2017 Masters Cup presented by Innova Disc Golf

[Major Tomahawk]

"Entitled crybaby"? Polite discussion is all I heard and saw from you, Nate (and Paul). If only everyone acted like such an entitled crybaby! I watched the recent "Champs vs Chumps" coverage and said to myself over and over, "What a nice guy Sexton is" (not to mention witty and clever).

Ya, I said those things. I was there. I wasn't trolling anyone. I was ignorant of the special "dirt" rule. The disc was a foot and a half on the road. The edge of the road was easy to distinguish. I was never informed of the "dirt" rule. To me it's no different from grass growing over a sidewalk that's OB. Maybe I shouldn't have used the word "crying". I could have said vehemently protesting or maybe lobbying. I didn't. But I was right there and had never seen that call made in my life. I'm curious as to when that specific "dirt" rule was discussed because it never came up in my encounters with any of the officials at the tourney. So anyway, I apologize to you, Nate Sexton, for putting you on blast. Have fun getting acquainted with your new bundle of joy. KL

 

[Cgkdisc]

In Tour economics, not getting that one throw penalty was worth $100 in diapers.

 

[spinachd]

Paint or string I guess.

In perusing the R3 scores it seems like there was a significant positive correlation between experience on ball golf course layouts and performance.

 

[brutalbrutus]

Hard to imagine that being the worst call you've ever seen, especially given that it was the only call within the rules given to every player before the round (including yourself). There is no digging allowed at Dela to determine a boundary line. It's either surrounded by asphalt entirely or it's not. It's unfortunate that we have so many compromised ob boundaries along the road, but we are not allowed to paint or put rope lines along the road due to city restrictions and complaints from residents further down the road. As a reasonable solution, we have used the "no digging" rule for years, despite our reservations. The fact that every player plays the same course with the same rules makes it a non-issue, as long as everyone follows the rules as Nate did. Due to the heavy spill over in that area specifically, we addressed it before the next round to make it less ambiguous in general.

Given my proximity to most of the top players in the sport over the last several years as TD of the Masters Cup, I can safely say that Nate is one of the last people that I would ever accuse of 'crying like a baby'. In fact, his exact words to me were "I know this would be out almost anywhere else, but with the rules we were given I believe it's safe." He happened to be 100% correct.

Paint or string I guess.

In perusing the R3 scores it seems like there was a significant positive correlation between experience on ball golf course layouts and performance.

....

 

[takman]

Random stuff from this weekend:

The course set-up at DeLaveaga has been the same for the last 5 years. It's 24 holes with hole #'s 20-24 omitted. There have been 4 times when -11 has been achieved. Paul's -15 destroyed that record.

I talked to Paul before his first round. Another guy just blurts out, "Are you going to win this tourney" and Paul, without hesitation, said "Yes!".

The poison oak was bad in places where you shouldn't throw you shots. This is the first year that I can remember where the TD's allowed relief from the PO. After you play DeLa, it's a tradition to go swimming in the Pacific. That will clean off your PO oils.

Nate Sexton's death putt on hole 6 squirted OB and landed on the road in the first or second round. It was obviously on the road, but he cried and complained like a baby until the TD came over and ruled that since you couldn't see the road under his disc (it was on dirt that slides up on the road when people slide OB) the TD ruled his disc safe. That was the worst call I've ever seen at a tourney. I've been where NS was and there is no way that I'm going to ask for a call. It was clearly on the road. Later, I find out that other players landing in the same spot took OB's like men/pros. I lost respect of NS right there. Paul couldn't believe he got the the call and I saw his face. Paul was rolling his eyes. The next morning, the TD had a broom and swept all of the dirt off of the road.

Yesterday, during the 3rd round, Big Jerm threw a thumber on a short hole and landed on the green that was over a hill for an OB. When Jerm got to his disc and was told where his thumber was last in bounds, he also did the entitlement argument that his disc was "no way" that far left. His cardmates gave him the call and he banged a 60-footer for par. After the hole I walked up to a friend that was up on the green at the time of the throw and that the throw had gone directly over his head...30 feet to the left of the mark that Big Jerm lobbied and cried about until he got it. Very sad professionalism was what I witnessed by Big/Sexy.
\
On a side note, I won my division by one shot by shooting a last round -4 on DeLa with no scores larger than a 3. I'm glad I didn't have to play the ball golf set-up. I definitely prefer the old school course.

Your "random" stuff seemed to have a distinct theme.

 

[slowplastic]

I just finished watching all the footage so I could finally check in on this thread...I guess I shouldn't have been worried about spoilers after a McBeast -15 initially.

The Ian/Jamie combo was awesome, it was great last time they were paired up and I think it's one of the best combos for entertaining but professional. Avery really improved, and it was great with the Ian/Avery setup as well. I could really notice he wasn't re-mentioning things in different ways. More importantly, he had a lot of local knowledge and experience and it added to the videos. I really like the experienced pro side of his commentary, rather than when he has to lead a commentary duo overall. He did 100x better than Konopiste.

Also, Nate is a reasonable person. How he dealt with that is how I would have expected it from all of his commentating, basically "I know I'm out but...rules say I'm in".

 

[Major Tomahawk]

Hard to imagine that being the worst call you've ever seen, especially given that it was the only call within the rules given to every player before the round (including yourself). .

I would also like to apologize to you, Braden Coolidge. You made the correct call in that situation. I didn't get to the tourney early enough to get a caddy book. I'm assuming that's where the special 'dirt' rule was listed. That rule was never physically discussed with me. I don't remember Russ saying anything about it during the check-in before rounds. Plus, I've never seen that call made at DeLa. I thought ignorance was supposed to be bliss.

You and your crew did a fantastic job this past weekend and I hope anything I've said hasn't tarnished that in any way. Big props!! KL

 

[Major Tomahawk]

Your "random" stuff seemed to have a distinct theme.

Ya, disc golf.

 

[lyleoross]

Ya, disc golf.

I'm so glad we're not going back through the stupid things I've done online or in person. Whew.

Major is one of my favorite posters. Not just for the ability to admit a mistake, but for generally rational behavior.

 

[Consult20]

Ya, I said those things. I was there. I wasn't trolling anyone. I was ignorant of the special "dirt" rule. The disc was a foot and a half on the road. The edge of the road was easy to distinguish. I was never informed of the "dirt" rule. To me it's no different from grass growing over a sidewalk that's OB. Maybe I shouldn't have used the word "crying". I could have said vehemently protesting or maybe lobbying. I didn't. But I was right there and had never seen that call made in my life. I'm curious as to when that specific "dirt" rule was discussed because it never came up in my encounters with any of the officials at the tourney. So anyway, I apologize to you, Nate Sexton, for putting you on blast. Have fun getting acquainted with your new bundle of joy. KL

It was mentioned in the players meeting as Nate alluded to in his discussion with his card at the time. It pays to attend and pay attention to players meetings, $100 today (as Chuck mentioned), but maybe $10,000+ someday.

 

[Cgkdisc]

It was mentioned in the players meeting as Nate alluded to in his discussion with his card at the time. It pays to attend and pay attention to players meetings, $100 today (as Chuck mentioned), but maybe $10,000+ someday.

Could also mean $100 in diapers in KL's division, too. See you at Worlds, KL.

 

[biscoe]

event has an exemption to use the local "no digging" rule i suppose.

 

[Major Tomahawk]

Could also mean $100 in diapers in KL's division, too. See you at Worlds, KL.

It' 'depends'!! Or not if I see you first!! Just kidding, not trolling!! Looking forward to it.

 

[Major Tomahawk]

It was mentioned in the players meeting as Nate alluded to in his discussion with his card at the time. It pays to attend and pay attention to players meetings, $100 today (as Chuck mentioned), but maybe $10,000+ someday.

Ya, just saw the TD's email last night while catching up. Work, you know?:doh:

 

[Batmanx2008]

First, great coverage at DeLa. All parties did a wonderful job. But, something that was said earlier in the thread kinda stuck with me and made me think about a few things. I wrote off all the comments earlier about not having McBeth's 15 down covered, I chuckled and said the same thing that everyone else did, "You don't know he is going to shoot that!" But then I watched the coverage and something hit me... they have 3 cameras on 1 card. "Throw", "Catch" & "Reaction". This is the same setup that Jomez has used all year as well.

I will bring this up on the podcast tonight as well, but are we at the point in our sport where we feel justified sacrificing quantity for quality? The 3rd person could have given some decent coverage to another card. From what I could tell, the 3rd camera was used for replays & slowmo in between holes where the scorecard was shown. How much quality would have been sacrificed on the primary coverage card had that 3rd camera been assigned to cover an additional group? Would we rather see 1 card with really good coverage and 1 card with decent coverage OR 1 card with fantastic coverage that we got?

I honestly don't know that there is a correct answer to this. My personal opinion would be to see more coverage of groups. I can understand the 3 camera format when there are already multiple teams covering an event like we have seen at some of the other events.

TL;DR: Quantity vs Quality? Thoughts?

Johnny V we don't often have different views but this one we do

I am personally glad that they didn't pull the third camera man and send him to record McBeth. I think it would have taken away the polished version that CCDG pumped out. I enjoyed the slow mo's between holes because it was a nice transition between holes without having to plug and ad every time. I especially enjoyed the missed putt slow mo. We hardly ever get that in coverage and it is interesting to see the effects of chain outs and such (to me at least).

Also yeah it was a historic round by McBeth and it would have been nice to see it on camera, but that's maybe an argument for two crews to cover events more often. We are getting to the point that there are just so many good players that the disc golf community wants to see that a 4 person card cant satisfy. But 8 would be a step in the right direction (top card and chase card / 4 each).

lastly what if CCDG had pulled the third camera off the leader card and then the leader card hit some amazing putts or an ace? It was awesome that the third cam got the reaction (Ricky himself) of Ricky's spit out Ace run in the first round. Imagine if he had hit it. We would be complaining that we didn't have some slow mo's of the some amazing putts at the end.

Like you said there is no right or wrong answer, just my opinion. Look forward to the podcast tonight. Hope I win the patreon giveaway

 

[frasnow]

I would also like to apologize to you, Braden Coolidge. You made the correct call in that situation. I didn't get to the tourney early enough to get a caddy book. I'm assuming that's where the special 'dirt' rule was listed. That rule was never physically discussed with me. I don't remember Russ saying anything about it during the check-in before rounds. Plus, I've never seen that call made at DeLa. I thought ignorance was supposed to be bliss.

You and your crew did a fantastic job this past weekend and I hope anything I've said hasn't tarnished that in any way. Big props!! KL

Ya, I said those things. I was there. I wasn't trolling anyone. I was ignorant of the special "dirt" rule. The disc was a foot and a half on the road. The edge of the road was easy to distinguish. I was never informed of the "dirt" rule. To me it's no different from grass growing over a sidewalk that's OB. Maybe I shouldn't have used the word "crying". I could have said vehemently protesting or maybe lobbying. I didn't. But I was right there and had never seen that call made in my life. I'm curious as to when that specific "dirt" rule was discussed because it never came up in my encounters with any of the officials at the tourney. So anyway, I apologize to you, Nate Sexton, for putting you on blast. Have fun getting acquainted with your new bundle of joy. KL

Very nice Kenny! Great to have a Senior Grandmaster showing people how to own up to mistakes. Congratulations on the win and good luck at worlds! :hfive:

 

[jvphobic]

Johnny V we don't often have different views but this one we do

Glad to know you are mostly right then.

And I am not saying they should have pulled the 3rd camera man in the middle of the round, that would have created an inconsistency in coverage. I am asking if they should have even HAD the 3rd cameraman in the first place on that card. And this isn't an argument about covering McBeth specifically, it was a thought on if there is limited resources (3 people/1 team), is it better to have 2 on a card & 1 on another; VS 3 cameras on 1 card.

Does the slow motion/reaction shot improve the coverage enough to qualify the lack of coverage of another card? I don't know the correct answer for the overall community. But I always like to err on the side of more coverage.

 

[Batmanx2008]

Glad to know you are mostly right then.

And I am not saying they should have pulled the 3rd camera man in the middle of the round, that would have created an inconsistency in coverage. I am asking if they should have even HAD the 3rd cameraman in the first place on that card. And this isn't an argument about covering McBeth specifically, it was a thought on if there is limited resources (3 people/1 team), is it better to have 2 on a card & 1 on another; VS 3 cameras on 1 card.

Does the slow motion/reaction shot improve the coverage enough to qualify the lack of coverage of another card? I don't know the correct answer for the overall community. But I always like to err on the side of more coverage.

Ahh I see, I misunderstood your original post, I thought you wanted to pull the 3rd camera mid round to cover McBeth's hot round.

I know it wasn't about McBeth, this issue would have been brought up no matter who shot a hot round like that not on the lead card.

I prefer better quality but that's me, only time I like to sacrifice quality is for the Smashcutts

 

[jvphobic]

Well you may be in for a treat. I think that the SmashCutts are coming back to the ProTour. I think that Dodge and I came to an agreement on how we can not sacrifice the speed and still appease the sponsors.

More to come.

 

[JTacoma03]

I mean, SpinTV didnt pick the card, they just picked which card to film, right? Maybe Jamie can help me out on that one. Anthon is a piece of garbage for what he did (blast me for that all you want, I'll stand by it and say it to his face) but that card had the winner of the Am side, plus the reigning wold champ and the greatest player to ever come out of Japan on it...I think it would have been a shame to NOT feature that card, even with Anthon on it. Who knows when Thomaselli will get coverage like that again and Manabu doesnt play in the U.S. that often. Plus you have to defer to the reigning world champ...yeah McBeth smashed the course on round one, but what if he hadn't? His card wasnt exactly stacked for the first round, right?

I agree with the decision that if you had to feature a card for round one, it was that one.

Here's my thoughts, sorry in advance for the long post-

In the interest of full transparency, I spoke with Braden a couple weeks before the event and we discussed the feature card. I knew that the Am winner and previous years' Champ would be on the card, and we talked about a handful of other names to round it out.

Ultimately the decision was left up to him as the TD (as it always is with any event, I want to be 100% clear about that). However, in this particular instance I was invited to share my thoughts. It's rare that I get to do so, in fact only the 2nd time ever, and I do NOT want the narrative going around that "SpinTV (or Innova) picks cards" because...well the tinfoil hat crowd will run with it, and it's just not true at all. There were 0 Innova players on the feature card and they had no problem with it. They're confident in their team members' ability to play their way to the TV spots.

Anthon was discussed because, whether people like him or hate him, he's a big deal in disc golf and a big story. His career came to a hard pause right before the "YouTube generation" of fans and media producers really rose to prominence, and those people don't understand, but he's an important part of the scene. I look at it objectively as "how enticing is the story" and try to keep my personal feelings out of it. If anyone is curious as to my personal feelings, I'll just say that I've heard so many conflicting recounts of the event that I'm satisfied to say I don't know the real story - and I don't really need to. It's not my job or my business. If Josh wants to shoot a tell-all interview or documentary, that's one thing...but I'm not a journalist, I'm a professional producer and part-time sportscaster.

Manabu hadn't attended a Masters Cup in 9 years, and he rarely gets to show off how skilled he is because Japan's scene isn't on the level of some other places...so I thought it'd be a good bet.

I do 100% wish I could have gotten a course record round filmed...I'll even be so bold as to say I want(ed) it more than any fan did or does. I do hope that people don't overlook what a great story-filled card we had though. I even teased Paul before his round on Sunday - I asked if he was mad that he wasn't featured in the first round, lol.

I don't think Anton should have been blackballed. I'm thinking particularly of the pre-tourney interview video. I think it could have used more context.

Given that disc golf news journalism exists and continues to grows, there might be a point in the not distant future where you could interview one of these journalists about the relevant news as part of your coverage. With that approach, you leave the news to the journalists (and I don't mean that as a shot at you/your production style) while providing a service to your viewers.

Great idea. Guys like Steve Hill and Zach Parcell are pioneering that journalism side (as well as "lesser known" outlets like Country Disc Golf, Average Disc Golf, etc.). I'm totally happy to let them flex their journalism muscles (and degrees in some cases!) and I do forsee a future where we start incorporating that into our lineup.

Well apparently we need the disc golf version of Skip Bayless and Steven A. Smith screaming at each other over unimportant stuff like whether it was bad taste to film Anthon so that the production guys can just focus on recording and giving us great tourney action without soiling their profession.

I can be a pompous ass like Skip, who wants to be my Screamin' A.?

OMG I love this post (and also can't stand either of those two...). Now all you need is the egomaniac role filled so well by Cowherd and we're off to the races!