Wysoki vs. McBeth

[ru4por]

IMHO they SHOULD have a Marshal on each of the top two cards, or at least one dedicated to the top two cards (which should be next to each other in order). People can complain about the fairness, but the most money and prestige are on those top cards, especially in later rounds. I'm surprised the top cards don't have dedicated marshals.

This also shows how the sport has grown. Yes, back in the day, players policing themselves and each other was fine. We also policed ourselves playing casual touch football as kids, but the NFL isn't going to self-police anytime soon. So maybe Disc Golf needs to think about this aspect of their growing pains, as well.

Comparing the NFL with disc golf is kind of absurd. Comparing disc golf with nearly any sport is overestimating the popularity and stature of our game. I don't think it is any more difficult to self police in our game now, than at anytime. Video and social media just makes it infinitely easier to discover errors and endlessly debate them.
Dedicating marshals to top cards or even more is a fine idea, but I am not sure TD's could put together the volunteers to fill those positions.

 

[dashiellx]

You're can't giveven us a quote that good, and not give the source.

 

[Pbmercil]

I'm totally with you on this. Part of the issue at Worlds with the disc marking thing was that the marshal was at another card at the time the situation came up, and by the time he got back Devan's disc was marked.

But this is a non issue if Paul just calls the warning the way he is allowed to by the rules. The marshal can get involved then if rick or devan want to appeal, and that's fine. But I don't see how this situation is an "issue"

 

[onemilemore]

But this is a non issue if Paul just calls the warning the way he is allowed to by the rules. The marshal can get involved then if rick or devan want to appeal, and that's fine. But I don't see how this situation is an "issue"

For sure. I had posted before without seeing your prior post, but you are spot on with this. He can call it, and I think you'll see him do it more. It comes down to the perception debate, of if he wants to call it and risk coming off like he's nitpicking, or if he just calls it and lives with it. He's got enough clout to call it without worrying about what outsiders think, IMO, but there will always be the court of public opinion that may differ.

 

[slowplastic]

It sounds like since there were marshals there, he figured they should do things associated with the rules. Apparently not?

 

[DiscFifty]

Probably just me..but when Paul's game is on, he just looks, throws, etc, like he's on another level. Ricky even when playing better than Paul just looks a bit more tense, uptight, etc. hmm...

 

[lyleoross]

Probably just me..but when Paul's game is on, he just looks, throws, etc, like he's on another level. Ricky even when playing better than Paul just looks a bit more tense, uptight, etc. hmm...

At the risk of having the Ricky crowd decapitate me, the two have diametrically opposed styles. Paul is a smooth, technique player, Ricky is a power, accuracy player. Paul uses technique to get distance and clean lines, Ricky plays power golf, and has learned accuracy to keep him on course in tight fairways. The one exception is putting where Ricky uses a soft touch shot to lay the disc into the basket.

Ricky's use of a primary power style means that when things go wrong, they can go really wrong. It's why we see him hit more trees close in than Paul does. To make his style work he has to feel it and if anything distracts him from that feel, it can be a problem.

Paul has trouble when he tries to push beyond his learned technique. When he is chasing after, typically Ricky, and begins to move to a power oriented game. Ricky controls his power game, Paul's leaves him often enough OB.

At least that's how it looks to me.

 

[Flick Maniac]

It may be a style of play thing but still at times I think Rick might benefit from taking a little more time before throwing.

 

[lyleoross]

It may be a style of play thing but still at times I think Rick might benefit from taking a little more time before throwing.

By my observation, that is a tough call. For me, more time means a better shot, but Ricky seems to do better when he doesn't spend more time setting up. Watch him in the rain where he rushes through everything. He seems to be even better. As I wrote above, I think Ricky needs to feel his shots; to much prep and thinking seperates him from that feel.

 

[ScottyLove]

Except that Paul didn't really do what he could/should have, which is issued a formal warning to Rick and Devan on the spot.

Disagree as there was nothing to warn about. Ricky and Devan both said the discs were marked... just very lightly. If that's true and nobody has said otherwise, there is no warning to issue.

Devan did later say he had an unmarked disc, but it wasn't the one in question.

 

[lyleoross]

Disagree as there was nothing to warn about. Ricky and Devan both said the discs were marked... just very lightly. If that's true and nobody has said otherwise, there is no warning to issue.

Devan did later say he had an unmarked disc, but it wasn't the one in question.

Interesting observation. I've not looked at the video, would you say that Paul went to the marshal because there was push back on whether the discs were marked?

 

[TheOtherBill]

The difference in playing styles may have a lot to do with how they practice.
Ricky has said he will play 4-5 drives all the way to hole-out on each hole when he is practicing. It seems Paul practices holes or shots more so than the overall course itself, once he has an idea of where the throws he already knows how to make will land off the tee.

 

[corin_brown]

It may be a style of play thing but still at times I think Rick might benefit from taking a little more time before throwing.

"Rick might benefit..."? This is funny. How much more does the reigning World Champ and 2016 POY need to benefit? Lol.

Obviously Rick plays fast. This came up in recent ITC & Smashboxx podcasts. It's obviously a rhythm thing. And it OBVIOUSLY works for him.

Why would he even think about changing anything in his game now, let alone such a basic element of his style? Of all times? Now that he's improved to the best player in the world, POY & World Champ? That's nuts.

When Rick hits the skids, then it makes sense for him to revamp his style, but now? Nah.

 

[lyleoross]

"Rick might benefit..."? This is funny. How much more does the reigning World Champ and 2016 POY need to benefit? Lol.

Obviously Rick plays fast. This came up in recent ITC & Smashboxx podcasts. It's obviously a rhythm thing. And it OBVIOUSLY works for him.

Why would he even think about changing anything in his game now, let alone such a basic element of his style? Of all times? Now that he's improved to the best player in the world, POY & World Champ? That's nuts.

When Rick hits the skids, then it makes sense for him to revamp his style, but now? Nah.

I'm not sure I'd call him the best player in the world. World Champion for sure, but best player in the world....

And yes, I know, for some winning the Worlds means your the best in the world. I wonder what the measure of best should be? For sure his record over the season makes a statement. As pointed out earlier, I might wait till the full end of the season before making a judgement.

I do agree, as I wrote upstream, Ricky has a feel for his game. He plays fast because that fits the feel thing. Slowing down would probably do more harm than good.

 

[lyleoross]

Just so everyone understands my position. Our Worlds does come near the end of the season so you can say a player hones his skill over the season and it plays out there. But it is a one off. You sort of earn your way there, but not through some head to head competition where there is the possibility of elimination. It's a sweet event, but it isn't necessarily the mark of the best player. I give more credence to Ricky's overall winning record than that. But if Ricky or Paul won eight events over a season up through Worlds, and then some young gun came along and kicked both of their bottoms by twenty strokes in the last four events, would I say they were the best in the world? Well, by wins, yes, but I'd say that kid was a better player.

 

[SD86]

Disagree as there was nothing to warn about. Ricky and Devan both said the discs were marked... just very lightly. If that's true and nobody has said otherwise, there is no warning to issue.

Devan did later say he had an unmarked disc, but it wasn't the one in question.

Only problem was... they had an issue trying to identify which of a pair of identical discs belonged to who. There WAS an issue there.

After that, the discs got marked, so a warning would've been just that (a warning) and no further damage done.

But then Ricky started whining about Paul enforcing the rules... and Ricky whined when Paul (and the rest of the card) enforced the rules on Ricky at the BHMO. Seems to be a pattern developing, there...

 

[gsw_03]

Now that he's improved to the best player in the world, POY & World Champ? That's nuts.

I would say #1 ranked player, POY & World Champ. "Best" is far too subjective and nearly impossible to define over such a short period of time. Was he playing the best golf through Worlds? Yes. Has he continued to dominate since? Definitely not.

 

[Pbmercil]

But then Ricky started whining about Paul enforcing the rules... and Ricky whined when Paul (and the rest of the card) enforced the rules on Ricky at the BHMO. Seems to be a pattern developing, there...

There is a pattern. Rick is the type of guy to try and work every angle he can. I don't say that as any kind of character judgement, it's not a remotely uncommon attitude in disc golf, particularly among older pros.

 

[mizunodave]

In the Smashboxx interview referenced earlier Paul specifically made the point that he doesn't like the fact that the players are responsible for calling warnings and violations. He believes that the players should be allowed to focus on playing golf and he'd like to see the sport have marshals and such to handle that stuff instead.

Due to limits on staff this may not be possible just yet and he probably realizes that but it's the way he'd like to see the sport go.

Actually, I notice a lot of comments from Paul that show he's looking towards the future of the game and how he'd like to see it change and grow. He had a lot of positive things to say about how the world tour is doing things and suggested the NT could do with a little evolution of its own.

As one of the most influential people in the sport I like seeing him willing to speak his mind and try to nudge the sport towards fulfilling its full potential.

 

[tbird888]

Of course he likes the way the World Tour is going. His sponsor's deeply invested in it.