real eye opener.

 

[Snap-it]

Nobody is "mis-representing" you, Negative Nancy.

You just seem hell bent on making excuses for poor form, and a lack of desire to correct it.

Your "arm speed" point could apply to certain discs... like speed 8-9 and above. Those discs must be thrown at a certain velocity or they simply won't fly right.

However, we're talking about putters. Which are typically speed 2 or 3 discs. If you can't throw a disc at speed 2-4, then you are seriously injured and should not be on a disc golf course. As I stated, I've got 3 bad discs in my neck (and nerve damage down my right arm which led to muscle atrophy) and *I* can throw a putter 250+. If I can do it, anyone can. Comparing it to a small % of gifted athletes who can throw 90+mph fastballs is lunacy. Yes there are some freak athletes in pro sports that can do things mere mortals like us only dream of. Throwing a disc 250+ is NOT one of those things!

The entire point of my post was simply this -

I used to think like you. That with my physical limitations, I would never be able to throw a putter (or any other disc) very far - certainly not this mythical 250+ that folks seem to reference!

I was WRONG. Form, Form, FORM! It has very little to do with arm speed, and more to do with a smooth fluid (OAT-free) release with some snap at the end. You don't have to be a gorilla-armed 22 yr old athlete to throw a disc well. ESPECIALLY a putter.

If you continually spend your time reinforcing your negative viewpoint - that you could NEVER throw that far - instead of working on it with a positive approach, then yeah - you're right. You'll never be able to do it. :thmbdown::wall:

However, if you open your mind to the *possibility* that maybe, perhaps, one day... you just might be able to, then who knows what could happen. :thmbup:

^ yep

 

[Pbmercil]

I had the pleasure to play a round this weekend with a young man who had a severe motor function disability. He was probably in the 1 percentile in terms of balance and coordination. Guess what? He had no problem hitting golf lines with slow discs in the 250-300 plus range. Is that kid ever going to bomb discs? Doubtful. But it goes to show just how little "altheticism" is actually need to throw basic disc golf shots.

 

[natedg1976]

Okay, y'all are not getting my point so I will try one last time.

There are some people who will NEVER... *EVER*... be able to throw a (PDGA-legal)putter 250 ft. and/or a (PDGA-legal) Leopard 300+ ft. Ever. It has nothing to do with injuries. It has nothing to do with form. It is because some people's big muscles were programmed anti-athletically when they were 3 years old or less. Once the big muscles are programmed, which happens by the time a kid is 3 years old, that's it, the brain shuts it off and it can NEVER be programmed again.

I am sure y'all have seen kids (and/or adults) that cannot throw a baseball or softball any distance or with any speed, that cannot swing a bat at any speed at all. NO amount of practice, muscle-building or yoga is going to help them. They are physically unable to, and never will be able to.

Throwing a disc for distance requires arm SPEED... not raw muscle power, not strength, But SPEED. Will Schusterick is not a muscular guy, but he has arm SPEED. Ditto that for others.

Those that do not have that arm speed... never, EVER will. And therefore, they never, EVER will be able to legally and legitimately throw a putter 250 ft. or a Leopard 300 ft.

And ganging up on me with vicious personal attacks does not make what I am saying any less true. Ten years of experience is NOT going to make some people magically be physically able to do it. That's just the bottom line, and saying that it's possible for ANYONE is giving some people a false hope that NO amount of experience or practice or work on form will make possible. They can have perfect form, but if they don't have the arm speed, it WILL NOT MATTER, they'll never get that Leopard to 300 ft. nor that putter to 250 ft.

And I will continue to call these fallacies out when I see them.

You are wrong. Period and the end. And, you're absolute utter rubbish that you spew is misleading people from trying to better themselves. Please, just stop.

I am the perfect example of why you are wrong. I have never, ever been an athletic person. I have always been very uncoordinated and clumsy. I am not at all an athlete. Add in the fact that I am a multiple sclerosis patient, a neurological disorder that attacks the central nervous system causing muscle fatigue and spasms, lack of balance and cooridnation, serve neuropathic pain, etc, etc, etc... and that adds up to exactly the type of person that yo say would never be able to get a putter past 200 feet. Yet with practice on a regular basis, consistently improving my form, I can get a putter out past 250 relatively easily and at times have hit 300. So please, as I said before, stop. You endless beating a dead horse is sickening and we are all sick to death of seeing it.

 

[Snap-it]

He just has zero understanding of the game...it's pretty obvious.