2017 Masters Cup presented by Innova Disc Golf

[lyleoross]

Now I get .02 cents.

We used to believe that once you paid your debt it was done. Anthon paid his debt. Should he have been on lead card? No rational reason I can see, but no reason not to either.

 

[JTacoma03]

There's a lot of slipperiness in this position. Dirt on other golfers isn't the same as what you call an "engaging story." But, for it to be a robust, accurate, engaging story, you have to report the details and not just gesture towards it.

That said, I totally get wanting to tell the stories of disc golf on the course and showing the action. There's coverage and then there's journalism. Nothing wrong with top-notch coverage, and I appreciate that you provide it for all of us. I can't say how I would cover this situation, but I would recommend having a plan for breaking news related to a player during the hours surrounding tournament play. Here's hoping a fist fight or drunken driving -- or worse -- doesn't happen. But, say so-and-so shows up to tee #1 with a shiner, I'd like to know the facts. Or, if so-and-so doesn't show up because he/she is in jail.

Thanks for the coverage.

As for the coverage itself, Ian's love of DeLa and covering DeLa seems to rub off on everyone he teams with. There's just a "kid in a candy store" aspect to Ian doing commentary on DeLa that is hard not to like. I'm partial to CCDG's "conversational" approach to commentary; this past weekend seems to be the best yet mixing of that more informal style with the more "professional" coverage Spin had attempted in the past. It struck me as the right spirit and tone for disc golf.

It's exciting to see the different channels (Spin, Jomez, CCDG, Smashboxx) finding ways to collaborate to enhance the overall product. We're all benefiting, so thanks to the people behind these choices.

This is in no way a shot at Ian (and he knows this) - but don't unintentionally damn Avery (or me) with faint praise. We all have strong ties to DeLa. I live 45min away, Avery lived in Santa Cruz for years.

Ian is a great asset to any coverage team, and a great all around human being...but give us at least a smidge of credit. We love and appreciate Santa Cruz + Masters Cup too. True story, it was the tournament that opened my eyes to the pro scene back in 2010. Another true story, I watched Avery, Nate, and Val pour the Teepad on hole 15 before Worlds in 2011. The city itself is infectious, a true gem of the tour.

As far as collaborating, there's no question in my mind that the best tournament coverage in the history of the sport has been made via the collaborations of the past 1.5 seasons. We're changing the game.

 

[SD86]

This is disc golf. Part of the appeal is leaving the real world outside the course.

So sorry, but that is NOT going to cut it. I am insulted by that statement, and everyone else should be also. Do you really think Disc Golf is about shielding criminals (which is what I just took from your statement)? No, Disc Golf is part of the real world, and should not be a "safe space" for criminals, nor should it be promoted as such a haven.

The coverage was outstanding for the tournament! I want to mention just one thing though, and maybe this isn't the forum to bring it up, but oh well...

I thought it was a little bit of a bad look to have Anthon on the feature card. I thought it was an even worse look to talk about the long awaited return of him, and then the commentators not even mention any of the controversy surrounding him. Without mentioning it at all, it made all of the fawning over him feel awkward. Idk, just felt kind of dishonest in a way.

At first I agreed with what you're saying, and I still partly do. I have been dismayed by the seemingly casual dismissal of what Anthon did that got him put in prison. A life was lost as a result of his actions, and there is nothing casual about that nor should it ever be dismissed as such.

At the same time, if Anthon has reformed and will be able to move on with his life in a productive way, then maybe some good can come of his story. If he's a good disc golf player, then he should play disc golf. He does have a lot of talent, and as someone who hates to see anything wasted, I'd hate to see his talent wasted. So I'm accepting of putting him on the feature card. But I do agree that his full story should've been told. I don't think it was "dishonest' to not tell it, but I think the better decision would've been to mention it.

 

[JTacoma03]

There's a lot of slipperiness in this position. Dirt on other golfers isn't the same as what you call an "engaging story." But, for it to be a robust, accurate, engaging story, you have to report the details and not just gesture towards it.

That said, I totally get wanting to tell the stories of disc golf on the course and showing the action. There's coverage and then there's journalism. Nothing wrong with top-notch coverage, and I appreciate that you provide it for all of us. I can't say how I would cover this situation, but I would recommend having a plan for breaking news related to a player during the hours surrounding tournament play. Here's hoping a fist fight or drunken driving -- or worse -- doesn't happen. But, say so-and-so shows up to tee #1 with a shiner, I'd like to know the facts. Or, if so-and-so doesn't show up because he/she is in jail.

Thanks for the coverage.

I totally agree it's a really thin ledge to stand on. With the advent of actual disc golf journalism sites it's taking on a life of its own. I don't know how we fall on the journalism vs production scale, so I'm just trying to play it straight while the scene grows around us. I truly am not trying to be arrogant or braggadocios, but I think it's safe to say that SpinTV has made a permanent impact on disc golf media (and we stand on the shoulders of those that came before, to be sure)...but the ultimate result of these changes hasn't fully materialized.

I definitely thought long and hard about what stance to take, but I just can't see the benefit in effectively blackballing someone. I know some will disagree, but I hope they can at least appreciate the notion that I'm trying to not have the biggest brand in disc golf media actively negatively impact the people we cover. We can debate for days about whether this is a "bad" move or not, but there's no debate in my mind that intervening in Josh's career and saying "no we refuse to cover you" is negatively impactful, and IMO Out-of-bounds.

 

[SD86]

Re: Ian/Avery coverage. I noticed that in his comments with Avery and also with Jamie, Ian would say something then say the other person's name: "blah blah blah Jamie..." or "blah blah blah Avery"... and I thought that was Ian throwing the mike to his color commentator. I was wondering if they were in the same place when doing the commentary? I remember once Ian (and Cory?) did a commentary with Simon Lizotte... they were in the USA and Simon was in Germany. If they're not together when doing the commentary, that makes it even more impressive, and makes Ian drawing out Avery's better commentaries that much more impressive.

And as always, I'm sure I'm not alone in expressing the appreciation that all of you video guys (Spin, CCDG, Jomez, etc.) do in bringing us awesome DG coverage.

 

[AndyJB]

I mean, SpinTV didnt pick the card, they just picked which card to film, right? Maybe Jamie can help me out on that one. Anthon is a piece of garbage for what he did (blast me for that all you want, I'll stand by it and say it to his face) but that card had the winner of the Am side, plus the reigning wold champ and the greatest player to ever come out of Japan on it...I think it would have been a shame to NOT feature that card, even with Anthon on it. Who knows when Thomaselli will get coverage like that again and Manabu doesnt play in the U.S. that often. Plus you have to defer to the reigning world champ...yeah McBeth smashed the course on round one, but what if he hadn't? His card wasnt exactly stacked for the first round, right?

I agree with the decision that if you had to feature a card for round one, it was that one.

 

[Orioles_Lefty]

This is in no way a shot at Ian (and he knows this) - but don't unintentionally damn Avery (or me) with faint praise. We all have strong ties to DeLa. I live 45min away, Avery lived in Santa Cruz for years.

Ian is a great asset to any coverage team, and a great all around human being...but give us at least a smidge of credit. We love and appreciate Santa Cruz + Masters Cup too. True story, it was the tournament that opened my eyes to the pro scene back in 2010. Another true story, I watched Avery, Nate, and Val pour the Teepad on hole 15 before Worlds in 2011. The city itself is infectious, a true gem of the tour.

As far as collaborating, there's no question in my mind that the best tournament coverage in the history of the sport has been made via the collaborations of the past 1.5 seasons. We're changing the game.

No offense intended. Perhaps Avery's raised game came from the same place: a love for DeLa. I watched CCDG before any other channels when I got into disc golf, so I'm biased.

And I agree with you about the past 1.5 seasons.

 

[Orioles_Lefty]

I totally agree it's a really thin ledge to stand on. With the advent of actual disc golf journalism sites it's taking on a life of its own. I don't know how we fall on the journalism vs production scale, so I'm just trying to play it straight while the scene grows around us. I truly am not trying to be arrogant or braggadocios, but I think it's safe to say that SpinTV has made a permanent impact on disc golf media (and we stand on the shoulders of those that came before, to be sure)...but the ultimate result of these changes hasn't fully materialized.

I definitely thought long and hard about what stance to take, but I just can't see the benefit in effectively blackballing someone. I know some will disagree, but I hope they can at least appreciate the notion that I'm trying to not have the biggest brand in disc golf media actively negatively impact the people we cover. We can debate for days about whether this is a "bad" move or not, but there's no debate in my mind that intervening in Josh's career and saying "no we refuse to cover you" is negatively impactful, and IMO Out-of-bounds.

I don't think Anton should have been blackballed. I'm thinking particularly of the pre-tourney interview video. I think it could have used more context.

Given that disc golf news journalism exists and continues to grows, there might be a point in the not distant future where you could interview one of these journalists about the relevant news as part of your coverage. With that approach, you leave the news to the journalists (and I don't mean that as a shot at you/your production style) while providing a service to your viewers.

 

[Orioles_Lefty]

I mean, SpinTV didnt pick the card, they just picked which card to film, right? Maybe Jamie can help me out on that one. Anthon is a piece of garbage for what he did (blast me for that all you want, I'll stand by it and say it to his face) but that card had the winner of the Am side, plus the reigning wold champ and the greatest player to ever come out of Japan on it...I think it would have been a shame to NOT feature that card, even with Anthon on it. Who knows when Thomaselli will get coverage like that again and Manabu doesnt play in the U.S. that often. Plus you have to defer to the reigning world champ...yeah McBeth smashed the course on round one, but what if he hadn't? His card wasnt exactly stacked for the first round, right?

I agree with the decision that if you had to feature a card for round one, it was that one.

Paul and Ricky should be on every first round feature card until something changes in the results.

 

[lyleoross]

This is in no way a shot at Ian (and he knows this) - but don't unintentionally damn Avery (or me) with faint praise. We all have strong ties to DeLa. I live 45min away, Avery lived in Santa Cruz for years.

Ian is a great asset to any coverage team, and a great all around human being...but give us at least a smidge of credit. We love and appreciate Santa Cruz + Masters Cup too. True story, it was the tournament that opened my eyes to the pro scene back in 2010. Another true story, I watched Avery, Nate, and Val pour the Teepad on hole 15 before Worlds in 2011. The city itself is infectious, a true gem of the tour.

As far as collaborating, there's no question in my mind that the best tournament coverage in the history of the sport has been made via the collaborations of the past 1.5 seasons. We're changing the game.

Actually, Ian deferred to the strong knowledge base of Jamie and Avery. That may be why people liked this so much. I particularly like Avery's history of names, contributors, and change.

No faint praise, this was a win!

 

[lyleoross]

In the scope of things tolerated by, and promoted by sports news and news, Anthon is a tempest in a teacup. I was reminded of Roger Ailes' infamous memo circa 1970, where he promised to deliver the country to the Republican party via propaganda that was news based.

Today television news is watched more often than people read newspapers, than people listen to the radio, than people read or gather any other form of communication. The reason: People are lazy. With television you just sit—watch—listen. The thinking is done for you.

Roger Ailes, From the Nixon Presidential library

 

[spinachd]

I don't see the controversy of having Anthon on the lead card. There will be a whole lot of sports you can't watch if hold all the players to high moral conduct for all their history. People want to see the best players.

Paul should have been on there too though. Seems like whomever is not on the camera first round (between Paul and Ricky) goes off so it may be truly influencing results.

 

[Royalhghnss]

Re: Ian/Avery coverage. I noticed that in his comments with Avery and also with Jamie, Ian would say something then say the other person's name: "blah blah blah Jamie..." or "blah blah blah Avery"... and I thought that was Ian throwing the mike to his color commentator. I was wondering if they were in the same place when doing the commentary? I remember once Ian (and Cory?) did a commentary with Simon Lizotte... they were in the USA and Simon was in Germany. If they're not together when doing the commentary, that makes it even more impressive, and makes Ian drawing out Avery's better commentaries that much more impressive.

And as always, I'm sure I'm not alone in expressing the appreciation that all of you video guys (Spin, CCDG, Jomez, etc.) do in bringing us awesome DG coverage.

We did it in person the saying their name thing is a habit from doing it over Skype like we do so often.

Avery is a great color guy, he's got infinity disc golf knowledge and a great personality. He's an incredibly nice guy to boot. Really enjoyed working with him

 

[BrotherDave]

Well apparently we need the disc golf version of Skip Bayless and Steven A. Smith screaming at each other over unimportant stuff like whether it was bad taste to film Anthon so that the production guys can just focus on recording and giving us great tourney action without soiling their profession.

I can be a pompous ass like Skip, who wants to be my Screamin' A.?

 

[brutalbrutus]

 

[sextondisc]

Random stuff from this weekend:

The course set-up at DeLaveaga has been the same for the last 5 years. It's 24 holes with hole #'s 20-24 omitted. There have been 4 times when -11 has been achieved. Paul's -15 destroyed that record.

I talked to Paul before his first round. Another guy just blurts out, "Are you going to win this tourney" and Paul, without hesitation, said "Yes!".

The poison oak was bad in places where you shouldn't throw you shots. This is the first year that I can remember where the TD's allowed relief from the PO. After you play DeLa, it's a tradition to go swimming in the Pacific. That will clean off your PO oils.

Nate Sexton's death putt on hole 6 squirted OB and landed on the road in the first or second round. It was obviously on the road, but he cried and complained like a baby until the TD came over and ruled that since you couldn't see the road under his disc (it was on dirt that slides up on the road when people slide OB) the TD ruled his disc safe. That was the worst call I've ever seen at a tourney. I've been where NS was and there is no way that I'm going to ask for a call. It was clearly on the road. Later, I find out that other players landing in the same spot took OB's like men/pros. I lost respect of NS right there. Paul couldn't believe he got the the call and I saw his face. Paul was rolling his eyes. The next morning, the TD had a broom and swept all of the dirt off of the road.

Yesterday, during the 3rd round, Big Jerm threw a thumber on a short hole and landed on the green that was over a hill for an OB. When Jerm got to his disc and was told where his thumber was last in bounds, he also did the entitlement argument that his disc was "no way" that far left. His cardmates gave him the call and he banged a 60-footer for par. After the hole I walked up to a friend that was up on the green at the time of the throw and that the throw had gone directly over his head...30 feet to the left of the mark that Big Jerm lobbied and cried about until he got it. Very sad professionalism was what I witnessed by Big/Sexy.
\
On a side note, I won my division by one shot by shooting a last round -4 on DeLa with no scores larger than a 3. I'm glad I didn't have to play the ball golf set-up. I definitely prefer the old school course.

Haha! What a strange way to see that situation with my putt! I too thought it was strange that the TDs said "don't dig for asphalt, if dirt connects to your disc it is safe". I admitted to my group that I thought the shot deserved to be out of bounds, but that based on my understanding of the course rules it was safe. It turned out that I was correct, I played the hole out both ways and I was not emotional or crying in any way. Pretty interesting the different ways people can see situations.

The worst thing I saw out there was some spectator blocking Big Jerm's roller on hole #16! Anybody know who that was? Get out of the way man!

 

[BrotherDave]

Oh yeah, I wanted to mention that the Christopher Watson guy looked like a solid player, had some nice rips out there.

 

[Consult20]

Haha! What a strange way to see that situation with my putt! I too thought it was strange that the TDs said "don't dig for asphalt, if dirt connects to your disc it is safe". I admitted to my group that I thought the shot deserved to be out of bounds, but that based on my understanding of the course rules it was safe. It turned out that I was correct, I played the hole out both ways and I was not emotional or crying in any way. Pretty interesting the different ways people can see situations.

The worst thing I saw out there was some spectator blocking Big Jerm's roller on hole #16! Anybody know who that was? Get out of the way man!

Exactly Nate, I saw the video and you were very matter-of-fact about it, just wanting to be sure you were playing it correctly. And the TD posted a video confirming the disc was in bounds based on the unique DeLa rule. Also, welcome to DGCR!

 

[bncool]

Random stuff from this weekend:

Nate Sexton's death putt on hole 6 squirted OB and landed on the road in the first or second round. It was obviously on the road, but he cried and complained like a baby until the TD came over and ruled that since you couldn't see the road under his disc (it was on dirt that slides up on the road when people slide OB) the TD ruled his disc safe. That was the worst call I've ever seen at a tourney. I've been where NS was and there is no way that I'm going to ask for a call. It was clearly on the road. Later, I find out that other players landing in the same spot took OB's like men/pros. I lost respect of NS right there. Paul couldn't believe he got the the call and I saw his face. Paul was rolling his eyes. The next morning, the TD had a broom and swept all of the dirt off of the road.

Haha! What a strange way to see that situation with my putt! I too thought it was strange that the TDs said "don't dig for asphalt, if dirt connects to your disc it is safe". I admitted to my group that I thought the shot deserved to be out of bounds, but that based on my understanding of the course rules it was safe. It turned out that I was correct, I played the hole out both ways and I was not emotional or crying in any way. Pretty interesting the different ways people can see situations.

Hard to imagine that being the worst call you've ever seen, especially given that it was the only call within the rules given to every player before the round (including yourself). There is no digging allowed at Dela to determine a boundary line. It's either surrounded by asphalt entirely or it's not. It's unfortunate that we have so many compromised ob boundaries along the road, but we are not allowed to paint or put rope lines along the road due to city restrictions and complaints from residents further down the road. As a reasonable solution, we have used the "no digging" rule for years, despite our reservations. The fact that every player plays the same course with the same rules makes it a non-issue, as long as everyone follows the rules as Nate did. Due to the heavy spill over in that area specifically, we addressed it before the next round to make it less ambiguous in general.

Given my proximity to most of the top players in the sport over the last several years as TD of the Masters Cup, I can safely say that Nate is one of the last people that I would ever accuse of 'crying like a baby'. In fact, his exact words to me were "I know this would be out almost anywhere else, but with the rules we were given I believe it's safe." He happened to be 100% correct.

 

[brutalbrutus]

Haha! What a strange way to see that situation with my putt! I too thought it was strange that the TDs said "don't dig for asphalt, if dirt connects to your disc it is safe". I admitted to my group that I thought the shot deserved to be out of bounds, but that based on my understanding of the course rules it was safe. It turned out that I was correct, I played the hole out both ways and I was not emotional or crying in any way. Pretty interesting the different ways people can see situations.

The worst thing I saw out there was some spectator blocking Big Jerm's roller on hole #16! Anybody know who that was? Get out of the way man!

Don't worry Nate. I guess some people consider that knowing the rules and voicing your opinion of them, equates to crying and complaining like a baby. Typical DGCR reaction but don't let that influence your decision to participate here. I think it would be awesome if more top level guys joined in on some of these discussions. Just remember, don't feed the trolls..