PDGA NT: 2019 Santa Cruz Masters Cup presented by Innova 17-May to 19-May-2019

[brutalbrutus]

The FPO scores is kind of strange. . one player shot +1 in perfect weather in R1 .. . R2 in rain 3players shot E
PP shot six better in the rain.

But in MPO the scores was MUCH worse in R2. . i mean Ricky shot 14 worse in R2

I think the women played most/all of their round before it started raining.

 

[Jolt]

The story on Ultiworld made me feel that it was rain during the FPO round

 

[Streets]

QA-OBS-5: Can I get relief from irritating plants such as poison ivy, poison oak, or nettles?

No, unless the Director has declared casual relief for them. Those plants affect players differently, and very rarely pose a serious health risk. If your disc goes into some plants and you don't want to play from there, you can take optional relief, or abandon the throw, at the cost of a penalty throw.

I probably should read the rule book at some point...

 

[robdeforge]

I probably should read the rule book at some point...

I only know this one because I was looking at the Q&A literally a few days ago for a question in the rules section about relief. up until then I 100% thought the same as you

 

[Casey 1988]

Yeah, I always found this hilarious that you have to call out FORE (ON HOLE X) to specify? Like, if you can hit people on several different holes maybe not so great design?

Yeah I know its a classic and modern disc tech has noobs hitting people with blizz Katanas that were in no danger before, but.... yeah, still. I know a few courses in Finland too that have classic status, but in an alternate reality where someone presented the plan to the city they would think you were crazy and zero chance of installing the course in such a hazardous way.

Having been hit with both a driver Avenger in a tournament, and a Putter, max weight Wizard by a friend while he was driving, Both on the back/side of head. I will say the putter hurts more then the driver due to the blunt nose hitting you with more area. The Driver is more dangerous because they can do damage to the body internally. Also speed of throws has gotten faster over time due to how people are making hard courses that are just long and need the speed to get the distance.

 

[John Rock]

There is OB all over the course in the form of any tree that is more than 2 meters in height.

Did you hear Jeremy Koling's new term for a good throw that results in a terrible result? At this course, this would be referred to as being Dela'ed. He now calls it being "dumbfortunate".

OB is not the same as 2meters above the playing surface.

 

[brutalbrutus]

b12...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9gt7BjqXLw

 

[swhite]

OB is not the same as 2meters above the playing surface.

Fine.

But, I think Jolt is referring to the holes that Udisc has marked OB/pentalty for P.Pierce during round 1. You can confirm if I am wrong about this, but it appears that Paige:

1. throws OB into the road on hole 10 (hole #8 on Udisc). 33:44 in round 1 part 1
2. throws into a tree on hole 12 (#9 on Udisc). 39:43 in round 1 part 1
3. throws into another tree on hole 16 (#13 on udisc). 11:56 in round 1 part 2
4. throws into OB ditch on hole 24 (#6 on Udisc). 37:06 in round 1 part 2



That's 4 penalty strokes, because the discs ended up in places where they are not permitted to be. Call it what you like.

 

[Jolt]

Nice R3 by Oakley, hot round, no OBs and i think the only Bogey free round. . .18 places up the board

 

[Casey 1988]

OB is not the same as 2meters above the playing surface.

Yes that is true and what is also true is the way they are scored is the same on a course.

Do any other states use the 2 meter penalty other then California as a strict rule of having the whole state use the 2 meter rule? I think it is just California and no other place in the world uses the 2 meter rule unless the tournament has that in affect and is often made for just a specific tree or trees, kind of how some tournaments in parts of Texas do not allow overhead throws like a Tomahawk or Thumber as it would make the course too easy as they have smaller height on trees, bushes and other plants due to the amount of rain in the area.

 

[Jolt]

Paige P really is the queen of OB. .the other players in the top had 2 OBs. . PP had 6

FPO is veys much a CAT and Paige show at the moment. . i think this is five i a row with them 1 and 2

Bur rough weekend for the two top MPO players. .but a fun new winner . . . MPO feels quite "open" this year

 

[Flick Maniac]

Having been hit with both a driver Avenger in a tournament, and a Putter, max weight Wizard by a friend while he was driving, Both on the back/side of head. I will say the putter hurts more then the driver due to the blunt nose hitting you with more area. The Driver is more dangerous because they can do damage to the body internally. Also speed of throws has gotten faster over time due to how people are making hard courses that are just long and need the speed to get the distance.

I think the sharp edge of the drivers make the difference, especially if they hit someone in the head where theres not much to soften the blow. Otherwise, I dont see any difference really regarding shape. Its a 175g piece of plastic at velocity x.

Anyway, while were on the subject, I still posit that it is impossible to get directly killed by a disc. Sure, a weak old person gets a driver in the nose from top of the world, the trauma might lead to complications in the worst case, but otherwise healthy person, nope, dont see it happening.

The tomahawk/thumber rule is crazy. How about grenades or otherwise crazy steep spike hyzers?

 

[Jolt]

That Jomez R2 B12 was fun. . i have never seen the three higest rated players play that bad

 

[JC17393]

Yes that is true and what is also true is the way they are scored is the same on a course.

Do any other states use the 2 meter penalty other then California as a strict rule of having the whole state use the 2 meter rule? I think it is just California and no other place in the world uses the 2 meter rule unless the tournament has that in affect and is often made for just a specific tree or trees, kind of how some tournaments in parts of Texas do not allow overhead throws like a Tomahawk or Thumber as it would make the course too easy as they have smaller height on trees, bushes and other plants due to the amount of rain in the area.

It's not a matter of an entire state using the 2-meter rule. There is no state governing body making these decisions. It's ALL individual tournaments. It just so happens that the prevailing preference at many California events is that the 2-meter penalty is always in play. There are plenty of other places that use the rule.

As for tournaments that disallow overhands, I'm pretty sure that was one tournament on one paricular course. It's not a "thing" at all, in Texas or otherwise.

The unfortunate thing about udisc is they do not differentiate what the penalties are for each player. They just have that default "OB/penalty" category. I'd prefer to see them either do away with the OB part of the category and just call it "penalties" or create separate designations for all penalties so there's a category for each: OB, missed mando, 2 meter, misplay, stance violation, etc.

 

[John Rock]

Yes that is true and what is also true is the way they are scored is the same on a course.

Do any other states use the 2 meter penalty other then California as a strict rule of having the whole state use the 2 meter rule? I think it is just California and no other place in the world uses the 2 meter rule unless the tournament has that in affect and is often made for just a specific tree or trees, kind of how some tournaments in parts of Texas do not allow overhead throws like a Tomahawk or Thumber as it would make the course too easy as they have smaller height on trees, bushes and other plants due to the amount of rain in the area.

Just pointing out that they are 2 different penalties. Sure the end result is an extra stroke, but 2m is not OB. Once determined to be in violation, very different actions are next.

I understand the generalization, many of us do it often. Like saying stroke instead of throw, we all know what is meant.

 

[Flick Maniac]

How different actions? Both cases you take the penalty, mark your lie and move on. Well I guess OB throws may have a designated drop zone (not 100% sure if that option exists for 2-meter penalties).

Here's the kicker though: in both cases you can take free relief, i.e. backwards on the line of play as much as you want. Say your disc is in the middle of a tree and the lie would be scrunched up against the trunk. Just take it as far back as you want to aid your next shot. Same with OB.

803.02E

No penalty throw is added if optional relief is being taken following a penalty taken for a disc out-of-bounds or above two meters.

 

[teemkey]

How different actions? Both cases you take the penalty, mark your lie and move on. Well I guess OB throws may have a designated drop zone (not 100% sure if that option exists for 2-meter penalties).

Here's the kicker though: in both cases you can take free relief, i.e. backwards on the line of play as much as you want. Say your disc is in the middle of a tree and the lie would be scrunched up against the trunk. Just take it as far back as you want to aid your next shot. Same with OB.

803.02E

An interesting case would be suspended in a tree above a hazard area.

 

[JC17393]

How different actions? Both cases you take the penalty, mark your lie and move on. Well I guess OB throws may have a designated drop zone (not 100% sure if that option exists for 2-meter penalties).

Here's the kicker though: in both cases you can take free relief, i.e. backwards on the line of play as much as you want. Say your disc is in the middle of a tree and the lie would be scrunched up against the trunk. Just take it as far back as you want to aid your next shot. Same with OB.

803.02E

The only similarity between OB and 2-meters is the penalty. The rest of the procedure for each is entirely different. If OB, you play from the last point in-bounds or the previous lie or a drop zone. If over 2-meters, you play from the point on the playing surface directly below the disc.

Yes, if you take the penalty, you are allowed free line of play relief. But you still have to establish the lie from which to take relief first, which is where being clear that they are different rules with different procedures is important.

 

[JC17393]

An interesting case would be suspended in a tree above a hazard area.

How so?

801.02
H. A throw or an action that is subject to penalty under more than one rule is played under the rule that results in the most penalty throws; or, among rules that call for an equal number of penalty throws, the rule that was first violated.

Only one penalty applies, so nothing all that interesting there. And if the two meter rule is in play and the disc is over two meters, it's the rule that was violated first thus the free relief is available to the player in that situation.

I guess where it truly would get interesting is if the disc is suspended at 1.9 meters above the hazard area. In such a case, no relief would be allowed since the two meter penalty wouldn't be in play...the player would only be taking a hazard penalty and would have to play from the resulting lie whether they like it or not.

 

[teemkey]

How so?

801.02
H. A throw or an action that is subject to penalty under more than one rule is played under the rule that results in the most penalty throws; or, among rules that call for an equal number of penalty throws, the rule that was first violated.

Only one penalty applies, so nothing all that interesting there. And if the two meter rule is in play and the disc is over two meters, it's the rule that was violated first thus the free relief is available to the player in that situation.

I guess where it truly would get interesting is if the disc is suspended at 1.9 meters above the hazard area. In such a case, no relief would be allowed since the two meter penalty wouldn't be in play...the player would only be taking a hazard penalty and would have to play from the resulting lie whether they like it or not.

I was thinking about moving the lie back along the line of play (as cited by the previous poster).