USDGC coverage

[juju]

https://www.facebook.com/USDGC/?hc_ref=PAGES_TIMELINE&fref=nf

 

[jvphobic]

Thanks juju. I missed that.

 

[Royalhghnss]

Man this is a fun thread

Honest question for the folks that seem so virulently against live coverage...why? If you don't want to watch it, don't. But why mock or put down those that do, for whatever reason? It's such a strange argument. It's not really an either/or with regard to live and post-produced, yet it seems people want to frame it that way. There's plenty of room for both.

Because it takes away from getting post produced crews there Selfish I guess but that's my take. Look at Memorial this year. 0 post produced coverage.

Ok, bear with me here. Can we PLEASE stop throwing around the 5000 viewers number? Yes, that is what we get CONCURRENT. But, it isn't like we get 5000 people to sit down and watch the entire round. We have people come in and out all the time.

I choose round 2 of Worlds this year as a comparison because it was the MPO and Jomez had next day release. We had 19000+ views on the day that it streamed, and another 6K the next day. I assume all before Jomez had the chance to put his out. 25,000 people watched our live video in the first 24 hours.

I am partially to blame because I haven't been more vocal about clearing this up.

Only if you stop staying those 19,000 are unique views.

I refresh all the time when I'm watching, each of those refreshes counts as a view. Steam goes down? Everyone refreshes, boom 5k more views. Look at how many views your Memorial coverage has, I remember the stream having some issues so a lot more people refreshing. It has a ton more views than the super solid Worlds stream.

All that stuff is useless fluff that I always ignore. When I watch football games, I want to see football. All of the pregame crap and fluff filler isn't football, so I ignore it and don't pay attention until the game actually starts. Same with disc golf videos--all the introductory crap at the beginning and interviews after and such I skip.

This. The best program in the entire world right now is NFL Redzone. 0% fluff, 100% action. Love it.

I think it is all on the right track, so I apologize if that didn't come off correctly in my post. I can't really argue with you, as the recent collaborations have been strong. I just hope this can continue in the form as it is, I guess I just worry that egos and feelings might have to be put aside at times in order to continue the growth that is taking place.

Playing off of the working for the same bran/company thought, I would love to see the PDGA subsidize some more of the homegrown disc golf media. Brian Graham has said in the past that the PDGA could have been on ESPN3 if they wanted to spend the money. Maybe funnel some of those funds down to Smashboxx, Jomez, et al in the spirit of continuing to build on the positive media growth thus far.

I'm always down to work for anyone as long as it makes $ and time off work sense. I did commentary for Jomez at GBO for free cuz I like those guys. We also worked with Spin at DGWT LaMi. I've done tons of work with lcgm8 too.

Every since Marty Gregwah took over the PDGA media purse strings they've actually been amazing at getting more media coverage. That guy gets it, and deserves a ton of credit for what he's doing for disc golf. PDGA supported us at Worlds, and at US Masters.

Steve, the thing is... I don't WANT to have to add anything additional to the cut. The purpose would be to get something out quick and dirty. I don't want to take the extra time to add in hole previews, tee signs, scorecards, etc. I need that to show up in the broadcast so that I can just "leave it in" and not "cut it out". Because that is where a ton of extra time gets taken up is having to figure out scores and create stuff. Doing this would be a strictly "cut out the fat" show. Get it down to 30-40 min or so.

And I know that I need to be better with graphics for the broadcast. We have a big call with Steve Dodge tomorrow to talk about the future of the DGPT live broadcasts. Obviously he wants more, bigger, better. And so do we. But there is obviously a cost analysis that needs to be done.

Thanks for the input.

JVD all that except the scores could be done ahead of time. It's how we get our post produced vids out so fast (when we're trying to). Everything is done except for the footage, and scores.

Scores take 20 minutes tops.

I still don't understand what you mean by this. There's only one known producer that I could even apply this to, but the rest of us work together as much as is appropriate.

I'll admit, yes I'm taking some offense to these suggestions, because I don't feel like there's any precedent to motivate them. I'm friends with many of the people that you're talking about, and ego has never been an issue amongst us, personally or professionally. Maybe I don't understand what you're intending to say? I feel like you're being coy rather than just directly critiquing something.

What Jamie said, majority of us are totally open to collaboration.

 

[jvphobic]

Ian, Unless your IP address changes or your device changes when you refresh, YouTube does NOT count an extra view. So, you are incorrect in saying that. Go to the unlisted video I posted and try to keep refreshing, it does not increase the viewer numbers. YouTube is smarter than that. I am not saying that those 19000 views are unique individual people. Could be someone watched it on their tablet and TV. Could be they watched at home and at work. But I would be willing to bet that 90-95% of those views are unique viewers. If you got a view everytime you refreshed, we would quite literally have a hundred thousand views on every video, as would your videos.

The Memorial has a ton of views BECAUSE there was no post-edited stuff. Those are not "refreshed views" as you thought.

I understand that it is "selfish" of you to talk about recorded coverage. I don't blame you. But we were NOT the reason that no one was at the Memorial. We had no exclusivity on the event, we had LIVE exclusivity. Anyone was welcome to show up, no one did because the DGWT was the next weekend and crews didn't want to put in the $$$ to get there.

You nailed it when it comes to Media Marty. And in general the PDGA has been more welcome to all media this past year.

The "extra graphics". Yeah. I could have all that done ahead of time. I just don't want to. Quick & Dirty. That is what I want. I don't want to have to mess with putting things INTO Premiere, just cutting out.

And I think that Jamie nailed it when it comes to collaboration. We are always open to suggestions, but financially it doesn't really make sense for anyone at this point. When it doesn't financially hurt anyone, we are great with it. But that isn't usually the case. Everything costs money.

 

[lyleoross]

Rude coat on! Alright John and Ian. This is your dad speaking. You two are not allowed to have at each other in any way! Instead, focus on how we get the best of both worlds and at a profit for both versions.

There is no question that each has value, and each has a different mission and that each has it's advocates. Arguing semantics, correct ones or not, is not in either of your best interests. Let us kids fight it out while you guys go on doing a great job! Rude coat off.

 

[JTacoma03]

:thmbup: Great news! Nice to see you've patched things up with the greatest videographer in our sport. Hopefully this means lcgm8 coverage on SpinTV for future European events. :hfive:

I think you're reading into things that aren't there. We patched up a misunderstanding where he thought I was taking shots at him on here, which was never my intention. Jussi runs big events in Europe, I have no say in who he hires.

 

[jvphobic]

Lyleross... don't confuse my statements for ANY sort of issue with Ian. Cool guy and I respect his recorded medium.

I just wanted to make sure he was aware of how the YouTube views structure works. :thmbup:

 

[JTacoma03]

Lyleross... don't confuse my statements for ANY sort of issue with Ian. Cool guy and I respect his recorded medium.

I just wanted to make sure he was aware of how the YouTube views structure works. :thmbup:

Don't lie, the blood feud between the Van Deurzen and Anderson clans cannot be satisfied with mere words!

Battle Royale! and let's let everyone argue over who should film it, and how the decisions we make are wrong!

 

[DanJon]

Don't lie, the blood feud between the Van Deurzen and Anderson clans cannot be satisfied with mere words!

Battle Royale! and let's let everyone argue over who should film it, and how the decisions we make are wrong!

I won't watch it unless it's live.

 

[tbird888]

More condescension from Jamie...imagine that.

 

[Royalhghnss]

Ian, Unless your IP address changes or your device changes when you refresh, YouTube does NOT count an extra view. So, you are incorrect in saying that. Go to the unlisted video I posted and try to keep refreshing, it does not increase the viewer numbers. YouTube is smarter than that. I am not saying that those 19000 views are unique individual people. Could be someone watched it on their tablet and TV. Could be they watched at home and at work. But I would be willing to bet that 90-95% of those views are unique viewers. If you got a view everytime you refreshed, we would quite literally have a hundred thousand views on every video, as would your videos.

So I just tested it on your video. First time I opened it it was at 36 views. Refreshed, still said 36, opened it in another window, and it said 38. So it looks like it did count the refresh? I just opened it again and now it's at 39. It's definitely counting all the views/refreshes. I've tested this before on my own videos countless times. The video will be unlisted, so only I have the link. The number of views is always the number of times I've opened the vid. From the same computer/ip/everything.

The Memorial has a ton of views BECAUSE there was no post-edited stuff. Those are not "refreshed views" as you thought.

I understand that it is "selfish" of you to talk about recorded coverage. I don't blame you. But we were NOT the reason that no one was at the Memorial. We had no exclusivity on the event, we had LIVE exclusivity. Anyone was welcome to show up, no one did because the DGWT was the next weekend and crews didn't want to put in the $$$ to get there.

I mean kind of? You didn't have exclusivity, you just had exclusivity on all the money the TD/PDGA wanted to spend on media. . And at this point travelling far to film DG is a losing proposition unless we're paid in some way.

You nailed it when it comes to Media Marty. And in general the PDGA has been more welcome to all media this past year.

The "extra graphics". Yeah. I could have all that done ahead of time. I just don't want to. Quick & Dirty. That is what I want. I don't want to have to mess with putting things INTO Premiere, just cutting out.

And I think that Jamie nailed it when it comes to collaboration. We are always open to suggestions, but financially it doesn't really make sense for anyone at this point. When it doesn't financially hurt anyone, we are great with it. But that isn't usually the case. Everything costs money.

All agreement here :hfive:

Rude coat on! Alright John and Ian. This is your dad speaking. You two are not allowed to have at each other in any way! Instead, focus on how we get the best of both worlds and at a profit for both versions.

There is no question that each has value, and each has a different mission and that each has it's advocates. Arguing semantics, correct ones or not, is not in either of your best interests. Let us kids fight it out while you guys go on doing a great job! Rude coat off.

LOL, JVD and I are cool, we're just a couple nerds talkin Tube.

Lyleross... don't confuse my statements for ANY sort of issue with Ian. Cool guy and I respect his recorded medium.

I just wanted to make sure he was aware of how the YouTube views structure works. :thmbup:

This , and right back at ya. Always amazed at what you guys do.:hfive:

 

[JTacoma03]

I won't watch it unless it's live.

:clap::clap:

 

[McFlySoHigh]

But we were NOT the reason that no one was at the Memorial. We had no exclusivity on the event, we had LIVE exclusivity. Anyone was welcome to show up, no one did because the DGWT was the next weekend and crews didn't want to put in the $$$ to get there.

Sorry for the flogging, dead horse, but the record needs to be set straight. (For those who may not know, Keith Murray was the TD of the 2016 Memorial.)

 

[jvphobic]

Sorry for the flogging, dead horse, but the record needs to be set straight. (For those who may not know, Keith Murray was the TD of the 2016 Memorial.)

That is news to us. We were LIVE exclusive from what we were told. We never had any plans for post edited round coverage. And it has always been our position that we were NOT going to make any edited version. We WERE also asked to be the media coordinators for the event.

Either way, that is in the past. I appreciate you bringing it to light. We will make sure that future communication is clear as to division of duties.

Now talking about more recent disclosures. As you heard (or may not have yet) last night on our podcast, the PDGA stepped up and offered to pay for USDGC live coverage in full. Unfortunately the event has declined our services. I fear that they just think there isn't time to coordinate our efforts and theirs. And I know they don't want to divide the viewership between live and post-edited coverage. It is unfortunate, but we just wanted to put it out there so that people can give the PDGA some credit. The PDGA has been kicked around a bit lately, sometimes validly and sometimes not, and I think it should be out there what they were willing to do for the community.

I want to make it clear that we are not faulting the USDGC, they have their media plan in place and are sticking to it. We only gave them about 2 weeks notice, and we were not given much more than that.

But we just want to end the conversation about alternative funding (PDGA, Kickstarter, PPV, etc) to get us there. But thanks for all of the thoughts, we truly do appreciate the disc golf community and the die hard live broadcast watchers. We look forward to coming back in 2017 with a vengeance.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Now thats some **** right there. If "not enough time" is their excuse welp... Thats a straight up crock'

Jamie you want a pdga popsicle to chill out on?

 

[jvphobic]

Jamie had NOTHING to do with this decision. Jamie has been NOTHING but kind and helpful working with us in the past. We look forward to working with Jamie in the future, and hopefully Innova and possibly the USDGC in years to come.

 

[SD86]

Now talking about more recent disclosures. As you heard (or may not have yet) last night on our podcast, the PDGA stepped up and offered to pay for USDGC live coverage in full. Unfortunately the event has declined our services. I fear that they just think there isn't time to coordinate our efforts and theirs. And I know they don't want to divide the viewership between live and post-edited coverage. It is unfortunate, but we just wanted to put it out there so that people can give the PDGA some credit. The PDGA has been kicked around a bit lately, sometimes validly and sometimes not, and I think it should be out there what they were willing to do for the community.

I want to make it clear that we are not faulting the USDGC, they have their media plan in place and are sticking to it. We only gave them about 2 weeks notice, and we were not given much more than that.

I did catch your podcast, with USWDGC Champion Sarah Hokum (good interview!) and the talk about the live coverage. Great podcast, as usual.

Having said that, IMHO you are being way too kind, too generous, to "the event" (read: Jussi) over the refusal to allow live coverage at all. The original excuse was cost; that excuse was utterly annihilated by you as well as the PDGA. I don't accept this bit about "we have a firm media plan in place", either.

Again... almost any other event, and I'd understand. But this is the USDGC, one of the two biggest tournaments of the year, IMHO (the other being Worlds). I simply cannot see any reason to NOT have live coverage, especially as it has been offered to be paid for and by several means.

So I have to wonder if there is another reason behind the open hostility to live broadcasting of the USDGC. This refusal to allow live coverage has more than irritated a lot of people, and IMHO this could have lasting negative repercussions.

I do appreciate you (Smashboxx) and others for trying, and the PDGA for destroying Jussi's "cost" excuse.

(/soapbox)

 

[tbird888]

As if only offering a men's division wasn't bad enough, this is yet another reason to support the Pro Tour. Way to "provide fans and spectators with an experience unseen before in the sport." Way to step back five years guys. :thmbdown:

 

[TheOtherBill]

As if only offering a men's division wasn't bad enough, this is yet another reason to support the Pro Tour. Way to "provide fans and spectators with an experience unseen before in the sport." Way to step back five years guys. :thmbdown:

Jussi may be the PR arm of the operation, but the $$ decisions at DGWT are all made by guys over 60 at Innova.

No matter how 'with-it' they may seem and forward thinking in disc and course design, there is still a 30+ year difference between them and the average age of the players, and some decisions may seem to reflect an older way of thinking.

I'm grateful for all they do and have done, heck one of those old guys was a major early influence on my involvement with the sport. But we cannot expect their thinking to align with what Dodge and the DD crew do.

For me, the only tournament I follow without video is Worlds, but even then I may go media-backout for the last couple rounds until I actually see the footage.

 

[Jackal]

Having said that, IMHO you are being way too kind, too generous, to "the event" (read: Jussi) over the refusal to allow live coverage at all. The original excuse was cost; that excuse was utterly annihilated by you as well as the PDGA. I don't accept this bit about "we have a firm media plan in place", either.

Again... almost any other event, and I'd understand. But this is the USDGC, one of the two biggest tournaments of the year, IMHO (the other being Worlds). I simply cannot see any reason to NOT have live coverage, especially as it has been offered to be paid for and by several means.

So I have to wonder if there is another reason behind the open hostility to live broadcasting of the USDGC. This refusal to allow live coverage has more than irritated a lot of people, and IMHO this could have lasting negative repercussions.
(/soapbox)

This hits the nail on the head. No excuses whatsoever now. Not even Jussi's $$$ being spent and still saying no. He must not like Smashboxx or something.