Silver Series: 2022 Beaver State Fling Jun 10-12

[markmcc]

I don't think there's much to say about it unfortunately. It was a missed putt.

If anything maybe the DGPT says something about being more stringent about the condition of equipment at their events. After the fact one of the other players on the card (don't remember who) was jamming his putter into that exact section of the basket to recreate the fall out and the disc didn't even come close. It was a total fluke…dunno what you can say other than that?

The group did eventually get a putter to fall through the same spot. One of the commentators in post-produced coverage mentioned that the basket may have been damaged previously, and repaired (re-welded) in such a way to leave the opening a bit smaller on one side and a bit larger on the other. Total fluke.

 

[DiscJunkie]

On Corey's missed putt…
It was at least debatable.
I agree with the commentators that he should have called a provisional, before he dropped in the second putter.

Then he should have gone to the TD at the end of the round and gotten a ruling.

 

[Orchestra]

Who were the FPO commentators? Christine Jennings and…?

 

[txmxer]

On Corey's missed putt…
It was at least debatable.
I agree with the commentators that he should have called a provisional, before he dropped in the second putter.

Then he should have gone to the TD at the end of the round and gotten a ruling.

Would have been worth trying, but Ian said he asked about that and the TD would not have given him the stroke.

 

[Cgkdisc]

I wonder if Corey later checked the diameter of the putter that fell through? Not that he was intentionally using a disc that possibly had shrunken, but just didn't know. Some 21 cm discs can probably shrink below that minimum disc diameter over time depending on the plastic. It sounds like other players had a hard time finding the weird angle for the disc to drop thru which makes me wonder about that diameter question.

Note that the earlier Discatcher Pro had 20.5cm max gaps in the 12-spoke tray approved in 1995. Looking at the video, this appears to be the tray on that basket. Considering the max gaps are measured in 2D space from corner to corner when prototypes are submitted for approval, it's possible there are 3D diagonals that could become bigger, especially if it was true a broken wire was rewelded. That 20.5 cm gap is pretty close to 21.0 cm of a new disc let alone one that's been used. 0.5 cm is about 3/16". Of course, if this gap on the 1995 tray had been a problem, we would have had multiple complaints of discs falling through, and I don't recall any high-profile drop-thrus being recorded.

Note that in 2016, the gaps in the Discatcher Pro 24 were reduced to 18.0 cm max since there were now 14 vs 12 spokes. The Pro 28 has 17.7cm max gaps in the 14 spokes.

 

[jeverett]

I wonder if Corey later checked the diameter of the putter that fell through? Not that he was intentionally using a disc that possibly had shrunken, but just didn't know. Some 21 cm discs can probably shrink below that minimum disc diameter over time depending on the plastic. It sounds like other players had a hard time finding the weird angle for the disc to drop thru which makes me wonder about that diameter question.

Note that the earlier Discatcher Pro had 20.5cm max gaps in the 12-spoke tray approved in 1995. Looking at the video, this appears to be the tray on that basket. Considering the max gaps are measured in 2D space from corner to corner when prototypes are submitted for approval, it's possible there are 3D diagonals that could become bigger, especially if it was true a broken wire was rewelded. That 20.5 cm gap is pretty close to 21.0 cm of a new disc let alone one that's been used. 0.5 cm is about 3/16". Of course, if this gap on the 1995 tray had been a problem, we would have had multiple complaints of discs falling through, and I don't recall any high-profile drop-thrus being recorded.

Note that in 2016, the gaps in the Discatcher Pro 24 were reduced to 18.0 cm max since there were now 14 vs 12 spokes. The Pro 28 has 17.7cm max gaps in the 14 spokes.

I saw some local FB chatter about the course/event, suggesting that this particular basket had been previously damaged and re-welded together. We have one such basket at one of our local courses.. it had a tree fall on it during a storm a few years ago, which took the cage clean off the pole. It *seemed* to weld back together again fine, but perhaps that basket at Milo didn't quite go back together properly?

 

[Rastnav]

I honestly don't see why it would matter whether or not Corey called a provisional.

If the putt counted as having "come to rest in the basket", then anything after that wouldn't be a stroke on the hole. There is no longer any lie, and thus you can't execute a throw to change it. At most it would be a practice throw, but it didn't travel more than 5 meters in the air, so it wouldn't be that either.

Arguably, a card could rule that they observed the disc to have come to rest in the basket. Any subsequent moving of the disc would then be moot. The disc doesn't need to come to rest more than a millisecond, as we see any time a player executes a tap in by placing the disc vertically on the basket, letting go and then immediately re-gripping. I'm not saying it would be technically correct, necessarily, but I could see a card deciding that this was the case.

What would be the ruling if the disc came to rest in the basket, and immediately thereafter something happened to subsequently remove it? Say some player trips on the way to the basket and they knock a disc from out of the chains where it is suspended? Presumably the disc would have been observed to have been holed out and no extra stroke would be required.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Unless there's a trap door in the tray, it's unlikely a disc can be declared at rest and roll out of the basket unless it's perhaps very windy and it's blown out of it after coming to rest. Did they fixed the gap with a tie wrap, string or wire after observing this problem? Even if the group didn't have anything, it should have been reported and temporarily fixed. Someone in the booth could have informed the TD... oh, wait...

 

[glassila]

To have any chance of winning an appeal I believe Corey needed to call for a provisional throw after his 20 foot putt fell through the bottom of the basket, then putted again from that 20 foot lie.

Unfortunately, I think he had picked up his marker before he realized his putt had fallen out. :doh:

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Unless there's a trap door in the tray, it's unlikely a disc can be declared at rest and roll out of the basket unless it's perhaps very windy and it's blown out of it after coming to rest. Did they fixed the gap with a tie wrap, string or wire after observing this problem? Even if the group didn't have anything, it should have been reported and temporarily fixed. Someone in the booth could have informed the TD... oh, wait...

Could call someone's caddy...

 

[ru4por]

It occurred on hole 15. Wow, just weird.
He starts his putting process at the 23:54 mark. Putt drops through at 24:00.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TXka-fAbVo

In case anyone has not seen it or wants to rewatch it.

 

[Steve West]

…
Unfortunately, I think he had picked up his marker before he realized his putt had fallen out. :doh:

It doesn't matter whether he had picked up his marker.

810 Interference
Last updated: Friday, December 31, 2021 - 17:58
________________________________________
[...]
B. A marker disc that has moved is replaced to its original location, as agreed on by the group.

 

[colink]

Grant Zellner from the PDGA. Based on the voice I would have sworn that it was Avery Jenkins, though.

 

[roblee]

One less throw for Cory would tie him for second. That finish would mean an extra $250 for him. Since the DGPT "approved " the course it seems fitting for them to pay Cory the extra $250 as a good will gesture.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Usually, someone at least kisses you before you get screwed.

 

[glassila]

There's no way the PDGA or the DGPT could be held accountable for the basket.
I don't know if anyone inspects the baskets prior to an event and even if they did I don't think they would have seen the problem with the naked eye.
If it the gap was noticeable I think some players would have alerted an official. In fact, players in Corey's group tried to get a putter to go through the gap and it took 15 seconds of finagling to get one through.

 

[DiscJunkie]

Still thinking about this mis-carriage of justice…
Although I think you could debate the validity of the ruling from EITHER viewpoint,
in my mind this has misplaced the DROT rule as the "Stupidest rule in Disc Golf."

I can just hear a newb say:
"So let me get this straight. You're saying that even though the guy made the putt, and it fell in the basket, but then fell THROUGH the basket, his putt counts as a MISS? Yeah, that's just stupid!"

 

[Monkeypaws]

Lots of comments about a basket - how about 2 great showings in a row from Garrett Gurthie?

I don't think I've ever seen him putt so well as he has these last 2 tournaments. That always was his weakness in the past it seemed to me

 

[Brychanus]

Lots of comments about a basket - how about 2 great showings in a row from Garrett Gurthie?

I love it whenever he's on coverage. The power is always breathtaking, but the guy has incredible rhythm and touch too, and not many people are so proficient at throwing understable molds. That heavy hyzer putt makes my throat clench up every time I see it so when his aim is on it's even more exciting.