2017 Masters Cup presented by Innova Disc Golf

[JTacoma03]

First, great coverage at DeLa. All parties did a wonderful job. But, something that was said earlier in the thread kinda stuck with me and made me think about a few things. I wrote off all the comments earlier about not having McBeth's 15 down covered, I chuckled and said the same thing that everyone else did, "You don't know he is going to shoot that!" But then I watched the coverage and something hit me... they have 3 cameras on 1 card. "Throw", "Catch" & "Reaction". This is the same setup that Jomez has used all year as well.

I will bring this up on the podcast tonight as well, but are we at the point in our sport where we feel justified sacrificing quantity for quality? The 3rd person could have given some decent coverage to another card. From what I could tell, the 3rd camera was used for replays & slowmo in between holes where the scorecard was shown. How much quality would have been sacrificed on the primary coverage card had that 3rd camera been assigned to cover an additional group? Would we rather see 1 card with really good coverage and 1 card with decent coverage OR 1 card with fantastic coverage that we got?

I honestly don't know that there is a correct answer to this. My personal opinion would be to see more coverage of groups. I can understand the 3 camera format when there are already multiple teams covering an event like we have seen at some of the other events.

The coverage that we got was top notch by all aspects. And I look forward to watching the FPO at some point (no hurry!) as well.

TL;DR: Quantity vs Quality? Thoughts?

Good discussion to have!

I'm a quality over quantity guy through and through. I see more value in creating better content as opposed to more content. The way I see it, we're a guppy in the ocean of sports media. The only long-term viable solution is to prioritize quality first, because I think about it from a business perspective. If we just make more videos at the same level year after year, we become food for the whale. We've at that point shown some very shrewd and skilled people in the industry HOW to film disc golf, but we haven't made ourselves irreplaceable. So if a larger company, entity, etc. wanted to get involved with us - it would be cheaper for them to replace us with highly skilled crew and steal our blueprint, than it would be to train us in a new workflow.

My position is to create an elite team of disc golf media that is easier and more pragmatic to co-op with than replace. At that point, if we get partners that have $ and a vested interest, we can talk about expanding wider. I think the results and the growth factor over the last 3 seasons speaks to my point. Both anecdotal evidence and YouTube analytics tell us that the way we're doing things now is more engaging, and more appealing to a wide audience. It allows casual fans and hardcore nerds (I say that lovingly) alike to enjoy the same event.

 

[JTacoma03]

The worst thing I saw out there was some spectator blocking Big Jerm's roller on hole #16! Anybody know who that was? Get out of the way man!

NorCal legend Doug Werner aka Skeletor!


PS - welcome to the forums. It's like quicksand in here, so move slowly and don't stay in one thread too long, because eventually someone who disagrees with you will threaten you

 

[DiscFifty]

I think there should *always* be a camera on McBeast. Whether he's leading the tournament or several strokes back, fans will tune in to watch. He's the closest thing disc golf has to Tiger, Lebron, etc., and his rounds should be treated similarly.

Great to hear from Sexton! Wish he'd log in more frequently and give us his .02 :clap:

I agree, and his sponsor should ante up for it.

 

[BrotherDave]

I think the results and the growth factor over the last 3 seasons speaks to my point. Both anecdotal evidence and YouTube analytics tell us that the way we're doing things now is more engaging, and more appealing to a wide audience. It allows casual fans and hardcore nerds (I say that lovingly) alike to enjoy the same event.

Yeah, I agree wholeheartedly with this. We've reached a point in tournament coverage where the quality is high enough to engage even non-DG people in my experience. I personally have found myself much more interested in watching these tourneys and I've noticed that whenever I have these playing on the TV my friends that don't even like sports get sucked in by stuff like the shot-tracker graphic and start watching it with me. :thmbup:

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I have a minor, really borderline insignificant criticism of the JT and Avery commentary though. Y'all's voices are just similar enough to sound a bit monotonous, just a scant few pitches of difference and I'm guessing you're both Californians as well (so similar accents)? I think something to build upon down the road is using commentators that are more distinctive. Food for thought.

 

[takman]

Ya, disc golf.

Na, cutting up some top pros on a public forum, classy. Oh, and a small random plug for yourself.

 

[Flick Maniac]

Disc golf is way more difficult to film accurately than the layman would think. You may have all the $ of a big media machine but if your camera operator does not know the likely flight paths of the discs, tracking them on that expensive equipment will be very difficult, making the end result poorer than someone with a more standard camera but who knows really how to film DG. I have utmost respect for people on the catch cam especially. I am sure you have all seen this but it is worth repeating:



The first time European Open was filmed live on Finnish TV by the big local PBS type media house, it was cool to have camera towers and all, but in the end I felt the end product was lacking in the disc tracking department. It is a learning curve to properly film it. I think they have gotten better at it (with the European Championships last year being the 3rd or 4th time on site IIRC), but are still a ways away from Jomez et al.

 

[BrotherDave]

Disc golf is way more difficult to film accurately than the layman would think. You may have all the $ of a big media machine but if your camera operator does not know the likely flight paths of the discs, tracking them on that expensive equipment will be very difficult, making the end result poorer than someone with a more standard camera but who knows really how to film DG. I have utmost respect for people on the catch cam especially. I am sure you have all seen this but it is worth repeating:



The first time European Open was filmed live on Finnish TV by the big local PBS type media house, it was cool to have camera towers and all, but in the end I felt the end product was lacking in the disc tracking department. It is a learning curve to properly film it. I think they have gotten better at it (with the European Championships last year being the 3rd or 4th time on site IIRC), but are still a ways away from Jomez et al.

I'm sure those guys love it when someone like Sexton throws a dull gray disc or some other dull color, lol. How much communication goes on between the camera guys? Does anybody at the tee radio ahead to the catch cam guy what the player teeing off is about to throw i.e. forehand or thumber? Like tipping pitches so the catch cam guy has a better idea of how the disc is going to behave?

 

[slowplastic]

How much communication goes on between the camera guys? Does anybody at the tee radio ahead to the catch cam guy what the player teeing off is about to throw i.e. forehand or thumber? Like tipping pitches so the catch cam guy has a better idea of how the disc is going to behave?

I've always wondered this...on some holes there are normal air shots, overhands, and rollers off the tee. If you expect a backhand and get a thumber...that's not easy.

 

[Consult20]

Na, cutting up some top pros on a public forum, classy. Oh, and a small random plug for yourself.

Well in his defense, the Jerm thing was interesting to hear about. I mean if spotters are being ignored, why even have them? Just to help find discs? If the disc clearly flew right over his head OB and he let Jerm know it, then to me, there is no defense in marking the lie anywhere else but in the area where the spotter was standing, no matter which pro it was.

 

[lyleoross]

Last thing heard by the Catch Cam... "LOOK OUT!"

 

[JTacoma03]

Yeah, I agree wholeheartedly with this. We've reached a point in tournament coverage where the quality is high enough to engage even non-DG people in my experience. I personally have found myself much more interested in watching these tourneys and I've noticed that whenever I have these playing on the TV my friends that don't even like sports get sucked in by stuff like the shot-tracker graphic and start watching it with me. :thmbup:

:thmbup: My wife is my go-to for these things. She knows the players, or knows who they are, by now...but she's not terribly interested in the sport itself. So if she sticks around to watch a few holes, or makes a comment about the play, etc. I know there's something in there that has legs.

I have a minor, really borderline insignificant criticism of the JT and Avery commentary though. Y'all's voices are just similar enough to sound a bit monotonous, just a scant few pitches of difference and I'm guessing you're both Californians as well (so similar accents)? I think something to build upon down the road is using commentators that are more distinctive. Food for thought.

Thanks for the feedback on that, I noticed it a bit in that final round too. I'm *hoping* it was the 7 hours of sleep over the previous 2 days, because I felt like I didn't show my best stuff in terms of tone, excitement, etc. Room for improvement for sure.

I am technically a Californian (born in San Diego) but I don't claim it. I'll let Ian be the SoCal voice on the mic.

Disc golf is way more difficult to film accurately than the layman would think. You may have all the $ of a big media machine but if your camera operator does not know the likely flight paths of the discs, tracking them on that expensive equipment will be very difficult, making the end result poorer than someone with a more standard camera but who knows really how to film DG. I have utmost respect for people on the catch cam especially.

:clap::clap::clap: spot on. The guys who cover it often are really starting to widen the gap in terms of ability to follow the disc. Great Cam Ops are crucial. Michael has set a new standard IMO. His snap zooms to get reactions after putts is next level.

 

[lyleoross]

Did anyone notice that Paul, after putting out on 12, looked at the other players, pointed at the clubhouse and ran off? Thirty seconds Paul, thirty seconds.

 

[JTacoma03]

I agree, and his sponsor should ante up for it.

In a way, SpinTV does that already with the McBeast diaries. I realize it's not exactly what you're saying but...it does qualify as a camera on him at almost all times.

 

[lyleoross]

I'm going to toss in with everyone else. Jamie and Avery did a great job on that final round. Kudos.

 

[lyleoross]

Jamie,

Get a shave man, get a shave.

 

[philstine]

Well in his defense, the Jerm thing was interesting to hear about. I mean if spotters are being ignored, why even have them? Just to help find discs? If the disc clearly flew right over his head OB and he let Jerm know it, then to me, there is no defense in marking the lie anywhere else but in the area where the spotter was standing, no matter which pro it was.

Given how wildly and indefensibly inaccurate Major Tomahawk's description of the Nate Sexton episode proved to be, why would you grant ANY credence to his description of Jerm's?

 

[lyleoross]

Given how wildly and indefensibly inaccurate Major Tomahawk's description of the Nate Sexton episode proved to be, why would you grant ANY credence to his description of Jerm's?

Because we all make mistakes, and MT has a pretty good reputation. He also had the guts to come on and apologize. An apology that Nate accepted.

I once spent half a thread calling out Ricky for saying, you know. What a donkey I was. It's hard to be perfect.

 

[armiller]

Given how wildly and indefensibly inaccurate Major Tomahawk's description of the Nate Sexton episode proved to be, why would you grant ANY credence to his description of Jerm's?

At least the Big Jerm thumber was caught on camera on the final round coverage. I didn't go back and watch or anything, but nothing jumped out at me as obviously pro- or anti-Jerm.

 

[JTacoma03]

Jamie,

Get a shave man, get a shave.

Oh yeah, Friday morning some poor soul is going to have to contend with removing 3lbs of hair from my head and face.:gross:

I expected to be behind the scenes only last week, but that sure didn't happen lol

 

[Royalhghnss]

I'm sure those guys love it when someone like Sexton throws a dull gray disc or some other dull color, lol. How much communication goes on between the camera guys? Does anybody at the tee radio ahead to the catch cam guy what the player teeing off is about to throw i.e. forehand or thumber? Like tipping pitches so the catch cam guy has a better idea of how the disc is going to behave?

OMG don't get me started on disc color. If I had my way dark red, dark blue, purple, and black would be banned from competitive play.

Sometimes we have walky talkies on to give the catch cam guy a heads up.